Wine Hack That Changes Everything With Michael Fors of The Jazz Experience

In this episode of the Thirsty Thursdays Podcast, I talked with Michael Fors, founder of Liquid Jazz Experience a new way of thinking how to experience your wine while it opens up. Very Innovative Product and perfect for an elevated Restaurant Experience! 👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂 😁

 🎥 Watch on YouTube https://youtu.be/efObWn3pG5c

This episode isn’t about wine… it’s about experience, community, and unlocking better answers through simple innovation.

Michael Fors built something that changes how we experience flavor in real time—and the results are wild.

💡 Key Takeaways:

•  🍷 Same bottle, different experience (data doesn’t lie) 
•  🔬 Science + analytics unlock flavor
•  ⏱ 4 minutes = massive impact
•  🤝 Community drives the magic
•  🚀 Experience > product in today’s sales environment

👉 CTA: Want better growth and smarter decisions? Start thinking experience-first. Subscribe for more real-time insights.

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!!  Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Transcript

Jessie Ott (00:00)
There's a very big difference between these two. And also same bottle, completely different in enjoyment.

Michael Fors (00:03)
Same bottle, right, same bottle, same everything.

Jessie Ott (00:08)
Honestly, whereas this one's it's more tart and it's less of the experience and tasting all the different components of the wine and then having it linger. It doesn't do any of that like it does with this one. It's almost it's a completely different experience, actually. Now, if you're eating it with food, maybe maybe those are muted out a little bit, but

Michael Fors (00:24)
Thank you. Yes.

Jessie Ott (00:30)
not just drinking it straight like this.

Michael Fors (00:33)
Because if you think about a bottle of wine, I mean, it's a living thing. know, when you buy the bottle, no matter what year you buy, is, I mean, it's obviously very, very, very slow, but it's constantly changing. It's constant. It's still in its fermentation. It just keeps going. Obviously, it slows way, way, way, way down from, you know, from the beginning fermentation, but

Jessie Ott (00:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Michael Fors (01:00)
And all those gases are built up in the bottle. And it's just that little space of the cork. You pull that cork out and those gas like, thank you. It's like the genie. We're letting the genie out of the bottle now.

Jessie Ott (01:08)
Hahaha!

GD out of the bottle.

Hello everybody and welcome to Thursday Thursdays. I am Jessie Ott and I have an exciting guest today, a very different type of guest today. I'm very excited about it. Michael Fors of this amazing Liquid Jazz Experience for those of you that aren't ⁓ on the ⁓ web watching. I have a box that he sent me of these really awesome glasses.

And we've got this really cool decanter that we're going to get into the science and the enjoyment and experience behind it. So welcome, Michael.

Michael Fors (02:18)
Thank you. Thank you very much. Very excited to be here.

Jessie Ott (02:22)
Yay! Likewise, we're learning that more more people are kind of finding each other in the podcasting world, right? It's kind of fun.

Michael Fors (02:32)
It's a blast. I never listened to podcasts, but I kind of pivoted in the business world and someone suggested podcasting and I've been on this, I think my 12th podcast and I definitely want to plan to start my own. It's just too much fun.

Jessie Ott (02:49)
Yeah, it is fun. I love it. It gives me an outlet to speak to people from all over the world and it reaches people from all over to all over the world. really is an incredible, I feel very lucky to be able to tell people's amazing stories because everybody has their own journey. So where are you calling from? That is the fun part.

Michael Fors (03:08)
Yes, correct. yep, and that's the fun part.

Yep, Sturbridge,

Jessie Ott (03:16)
And that

is...

Michael Fors (03:19)
Yeah, in Massachusetts, so we're right on the Connecticut border with central Mass. So where the 84 connects with the Mass Pike and Route 20. so we're pretty much right in the middle, but southern middle. So we touch, yeah, we touch Connecticut.

Jessie Ott (03:36)
Southern Middle. Okay.

Okay, very cool. All right. Does Connecticut provide any tax benefits for any kind of shopping or anything?

Michael Fors (03:41)
Yeah.

Yes, clothing is better in Connecticut, but gas is better in Massachusetts.

Jessie Ott (03:53)
So I grew up in northeast Iowa and in Iowa there's no tax on food. In Minnesota there's no tax on clothes and in Wisconsin there's no tax on booze.

Michael Fors (04:04)
my God,

what a perfect spot to live.

Jessie Ott (04:07)
Yeah, and we were only like 40 minutes from either state, not too far. So that's pretty funny.

Michael Fors (04:13)
Yep, it works.

Jessie Ott (04:14)
Always good

to have, always good to be a, know all those nuances, save a buck here and there.

Michael Fors (04:19)
Yeah, and

I know we should be helping out, you know, taxes and everything, but there's something that gives you a deep joy when you don't have to pay them.

Jessie Ott (04:28)
Yeah, agreed. 100%. So are you from this area, Massachusetts?

Michael Fors (04:33)
Yeah,

pretty much born and raised, know, born one town over, raised two towns over. And then when we got married, we ended up in this town because locally, this was the least expensive place to find a house. So, you know, we bought our first house. was twenty nine thousand five hundred dollars. It's changed a lot since then. But.

Jessie Ott (04:54)
It's

true, it's a lot. Yeah.

Michael Fors (04:55)
Yeah,

that house now, well, we did additions and stuff like that, but that house sold for almost 400,000 recently, same house. So anyway, but you know, that's why we moved here and we got lucky. know, the town kind of exploded. There's been a good growth surge and a big part of it is because where we're located right on two major highways, we're pretty much an hour from Boston.

45 minutes from Springfield, Mass. Providence, Rhode Island's an hour. Hartford's about a half hour. So it's an ideal location for sales reps. Sales rep, yeah, sales reps love.

Jessie Ott (05:28)
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize

you were that close to Boston.

Michael Fors (05:35)
Yeah, it's hour on the pike, what we call a pike, know, the interstate or whatever.

Jessie Ott (05:39)
Right.

Yeah, toll. Yeah, we know tolls in Texas and Florida, that's for sure. Very familiar with those.

Michael Fors (05:43)
Yeah, yeah, every so many miles they catch you.

So anyway, yeah, this

is where it is and this is where this all got started.

Jessie Ott (05:56)
So tell me about how you got interested in wine and how you kind of got into what we're going to talk about here in a minute.

Michael Fors (06:05)
okay. Yeah. The whole thing with the wine was we were out one at a fair in town. Well, it's in Connecticut. Woodstock. I mean, this year, I think it's their hundred and seventy fifth annual agricultural fair. So we're there with friends and, you know, eating all the junk food. And so my friend Tony says, said, what are you doing Monday? He said, my dad's racking the homemade wine. So like, that sounds like fun. So I went down and

You know, we go down in his dad's basement and they had the cheese and the super sata and the crackers and the olives and he's pressing the, well, he's pressing. So he's pressing the grapes. So we're trying the new wine and we're drinking the old wine. at the end, like, Tony, this is a blast. So much fun. So his dad says, there's still a week left to get grapes because the California grapes that they get trucked in.

Jessie Ott (06:51)
Thank

Michael Fors (06:58)
So said, you have about a week left if you want to buy some. He said, my equipment's available. If you want to come down, I'll help you make a batch of wine. So I did. That was 25 years ago. And we made a batch of Zinfandel. his dad, Urquilino Staffieri, born in Italy, didn't come over here till his early 20s. And he did the crushing. He was watching over the fermentation and everything. You know, I'm there helping, but.

And each step was just so interesting because I never knew. You know, you go out to eat, you grab a glass of wine. was never really into wine. I mean, I always bought the least expensive one on the menu. So, um, I get it. I get it back. do the racking. did the secondary fermentation at my house and I did the racking and bottling at my house. And I got lucky. I had a really good year that year. So I'm sharing. Oh, it was just.

Jessie Ott (07:50)
⁓ awesome.

Michael Fors (07:54)
It worked out perfect. So I'm sharing and sharing, just giving bottles away. so a couple of friends said, hey, I want to make wine with you next year. I'm like, I can't ask Mr. Staffieri for that. So I went out and bought some used equipment from different people in the area that were kind of winding down. And we made it. We made our own batch. And there was three of us, Gary and Kenny and myself.

It was a riot. mean, the first year we made it, we had no idea. There was no Google or anything back.

Jessie Ott (08:28)
Right! Right!

Michael Fors (08:30)
You know,

so we were going on assumption that this is how it's done. So we, we start crushing and we didn't have the right equipment. We didn't have the right, the crusher we had was a hand crank. So you put the grapes in this little basket and you're cracking. what, with the new equipment now, which would have been maybe a half hour project was seven hours. We were exhausted. mean, great.

Jessie Ott (08:42)
Hahaha

yeah.

Michael Fors (08:57)
And then we dig it in with our hands to try and get as many stems out as we could. It was absolutely hysterical. So then I was in the wine cellar that I have. And, you know, I put the yeast in that night and it starts fermenting. So then we go upstairs, go to bed, get up the next morning to go back because you have to turn it every day a couple of times a day so it doesn't start rotting. And I walked downstairs in the wine cellar, I opened the door and there had to be a

Billion fruit flies I'm talking. my god. They're everywhere So I go upstairs and I call Tony I said hey, I don't know what I did wrong. There's a billion fruit flies So he says I wonder how they got out from underneath the covers I said you never told me I had to cover it. He goes. if you don't cover you're gonna get a ton of fruit flies. I'm going well like Okay, I know that now

So anyway, it was a learning curve the whole way. And that year we made the big three. We made Cabrillo and Zin. And then we made a Muscat, that white sweet wine. And then at the end we had a lot of extra stuff and we started blending and everything. Again, we had no idea what we were doing. So then we got to the point with the racking. And that's pretty much just the cleansing process.

Jessie Ott (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Michael Fors (10:13)
where we would stick just the siphon tube in there, start the siphon like when we were kids, we'd steal gas out of our parents' cars. So you get the siphon going and you just pour it in. So as you're pouring, you're sipping and tasting. this one Thursday night ended up being the best night for all three of us to get together. So this one Thursday, one of my daughter's friends happened to stop at our store. We owned a store.

And he drove out, you know, 45 minutes just to buy paint from us because he was our daughter's friend. So he asked Anthony, our son, who was in the store, you know, where's your dad? he's down racking wine. Go see him. So he comes down. So, you know, we're sipping, we're sipping. Now you're feeling good. And he goes, are you going to do this next week? You're like, yeah, why don't we? And then 26 years later, we're still doing it on Thursday nights. So Thursday, Thursday.

Jessie Ott (11:07)
Wow.

Michael Fors (11:07)
yeah, when I saw your your title like this is perfect. So that's how I got into wine Yep So and then

Jessie Ott (11:09)
You

That's great. Okay. Interesting.

And then an accidental happy hour.

Michael Fors (11:21)
Correct, exactly. And the fun thing is, I we've had, I used to have a book, and I don't know why I stopped having people sign in, but it would be anybody who came for the first time, you just wrote a little bit about your experience and you signed it. And again, for some reason, I just stopped doing it. I don't know why. And we were looking at, we found that book and we did a quick count and there's over 400 names.

in that book of people who have stopped. That was, I stopped at 20 years. And it was like, oh, you know, like we meet now and then you guys happen to be coming up to Boston. You go, Hey, I'm going to be going through Sturbridge on a Thursday. Stop it. And a lot of it was, yep. A lot of it was that. I mean, we have people from Australia and Spain and South America, Mexico, Canada, you know, just

Jessie Ott (12:04)
That's cool.

Michael Fors (12:14)
people that are visiting friends in the area and they're just like, hey, you know what, we're going out to eat. Let's just stop at wine night either before or after, have a glass of wine, say hi and off they go. So there's, you know, there's no rules or anything. I mean, I'll have three people tonight that are just gonna have water. We have two that are coming that are just gonna have beer. So it's, we call it wine night. I mean, don't have, first of all, you don't have to drink and second, you don't have to drink wine. So, and then Scott's coming.

Jessie Ott (12:43)
It's just a gathering.

Michael Fors (12:45)
just a gathering. Yep. And then you hear stories and we have, you know, people that are struggling week to week. And then we have multimillionaires and doctors and lawyers, and we have different religions, different ethnic backgrounds. I mean, it's a blend beyond blend. It's so much fun. And then you hear just different stories, different life stories. And, you know, as much as people are willing to share,

And it's just so interesting. mean, some nights, you know, we start usually around six-ish. And sometimes it's 9.30, 10 o'clock, and we're down there. Someone will look and go, my God, it's 10.30. And the reason I kept, we switched to Fridays for a couple of weeks, but people weren't going home. So I had to go back to Thursdays because people work on Friday.

Yep. Yes, exactly.

Jessie Ott (13:36)
And they should behave.

Michael Fors (13:39)
out of all these years, there's only been two people that needed a ride home because they had too much. And luckily they were with somebody ⁓ and only three that I asked not to come back. And that's it. Yep. Because it's like, you know, no, it's not bad. You know, we don't we don't talk politics and we don't talk religion. That's always the bad.

Jessie Ott (13:49)
Yeah.

That's not bad.

Michael Fors (14:04)
And if somebody starts I have no problem going. Nope, Jesse. Nope We don't go we don't go there

Jessie Ott (14:09)
We're

not red and blue here. We're just friends.

Michael Fors (14:13)
You don't know. Yeah,

yeah, that's it. So that's how that's how.

Jessie Ott (14:18)
Yeah, well,

it's you're not going to change people's minds and people get really irritated and it can just turn something so magical and fun into something that's not.

Michael Fors (14:29)
Correct, exactly. mean, what? No, because there's so many things that don't matter that what does it matter? I mean, if you're nice to me, I'm going to be nice to you. I don't care about anything else. You know, where you're from, how you live your life, what religion you are, what you do for a job. I don't care. You know, I just enjoy your company. And that's pretty much that's.

Jessie Ott (14:30)
It's not worth it.

company.

Michael Fors (14:55)
the wine night. And it's fun now with some of the regulars, you know, that have, you know, at least a couple of times a month that show up, somebody will start something and they'll go, yeah, no, that's, you know, so it doesn't even fall. They'll bring a friend and they'll warn them when they come in. So yeah, don't go here and don't go here. Just, just enjoy. And we get a lot of people that come back because of that. It's just sit and you've, you know, I know the dynamics of most of the people that come.

And the fun part for me is just watching some of them who I know how uncomfortable they are in certain situations, but they're so comfortable and relaxed here. And it's awesome. Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome. So anyway.

Jessie Ott (15:38)
that's great.

I love it.

And is it all different ages?

Michael Fors (15:44)
Yeah, pretty much. it's I I made a mistake a couple of weeks ago. The girl that came, she works at a place where I buy my produce and not produce, but deli stuff. And I just assumed she was older. Outside, poor wine. She's sitting there sipping the wine and so I was going to say, oh, so you're going to stay working there or is this, you know, a post college job? says, no, I'm a senior in high school. Oh, okay.

Jessie Ott (16:10)
⁓ shoot. ⁓

Michael Fors (16:13)
Sweet, goes,

don't worry. My parents, yeah, no, I'm gonna worry. But yeah, but so that's the range. And then my mother-in-law comes once in a while, she's 93.

Jessie Ott (16:22)
wow, that's cool.

Michael Fors (16:23)
Yeah, and most of them are like tonight I'm going to guess will be if John comes, he's probably 35 and then there's going to be 70, 75. So it'll be a 40 year range there tonight. And then you watch everybody just talking. John will come sometimes and he's got, he's a new homeowner and he'll come in and his big thing sometimes is I'm having a problem with this at my house. Does anybody know about

Jessie Ott (16:38)
That's great.

Michael Fors (16:52)
wiring or plumbing or something. I want to do it myself and then inevitably somebody there has had that problem because we've all owned homes and the whole night's about solving the problem and then we'll start like, know, they'll go, Carlos, what are you talking about? You can't do that. Well, I did that myself. You know, and then you get that banter back and forth and it's a ton of fun.

Jessie Ott (16:54)
you

you

that's really cool. Now do people bring their own wine and beer?

Michael Fors (17:22)
Yeah, like Carlos has a little vineyard in his yard. You know, we go there every year and pick. It's usually the second week of September, I think it is. Yeah, September, October. Anyway, and we go pick. He's the one that was born on St. Mike's, the island from Portugal. And he came over here when he was 10. And he's going to be one of my first interviews of my podcast because it still blows my mind.

Carlos is late 50s now. came over here when 10, when he was 15. At St. Mike's, he didn't have electricity in his house until he was 10 years old. And I'm like, Carlos. He goes, yeah, most people in my town just didn't have electricity. I go, what was that like? goes, it was dark. I don't know. do you mean? was it know, correct. Exactly. And it's just.

Jessie Ott (18:07)
I didn't know any different.

Michael Fors (18:13)
All those are the stories that people, because when someone new comes in, I'll tell them about that and they'll look at them like, you never electricity? mean, you we have 90 year olds here in the US that had electricity their whole life. And here he is, you know.

Jessie Ott (18:31)
A room? Or did you call it a basement?

Michael Fors (18:33)
Yeah, we live in a commercial building. the basement part is, you know, there's garage doors down there. I have tenants that rent space down there, but I kept the room in the back. the night.

Jessie Ott (18:45)
Okay, so like your 93

year old mother-in-law isn't walking down a flight of stairs to get there. Okay.

Michael Fors (18:51)
Correct. Yeah, yeah. Through the bulkhead

with her head down. No, she can walk in level ground. There's a bathroom down there and a little kitchen area. yeah. And the real nice thing is, you know, having these people here, they're like, I can't believe you have people over every Thursday. I just went down and did the dishes from last week today because it's not technically part of the house. You know, it has its own bathroom. It has its own little kitchen area. So if I don't have time to go

Jessie Ott (18:59)
Okay.

Nice.

Michael Fors (19:21)
clean out the glasses or empty the glasses out. They just sit until I have time. So it's not like they're in our house. You know, that would be tough.

Jessie Ott (19:26)
Yeah.

But is your house connected to this building?

Michael Fors (19:33)
Yeah, we're on the third floor of the commercial building, and that's on the basement part of it. So we just go down four. Yeah, and everything fell into place. It really had.

Jessie Ott (19:40)
Gotcha. okay. So it's very convenient for you. That's just

cool. Now, are you still making wines?

Michael Fors (19:49)
Yes, this year we tried something different. I'm going to go back. We've had real good luck. We call them the big three because Caberlo and Zinn when we started. I mean, there were plenty of other wines, but those were the ones everybody talked about. We've done Zinn every year because that one's always ready first. Zinfandel seems to be more drinkable quick. The cabs take, you know, an extra year to wait. But this year we did a Cab Frank.

Ruby Cab, I don't one we didn't even, I didn't remember the name of it, a new one. And they came out okay, but you when you get used to it, you get used to it. And we did the Zinn. So, you know, we'll rack them a couple more times. The largest group we had, was 10 of us one year that made the wine. So then I used the oak barrels for those. So we made 240 gallons that year, and then we just divvy it up.

Jessie Ott (20:16)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Michael Fors (20:44)
But this year there was just three of us. People went to Florida, people passed. So there was, we were down to three. So we just made, what do we make, 60 gallons this year. So, and hope that it lasts. So I'm just finishing up last year's now. I still have maybe a case and a half of last year's left of the different varieties. Because when people come, you just share. mean, you know, we...

Jessie Ott (20:58)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, if

I had known that, would have said, hey, me your Zen. That would have been fun.

Michael Fors (21:17)
Yeah, we could... I didn't even think of that. Darn, I shouldn't... Okay, next time.

Jessie Ott (21:22)
Next time, okay. Yeah. Well, so how did this new jazz experience, how did this come about? I guess did it kind of come about within your happy hours in the basement?

Michael Fors (21:33)
Pretty much, yeah. What happened was, I'm a big fan of decanting. I've always felt the need to decant to red. I don't like that hard acidity, the hard tannins, the sulfites and all that stuff. So I would open a couple of bottles every Thursday, you know, three hours before, because I used to own a business in this property. So I was here. So I go down, open the bottles at, three o'clock.

and let them, so now we're sitting down and you stop by, everybody stops by and we're having a sip, having a sip, and then a car would pull in, a car would pull in. Well, now we're out and I go open another bottle and it doesn't taste anything like we were drinking. So I'm like, there has to be something. So I went online and they have, there's one that you put the decanter on a base and it just rocks it all over the place. And then there's another one where you put a little pill in there and there's

It's there's a magnetic base to it and it spins it creates this big vortex and and it just it was just so aggressive with the wine. Tony's dad, Ercolino, that made it. He came to a couple of wine nights when we started doing them. And Kenny was like I said, we would just stick a siphon tube and we draw and then we'd fill our glasses and then put the tube back in. So Kenny was filling Mr. Staffieri's glass one night.

Jessie Ott (22:54)
Yes.

Michael Fors (22:57)
and he spills not even a sip and Mr. Staffieri slams the table and said, if you don't respect the wine, don't make it. And the place was silent and we're looking at each other like, the heck did we get into here? We're just making wine, right? But he brought that all with him from Italy. He's done this his whole life. He was in his mid 80s and that's how we felt about the wine. So I'm like, you know what? I am going to respect the wine. So that was a

a big part of me making it. So I always wanted something to gently rock the wine, to do something to it. So we like to vacation on the North Shore of Massachusetts, Gloucester, Massachusetts. That's where that Oceans 11 was filmed. And they have just a few beaches there. It's not overly sandy, just a lot of rocky shore, not cliffs, but. So we stay at this place called the Bass Rocks Inn.

And they have, they're across the street from the water, but they own a little patch of land across the street. They have four Adirondack chairs there. So every time I go, bring my, I pour my wine in a thermos because I don't want to bring glass by the rocks and a plastic wine glass. And I just go sit in that chair and just watch the water. This one day, five years ago, it was beautiful. It was slack tide right in between both.

tides, were no waves, it was flat. The lobster guy happens to be pulling traps right in front of me and I'm sipping my wine and the sun's beating down on me. And then all of a sudden the tide changes and the waves start crashing on the rocks and I start to smell the ocean. I smell the seaweed, the salt air, and I'm like, huh, just the water splashing on the rocks opened up the ocean.

I'm like, oh my God, that's awesome. So now that's here, that's in the back of my mind. So that winter, a friend of mine, John and I, walking down, we live by a river here in Sturbridge. And we're walking along the river and it's a cold winter. The river's frozen over, except this one spot. It was probably 18 inches wide, three feet long. And the water in the river is rolling over a series of rocks and a low branches there and the icicles are forming on the branch.

So I said to my friend, John, said, hey, look at that. And he goes, yeah. So I'm going, but the water rolling over the rocks is the mist it's creating is forming the icicles. So he's go, yeah, yeah, I it does that all the time. Okay. So now I'm thinking if I could roll the wine over something that would open up the wine, like the ocean splashing on the rocks.

Jessie Ott (25:46)
Right.

Michael Fors (25:47)
So I knew a guy who owned a sheet metal shop. So I went down and out of food grade stainless. I just drew up this rudimentary. It just was a U-shaped thing and it had ridges on the bottom. And one wine night, there was five of us there. And Johnny happened to be one of the guys there. And I said, look, I don't know if this is gonna work. This is my idea from that story. So I poured some in all of our glasses and then I rocked it.

And we tried it and lo and behold, there was a dramatic change in the wine. And I'm like, oh my God, it worked. So then, you it was like, oh, you know, shock tank and you're going to do this, you're going to do this. And then I always retired and bored. So I talked to my wife, we had a little bit put away and I said, you know what? I, I'd like to try it. I've had a bunch of ideas I never did. So I found a launch company local and they hate me, helped me source it out and

Lo and behold, I have my, I have, I'm down to like.

1600 decanters now and glasses and I've been out promoting it and selling it and I absolutely love doing the shows because you'll see today you know the difference that it makes. So that's how this came about. So be ready in retirement you're gonna do something.

Jessie Ott (27:01)
Right.

I hope so. So

did you create the decanter and the glasses together or did one come before the other?

Michael Fors (27:14)
No, I did them together. knew, because we're a rocking motion. not, I mean, we are so bucking the system. I mean, I'm having a difficult time with, well, and I did hear in one of your shows that you are Somali, you're working, are you a Somali-ay or you're still working on becoming a Somali?

Jessie Ott (27:31)
I mean, I'm W set level three in mine. I don't really know what constitutes a sommelier in this, in the overall sense. Anybody really can being entitled when I guess, but no, I don't have all the... If I were to continue, I would have to take level four and then study for it for two more years. So I'm still three years at least at a minimum away.

Michael Fors (27:48)
Yes, it's.

Okay, well now this is good right now because when you become a sommelier you're going to change. Yeah, they're brutal. I mean, not all of them.

Jessie Ott (28:00)
Hehehehehe

Yeah, I

wanted to do it for a really long time and I was this close to enrolling in level four. I was actually going to do it and I got COVID and I lost all my sense of taste and smell. And so I was like, and I'm going to spend what on this and not be able to taste any of the wines? I was like, no, not doing it. So it wasn't a path that went down, but I do love the nerd. I don't like, I don't understand a lot of the

the agricultural terms and this, that and the other, that's a little bit difficult for me, but I do love the geography, the soil types and the slopes and the water and the weather and all the things. It's pretty cool.

Michael Fors (28:46)
It is amazing how much it changes there was did you ever hear of Vincent enter his show is via spavino it's if you ever have a free time, which you probably won't but He's got a great show and he did one he goes all over the world and He had this one Where they had I don't remember what type of wine it was But just from that vineyard they had it from the same

Jessie Ott (28:54)
Mm-mm.

Michael Fors (29:12)
type of wine from three different sections of the vineyard. And the taste in each was different. Same grapes, same grower, same winemaker, everything. Just the different angle of the land, the type of soil, the amount of sun. And I'm watching that going, my God, who knew? But it does, but you're right. That's a real fun part of

Jessie Ott (29:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, it really is. It's fun. I really enjoyed studying that part. But yeah, but I used to be real into wine, so now I'm just kind of into all of it as a, you know, with what I'm doing right now. But I still always have a passion for wine.

Michael Fors (29:57)
It is fun. And again, for me, it's the social aspect that wine brings. You know, I've been on a couple other podcasts and they're like, you know, what's your favorite one? If money was no object, what would you buy? I'm like, I don't know that much about wine. I drink my wine. I like my wine. You know, we don't put the, we don't put sulfates in and, you know, because we only do it to last a couple of years. You know, there's no reason for us to go more because

Jessie Ott (30:13)
Right. Right.

Nice.

Michael Fors (30:23)
As long as we have enough to finish this year, then next last year's would be ready. You know what I mean? So we're always so we got to the point where I have enough pretty much to take me a full year. So it works out great. I'm more into the social aspect of wine. I'm more into just enjoying the glass of wine. Like when we do wine tastings down in the wine cellar, we're pretty much, I like that. And, I don't like that. That's, you know, we're not we don't talk about.

Jessie Ott (30:30)
Yeah.

Michael Fors (30:52)
flavor profile or try and guess the grape or any of that. It's the social aspect that I use this for. but you know, yeah, I would like to do that. Yes, I would love that.

Jessie Ott (30:59)
Right.

Should we give it a whirl?

Okay, what comes first? I guess open the wine. Okay.

Michael Fors (31:10)
Yeah, so we don't don't. Yeah, yeah.

Bye.

Jessie Ott (31:17)
Mm.

So I know we have different wines. Talking about wine and enjoyment of it, we have a local ABC store here in Lake Mary. there's a guy that works, uh-oh. There's a guy that works there and his name is Zach. And he has an amazing palette and he's so knowledgeable about so many different wines. And every single wine that he's recommended, we've just loved.

Michael Fors (31:42)
Yep.

Jessie Ott (31:42)
And so he was

there today. So when I went and picked out the wine, I'm like, well, this is what I'm doing. You got a recommendation for me? And he picked this wine.

Michael Fors (31:48)
Well,

and you know what is cool with people like that that really know once they know you and you go back and report to them about what you like, they're gonna set you up and they'll bring in stuff to you. It's awesome. I love that stuff.

Jessie Ott (32:03)
Yeah, it's so fun.

That's what I love. I just love it. It's just so fun. Okay, so what do I do next? I've got the wine open. Got the wine open. I've got this bovinia, north coast of Napa. I've got two glasses and the decanter.

Michael Fors (32:11)
Now you have two glasses. Yep, two glasses.

Okay, so pour a little in one.

Yep, perfect. So pour a little in one.

Jessie Ott (32:25)
Okay?

Michael Fors (32:26)
And that one's going to be, yep. Well, yeah, no, doesn't. Yes. That one almost doesn't matter because that one's going to be, yeah, perfect. And that's where we like the level to be anyway, because, you know, if you went into a restaurant, you got to pour like that, you'd be disappointed. But for this, it works better with small because you have room to rock. So now you pour the rest. no. You don't need to unless it's your wife going to be with you.

Jessie Ott (32:27)
Like, like halfway up the ridges maybe.

Is that enough?

Good.

No, ⁓ I thought you said this port 2.

Michael Fors (32:54)
okay.

No, no, you need two glasses because now what we're going to do is we're going to pour the rest in the canter and rock it. And then so just pour that into the other, into the other.

Jessie Ott (33:04)
I'll just pour

this into the, into the same glass like this or into the canter.

Michael Fors (33:07)
Yeah, you could do that.

No, it did the oh, yeah, you could do the decanting. Yeah, because we're going to rock the rest.

Jessie Ott (33:15)
Okay.

Michael Fors (33:17)
So then you pour the rest of it.

Jessie Ott (33:17)
I see,

because we're gonna not rock this one and test it against the decanter one. Okay, so now I'm gonna take this decanter and I'm gonna pour the wine in here.

Michael Fors (33:22)
Correct. Correct.

Yes. And now, well, see, actually decanting is you should be watching right here on the bottle.

Jessie Ott (33:32)
Do I do all of it?

Michael Fors (33:40)
Yeah, I mean, I pour almost the whole, yeah, when you're pouring, see, actually, this is decanting. If you go by the true definition of decanting, so all the decanting does is so you don't pour the sediments into whatever vessel you're pouring. Okay, so I usually do the whole thing because I'm gonna decant it because I'm gonna bring this downstairs for tonight. And this bottle is good, there was no sediment, so I went the whole way.

Jessie Ott (33:41)
I kid I-

Right.

Right. Yeah.

I'll do most of it. so.

Michael Fors (34:06)
Yeah. And then from, so now put it on that

wooden base.

Jessie Ott (34:11)
I'm glad you told me about the wooden base because I didn't see it.

Michael Fors (34:15)
Yep, and now just put it down and we're going to rock it. So this one here, yep, and it's just a gentle...

Jessie Ott (34:19)
Okay.

Just.

So I'm just gonna put this up here for people to see. When it's rocking, when he was talking about the ocean, you can see how it kind of filters back inside with the ridges. Right? Is that what I'm understanding here?

Michael Fors (34:27)
Thank you.

Right, yep, with the rocking part.

it's four minutes, so if you want to do it on the table.

Jessie Ott (34:45)
Yeah, they do.

Michael Fors (34:46)
Now we do have a battery operated one that's in R &D right now.

So by rocking it back and forth, it doesn't have to be fast. And that's the nice part about it. And this is a big part of the experience too, is I get, yeah, I get a lot of feedback from this and it's not like, you know, again, some of the wine experts that are out there that I've met, some of the sommeliers that I met, they're like, I got to rock it for four minutes. I said, well, you don't have to go in the corner and rock it for four minutes. You can chit chat while you're rocking and talk to friends and just,

Jessie Ott (34:58)
Yeah.

It's fun!

That's true.

Michael Fors (35:20)
Just enjoy the motion of the wine. Just relax.

Jessie Ott (35:24)
It's fun to watch and I'm glad you told that story about watching the water on the rocks because it reminds me of it now and it's just so calming.

Michael Fors (35:26)
This is.

Yes, exactly. So we just, we just do this for four minutes. I've got a couple of restaurants I'm trying to work with, but everybody is just so stuck with, you know, this is what we, you know, what we did, this is what we do, this, you know, why don't you try something new? You're complaining businesses down.

Jessie Ott (35:43)
I think if you

Right. Well, and that's something that we talk about on a podcast all the time. And I was talking about that with my mentor before I got on a call with you and about, you know, how his daughter doesn't really they don't really drink very much, but they'll spend one hundred one hundred and twenty to go to a new restaurant just for the experience. And so I've been saying that for a few years, how important the experience is. And I can just see going to a restaurant and seeing this little machine rock this little

you know, this decanter back and forth would be a great experience.

Michael Fors (36:26)
And you know what I've been pitching to them and I've got one that's close and I'm like Brad This what you can do with this is okay You have the liquid jazz experience wine of the weekend or the night or whatever it is and You pick a wine a red wine that you've got a really good deal on where you can make some nice money Or you pick some of the inventory that's been sitting there for a while that you want to get rid of so the only

Jessie Ott (36:54)
Right.

Michael Fors (36:55)
The only way you can get this experience is if you choose that wine. Well, once people start to see this, you know, when you bring it to the table, there's going to be people, let me try that. Let me try that.

Jessie Ott (37:07)
Yeah, exactly.

People are going to be like, what is that? I mean, it really is. It really is fun. And,

Michael Fors (37:11)
Yes, I bring it.

I bring it everywhere I go, every restaurant

I go to, bring it.

Jessie Ott (37:18)
Talk

to me about the four minutes.

Michael Fors (37:21)
Well,

we've tested a bunch of wines at all different and four happened to be the amount that worked consistently with most wines. Like a lighter wine, like the Zins and stuff like that. Two minutes work good with Zin. I did have a couple of Washington State wines. One of them took like 10 minutes. And then I was doing the Boston Wine Expo and there was a lady from Croatia there and her wine took

almost 15 minutes to open. In between the sessions, she would come over and the two of us would rock her wine so it would give it some flavor. All right, so the four minutes is up. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (37:59)
Mm-hmm.

It is?

So I will tell you, so my wife had some E-Wrap Pinot Noir the other night and I told her, try this glass. And she did, she would rock it. And I'm like, have to do it for four minutes. She's like, okay. And so I asked her, I'm like, could you tell the difference? And she's like, yeah, I could tell the difference. And that's kind of a big deal for her to be able to the difference, yeah.

Michael Fors (38:24)
⁓ I

like hearing that. Yeah. So now pouring to the other, you know, the empty glass. ⁓ So what we do is, well, the easy way to pour, I'm right-handed. So I put my left hand around the neck.

Jessie Ott (38:30)
Okay.

Michael Fors (38:38)
Okay? And then I use my right hand underneath.

Jessie Ott (38:42)
I see. Okay.

Michael Fors (38:43)
All right, and that way, and you see there's a spout on the, on the, okay. So, so your left, yeah, your left hand is pretty much just the pivot point. So see, by having it there, then you can lift the back, because it is a little awkward, because it's bigger than most decanters. And then you see it, but with that spout, it gives it a really nice pore.

Jessie Ott (38:47)
Yes. Yep, I got the spell.

Okay.

It is bigger.

Michael Fors (39:07)
And now after all this work, we get to enjoy the fun now. Salute, salute. Yep, so now, and then for the aroma, yes. And for the aroma, what we do is again, most of, cause I did just so you could see the stem glass and you know, they all do this and swirl. But pretty much that, that's centrifugal force. It's pulling everything tight. So the theory behind the rocking is,

Jessie Ott (39:10)
Okay. Okay. Do we do a smell test?

Michael Fors (39:35)
What we do is you just give it a gentle rock. So instead of rock and sniff, you just hold it right under your nose and rock it under your nose. So like this.

So now it's opening the wall. Now it's opening the.

Jessie Ott (39:46)
This is the

one that we poured the first time.

Michael Fors (39:50)
Nope, nope. That one you're not gonna taste first. You taste the decanted one first. But you can do the smell test between the two now.

Jessie Ott (39:58)
yeah.

Yeah, this the the this one is definitely not opened because you can the first. it's a cab, so it's you know, it's pretty out there. It's pretty out. don't know what the alcohol is, but I can definitely it's 14%. I get the alcohol on the first one and the second one. Not at all. It's more about the fruit.

Michael Fors (40:18)
Yes, exactly. And that's what decanting does. I mean, I didn't invent decanting. You know, it's just the process to get it quicker. And a big part of it was, like I was telling you before, it was more for the second and third bottle. Because the first one, if you want to open it up and to give you a guest coming over, you could open it up days before if you want. It doesn't matter. You know, but it was that second bottle. So now we come over with, you know,

Jessie Ott (40:20)
No.

Yeah.

Right.

Michael Fors (40:44)
Dinner's not ready yet and we're just sitting around in the kitchen and we're chit chatting and you know, we're cutting vegetables and you're cooking and everything and you know, we're just having a great time. Now the bottle's gone. We haven't eaten yet. Right? So now you start over. You're not going to wait another hour for that to decant. And that's why this was my whole thought process behind the whole thing. So if you sip the one we decanted,

Jessie Ott (40:55)
Hahaha!

Michael Fors (41:09)
You should get that little fruity taste with your classes. You get it all in the back. And the other thing too, once you practice enough, it takes practice. So you might have to do this three or four times a week. Open up the wiring. So now, yeah.

Jessie Ott (41:23)
Oh no. Do

I have to?

Michael Fors (41:28)
And the nice thing now is other than your classes, now you're just doing it to enjoy it. You're not doing it to learn. So now once you get the hang of it, what I do is I'll rock it under my nose. And as soon as I start to get the aromas in my nose, I go right into the sip. So now the flavor profile is, you know, it's in your nose, it's in your nasal cavity. So now everything down here is just filled with all the

Jessie Ott (41:34)
Yeah.

Yep.

Michael Fors (41:57)
the flavors and the enjoyment.

So now we'll.

Jessie Ott (41:59)
That is very

nice. This is very nice.

Michael Fors (42:02)
So now try the undercantated one, the unairated one, and you should be able to tell the difference.

Jessie Ott (42:09)
Yeah, it's more tart, less finish. It doesn't have any of the same aroma profiles as the one that has decanted. I know we talked about that a little bit on the science. We'll get into that in just a second.

There's a very big difference between these two. And also same bottle, completely different in enjoyment.

Michael Fors (42:25)
Same bottle, right, same bottle, same everything.

Jessie Ott (42:30)
Honestly, whereas this one's it's more tart and it's less of the experience and tasting all the different components of the wine and then having it linger. It doesn't do any of that like it does with this one. It's almost it's a completely different experience, actually. Now, if you're eating it with food, maybe maybe those are muted out a little bit, but

Michael Fors (42:46)
Thank you. Yes.

Jessie Ott (42:52)
not just drinking it straight like this.

Michael Fors (42:55)
Because if you think about a bottle of wine, I mean, it's a living thing. know, when you buy the bottle, no matter what year you buy, is, I mean, it's obviously very, very, very slow, but it's constantly changing. It's constant. It's still in its fermentation. It just keeps going. Obviously, it slows way, way, way, way down from, you know, from the beginning fermentation, but

Jessie Ott (43:00)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Michael Fors (43:22)
And all those gases are built up in the bottle. And it's just that little space of the cork. You pull that cork out and those gas like, thank you. It's like the genie. We're letting the genie out of the bottle now.

Jessie Ott (43:30)
Hahaha!

GD out of the bottle.

So talk about the science behind it.

Michael Fors (43:39)
With the style of the decanter and the way it works, it's by rocking it up and down the steps, the surface area is constantly changing. So any of the negative gases, the sulfites, they all just evaporate. And that's just from moving it, gently moving it. It's just a natural process. Again, the ocean opened up just by splashing on the rocks.

You go by a river, if you walk by a river, it's nice. But when you get by the rapids, smell, you just smell it. It's just what happens in the process. I have a friend who's he's a professor at WPI. That's a engineering college and he's in the the like kind of the medical part of it. Like you remember when they cloned the sheep, he was on that team that cloned the sheep. Yeah, it is. So he took

Jessie Ott (44:31)
that's pretty cool.

Michael Fors (44:34)
decanter ran and I gave him a bottle of wine and he tested it before he ran it he rocked it and he got all the data now the data was way way way too fine you know because it's all medical stuff what they're trying to find out I mean it goes down to the tenth of a milgram

Jessie Ott (44:53)
Right.

Right.

Michael Fors (44:54)
So then he rocked it and he tested it again and he said there were 50 new organic compounds that showed up after the four minute rock and they were all in the flavor and aroma profile.

Jessie Ott (45:07)
That is so cool.

Michael Fors (45:08)
I know I get excited when he telling me that. said, yeah, he said, I had some colleagues there and they tasted before and after and like, my God, four minutes. Everybody's blown away by the four minutes. And again, you know, when the electronic one is made, it'll have a little dial on it where it's not always going to be just four minutes, you know. And then I'm hoping to have a list where if your wine falls into this category, that would be two, this might be six.

Jessie Ott (45:19)
Yeah.

Right.

Michael Fors (45:34)
You know, we're trying to come up with different ideas and you know, it hasn't been easy. I really need, we know we've talked about a mentor. I don't have one in this world. I thought I had somebody that was going to partner with me down in Tampa. We have a place in St. Pete. So we would, we were down there and I met them, but it didn't, it didn't work out. So I was very disappointed, but they have, they have the background stuff that, that I need for.

manufacturing, for testing, for advertising. I mean, I'm doing this, I'm learning this as I go. You know, they know what works, you know, and they're pretty much a by the numbers company. If the numbers show and their numbers for the wine world. I don't know, maybe they use Jack GPT for all I know, but their numbers with it works. That's a pretty cool thing. But but their numbers for the wine world are

Jessie Ott (46:23)
That's it.

It is pretty cool.

Michael Fors (46:31)
positive over the next five years. They feel that however they analyzed everything and got all their analytics and statistics, they show it's going to work. What they were saying about what they see now is part of the downfall with some of ones, it's just so many. And they keep planting and planting and planting and they're like, oh, we didn't do as much as last year. And that ends up being that

Jessie Ott (46:44)
Good.

Mm-hmm.

Michael Fors (47:01)
that big corporate thing. And again, I don't like to get into politics, but you know, I always used to love when I was first getting into the business world, I had such a hard time with, you know, we we we were down, you know, 20 % from our projections. We only made, you know, 200 million dollars a share. And I'm like, but that's just a you're guessing on what you might do. And then you you say you didn't have a good year when you make 200 million dollars. You know what I mean? It's just

Jessie Ott (47:30)
Yeah, all relative.

Michael Fors (47:32)
It's yeah, right.

mean, it'd be like a I don't know if you're into sports, but like a baseball player saying, you know, you know, oh, yeah, I hit 300, but I had a bad year because I wanted to hit 400. Well, everybody wants to hit 1000. I mean, every time you write, I every time you get up, your goal is to hit it one out of, you know, three out of 10 times, your goal is to hit it all 10. But anyway.

Jessie Ott (47:44)
Right.

Right.

Michael Fors (47:58)
So they were pretty positive. So I'm excited about that part of the wine world. And it looks like some of the wineries is starting to look at the distilleries that are popping up and the micro brews that are popping up and seeing that the product is about, like we've talked about, the enjoyment of the product. I looked at some, what are those people called?

Anyway, with this one guy, was a wine, not enthusiast, not an inventor. You know, where they help promote your product for you online

Jessie Ott (48:30)
you mean like influencer?

Michael Fors (48:32)
Influencer,

yeah. And I'm watching his show and I watch most of them. That's why I like that V is for Vino. But you know, he's he did a blind tasting of a wine and so this is the wine enthusiast top five for this year. And I'm getting and I'm thinking, who's top five? Your top five and my top five might not be the same. Why can't you just drink it? Enjoy the wine. But anyway, so he's got it in a bag. He tastes it and he's talking about it. And and then he says,

Jessie Ott (48:49)
Right.

Michael Fors (49:00)
They open it up and he says, oh, we said wine enthusiasts gave this a 93. I'd give it a 92 at best. And I'm like, you know what? I don't, this is not the kind of influencer I want. mean, really you feel that you could, why couldn't you just, 92, 93, I mean, really? Correct. Did you like the wine? He never said if he liked it or not. He just.

Jessie Ott (49:22)
What's the difference?

Right.

Michael Fors (49:28)
So anyway, I'm trying to do that. have one sommelier, he's been awesome, awesome. He wants me to launch this when I get that electronic base at his restaurant. And that's what he wants to do. He wants to just make it fun, make it enjoyable. know, the high part with the rocking is in the restaurant world, for a server to go over and spend four minutes at a table, they can get a lot of work done in four minutes in a restaurant.

Jessie Ott (49:43)
Yeah. Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the consumer could do it. And it's kind of fun. Yeah.

Michael Fors (49:58)
yes, you know, and I get such positive

feedback. One of my favorite things is I'll go to a wine show and we're doing a tasting or restaurant or, and this, you know, go to the table and do the before and after. And there's always somebody goes, I'm not a big red wine fan. I'll pass. They say, can you just humor me? Excuse me. And just, just try it. Okay. So they'll take a sip of the one that's been decanted and like,

See, no, I don't mind this one. This is nice. This is this. This is this. And then I give them the undercant and they'll take a sip and they go, this is why I don't like red wine.

And that I love that. You know, you want to hug them every time, but you can't. But you know, but.

Jessie Ott (50:32)
You

Yeah, you can't.

Yeah, they're proving your point.

Michael Fors (50:42)
Yes, exactly. And it just take the time. You know, I, and then, you know, I get some of the feedback is, know, the four minutes, you know, I like to just open my wine and drink it. So, well, do you cook? yeah, I love cooking. Well, how long do you prepare your meal? You know, by the time you chop all the vegetables that you season this and you cook this, I mean, you're going to spend an hour making dinner so you can enjoy the best you can of your dinner, but you won't take.

Jessie Ott (51:01)
Yeah.

Michael Fors (51:11)
Four minutes to enjoy your wine and then they get insulted and leave. Right.

Jessie Ott (51:13)
Right. So.

You said something about, we have suburban here. You said that this works also with spirit. So should we try that out? Okay. Okay, I'm gonna go get new glasses. You just sitting.

Michael Fors (51:20)
Yes.

Yeah, I'd like to do that. I have a Jim Beam too. Mine's a dist...

Yeah, I'm just gonna,

I'm gonna drink this one dry.

So when we talk about

spirits, Mike, we have a new distillery in our town and a friend of mine, Rob, you know, we went out there one night. He's a good friend. He brings his glass everywhere he goes. So we walk in with the two glasses and we get a flight. And one of the ones that he got was a new jalapeno pineapple rum. Yeah, so he takes it and, you know,

Jessie Ott (51:47)
Hehehehe

Michael Fors (51:59)
He knows now how to rock and sniff. He rocks and takes this big sniff and his head goes way back like that. He was already goes, oh my God, the jalapeno. And he is crying. Oh, the tears are running down his cheeks. And he's crying. He looks to me and he goes, oh, there's the pineapple.

Jessie Ott (52:14)
You

Michael Fors (52:20)
It was hysterical. And I've done a few bourbon tastings. ⁓

Jessie Ott (52:20)
That's so funny.

Okay,

and you mentioned to not open it until we do the tasting. That was very important to you. Okay.

Michael Fors (52:33)
Well,

because once you open it...

you know, the, it starts the aeration process.

Jessie Ott (52:42)
Right.

Michael Fors (52:43)
So the whole process of aerating, especially in wine as it's fermenting, you...

Jessie Ott (52:50)
Do

I do both glasses and then we'll shake one?

Michael Fors (52:53)
Though I was going to sip and then Rock can sip. But yeah, the two was good. I didn't bring a second glass. So that's a good idea.

Jessie Ott (52:59)
Okay.

Michael Fors (52:59)
But the fermentation process is, it pretty much keeps the oxygen from going into the wine. Because you know how bad oxygen is for wine. So as they're fermenting, mean, everything is sealed tight. They're in those closed containers. Everything to keep the oxygen out. And then we just saw what adding oxygen to it does. It just enhances the flavor. So this here is.

Jessie Ott (53:01)
Woof.

Yeah.

Right.

Michael Fors (53:26)
see now? Yeah, you don't have to with this here. See, with this, just give it with this. The spirits. I give it a quick rock and just let it flow up and down the sides. And then I just keep giving it a smell. And once that heavy alcohol smell is gone, because I want to smell the, you know, the whiskey, either the vanilla, the oak, you know, whatever is in there.

Jessie Ott (53:26)
So we should start rocking.

Michael Fors (53:48)
And the nice thing about this too is if, know, if, no, I'm, I'm, I'm aggressive. Yeah. The wine. Yeah. Look, I just have single hand and I'm just rocking it. Nope. It's a rock. Cause you want it to run up and down those steps and then it falls back into itself.

Jessie Ott (53:51)
So just kind of gently like this.

Okay, so a little bit more like that.

Okay, so you're kind of swirling it. No, okay.

I don't

trust myself. Like this?

Michael Fors (54:10)
Yeah, there

you go. There you go. Yep. Again, it's the practice.

Jessie Ott (54:14)
So how long did it, how many iterations did it take for you to get to this level?

Michael Fors (54:18)
You mean in the Bourbons?

Jessie Ott (54:21)
No, for the glassware.

Michael Fors (54:22)
probably it was like four or five. The hardest part we have was, I mean, this looks like your traditional one, but this curve right here, it comes up and then it stops kind of quicker and comes up. So this way, when you're rocking, it goes up and it folds back into itself. Cause I was having a lot of trouble with it splashing out. It just kept it just, and then I tightened it up even more.

Jessie Ott (54:27)
That's

Yeah.

Yeah.

Michael Fors (54:51)
But the problem there was when you went to drink, it would get up to that ridge. And then when you tried to get a little bit more, it fanned out a little bit. Now you're trying to keep it not dribbling down the sides. I mean, that's fine at the end of the night, but not when you first sip.

Jessie Ott (55:04)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Well, those of you that have watched my podcast over the years, it's no secret that Jim Beam Black is my go-to. I love it so much. And just smelling it makes me want to have an old-fashioned. I just want the cherry and the orange.

Michael Fors (55:27)
Now, you say old-fashioned, the first show I did was in the bar, that was my launch, was at the Boston Wine Expo. And next to us, there was a company that was doing, I don't remember the name of the bourbon. What, no. Anyway, they were making old-fashions and serving old-fashions. And when you put that in this glass and you rock an old-fashioned, the flavor profile that...

comes out of that drink is amazing. Yes, they kept coming over. They came over and I gave them a couple glasses for them to show people over there. And they gave me some of their old fashioned that they made. And they said, can you please promote our booth for the people who haven't stopped to us yet first? And I'm like, yeah, I'd love to. And we sold a bunch of glasses that night just because of it. Well, it is.

Jessie Ott (55:58)
You're kidding!

That's cool! That's awesome!

Michael Fors (56:24)
It

works obviously better with flavored, you know, like this is pretty much, you're gonna get maybe, I don't know what kind of barrels they use, but you might get a little vanilla out of the barrel or a little bit of the char if they use the charred barrels. But this, you know, a straight like this, anything that's flavored, it works really good with fireball. You get that cinnamony smell and so.

Jessie Ott (56:45)
yeah.

Mm-hmm.

So do you try the one that we've been shaking first? Like the wine? Okay.

Michael Fors (56:53)
Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

See even even the aroma when you smell it out of the glass if you compare the two smells you're not gonna get that that alcohol hit as bad

You know what I mean? You can actually smell the...

It's not.

Jessie Ott (57:08)
I don't know,

think the Jim Beam is a...

Well, it's 90 proof. There's still quite a bit of alcohol, but it definitely doesn't calm it like the wines for sure. The wines really, yeah.

Michael Fors (57:15)
Yeah.

Like it does the wine.

Yeah, this is, this didn't change this one too much at all. It's more successful with the flavory ones.

Jessie Ott (57:30)
Okay.

I can tell the difference. I even think there's a slightly different color. This one seems like a little maybe a little bit lighter just because it's got more air in it. Maybe I'm lying to myself.

Michael Fors (57:41)
that, you I did, you

could see it when you showed it that there was a little difference. And the thing is, if you're at a party and you're just standing there and you have these glasses, it does look like, yeah.

Yep, I can see a little bit of a difference. Yeah, not a lot. But, but, know, if you're at a party and you happen to be standing, you know, it's nice. You just it's just it's a natural motion, the rocking. So you put it there and if you're one that likes it, you know, just a tad above room temperature, you know, there's always this, you know, to get yourself up to because it's funny like like wine, you know, the the

Jessie Ott (57:56)
See ya!

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Michael Fors (58:18)
We've got a bourbon guy that comes to the wine night. He loves his bourbon. And it's a significant change. He'll hold his glass sometimes, you know, double cup it and go, bum, what are you doing? He goes, nah, I like it. I like it a little bit warm. He said, I feel like I get a little better flavor out of it when it's, you know, not heated, but, you know, just warm. Because he lives right next door, he rents one of my apartments and he keeps his apartment so cold.

Jessie Ott (58:39)
Right?

Yeah, hit Melod out.

It definitely mellowed out.

Michael Fors (58:50)
Yeah, it, it, it, yes. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, um, it doesn't cut the alcohol rate down. So if you have a wine that's 14, it's 14 the whole time. So, and then even decanting it, what I'm going to do now is I'm going to, well, I'm going to bring the decanter down cause I'm home. But if I do something like this, if I'm going to a friend's house or something and I'm bringing a wine, I'll decant it in this and then I'll just pour it back in the bottle and put one of those travel caps on it.

Jessie Ott (59:19)
yeah, that's a good idea. That way you don't have to lug the thing around. Yeah.

Michael Fors (59:19)
You know, so like, yeah, so I get to.

Yep, and then I have, but I do have a little bag that I made up of. It's a cloth bag and the canter fits in the bottom and then the four corners, I could take four glasses. So I bring that to all the restaurants I go to and, you know, and yeah, and they're like, you know, you're to bring that? I don't enjoy the wine, you know, straight out of the bottle. So if I'm going to enjoy my meal, why don't I enjoy the wine too?

Jessie Ott (59:37)
Great idea.

Yeah

Michael Fors (59:52)
Because I don't do, I mean, I do wine with the meal, but I'm not good at the pairing stuff. You know, I just, I just like exactly. And then enjoy the wine because the amount of times that you really eat the meal and sip the wine and enjoy the two together, it's not that many times. I watch people, you know, they'll eat.

Jessie Ott (59:58)
You don't have to be. You just get the wine ready.

Michael Fors (1:00:18)
and then they'll stop and have a few sips of wine. And for me, it's like, why don't I just drink a wine I'm enjoying?

Jessie Ott (1:00:25)
Right. Yeah,

for sure. But Michael, this is thank you so much for reaching out. This is a very unique experience. And that's what this podcast is all about. You're an innovator. You're doing something completely different than anyone else is doing. And I absolutely 100 percent believe in this product. It is it's it's fun. It's an experience. This is this is your time.

Michael Fors (1:00:45)
Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah, I just got a chill. Restaurants and even just people to relax. know, if I could do a commercial, I would do like somebody comes home from work and they go, what a day. I just need a glass of wine. And they open up the cabinet and there's the traditional glass of wine. And then there's my glass next to it. And they look at them and they go, I guess I don't need a glass of wine. I need an experience. And they grab my glass.

Jessie Ott (1:00:51)
⁓ because restaurants need it.

Michael Fors (1:01:20)
and they have their wine. And that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be the experience, you know, like you have four glasses now, if you have a couple guests over, you guys like, look, just try this. Now it's something to talk about, something different, something just, you know, it's just new, you know, a new experience, a new out there and, you know, have the experience of this and the event that you're having, just be, be the enjoyment of that part. There's so much.

Negative out there and so much everything is just block it out. You're here for an hour two hours Just that doesn't happen. This is where we are. I'm gonna play guitar for you You could tell them that I'm play some guitar for you Yeah, you could do that now I noticed I noticed it like when we go down we're in st Pete when we go visit so I'm gonna if you could if you Wouldn't mind sending me your info

Jessie Ott (1:01:52)
Yep.

Yeah. No.

Michael Fors (1:02:11)
But you were talking about a wine bar that you go to. Maybe we'll drive across, my wife and I, and we'll drive across and meet you guys at that wine place you were talking about not far from your house. And maybe I could show them.

Jessie Ott (1:02:24)
Sure, I've got two places to take you to right away.

Michael Fors (1:02:31)
the high part I'm having is if like, one of the stores, he was awesome. Actually, he has a radio podcast and then he was picked up by two different, they heard the story on this radio podcast and two magazines picked up the story and they got to do a story on his podcast about The Liquid Jazz And but the problem is unless you do the taste comparison, it's just

Me telling you it works.

Jessie Ott (1:02:58)
Yeah,

I think what you'd have to do is you'd have to get the store manager involved and do a staff training like before the store opens and show them.

Michael Fors (1:03:09)
Yeah, because when I go and I do that there, I have success. So, but people...

Jessie Ott (1:03:14)
Yeah, well, I mean,

it's a no brainer. You know, another thing, what a lot of places do here is they'll set up their whole store and have tastings. And you should have like a table there.

Michael Fors (1:03:25)
wow. Yep.

Yes, I did. I did a couple of those. I don't know if it wasn't the right atmosphere. They had the wine set up, but the people that were stopping weren't. It almost has to be invitation. The only ones I've done well at is if a store does a private tasting where people pay like twenty dollars or something to go. They're serious enough about wine where they're interested. I've done those and, you know, I did one out in Western Mass and there was

Jessie Ott (1:03:49)
Yeah.

Michael Fors (1:03:57)
20 people there that night, but they were all couples. I basically had 10 potential customers, right? Well, I sold six out of the 10 because they're like, my God, what a difference. But they're into the, when I just set up with a tasting in a package store, you know, you get the guy that goes in, buys his 30 pack of Bud Light and he goes, yeah, I'll try that. Right. You know,

Jessie Ott (1:04:09)
Yep.

Right.

Michael Fors (1:04:23)
You had a lot of that. The wine guy sold some of his wine because that's an instant purchase. like, that tastes good. I'll get that for my girlfriend. You know what I mean?

Jessie Ott (1:04:30)
Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of

times they're, they're liquor focused too. So you get a lot of people that are more, more into the liquor side. So I can see where that would be kind of a challenge.

Michael Fors (1:04:40)
Yeah, I've done a few of them and for the amount of time it takes and traveling there and everything, it ended up not being worth it. But when I do, did one, there's a vineyard in North Carolina. He invited me down to do his, I did the American Wine Society show and he loved this. It's Raffaldini Vineyards and they're in North Carolina, North, corner of North Carolina. And

He invited me down to do his wine club members event. I had a great show. Yeah, we sold 30 of them at this show. It was just me. I was the other vendor. It was just him. But these are wine people. They're there to enjoy. They're there to enjoy the wine.

Jessie Ott (1:05:15)
Yeah.

Yeah. Vineyards

going direct to them would be a great idea. Yeah.

Michael Fors (1:05:25)
Yes, yep. again,

one of the little issues I've run into there, I ran into one lady and this was in North Carolina. I went in because I needed a wine to demonstrate at the show because I don't have lot of wine license. I don't have wine. So I was going to vineyards down there to see which one I could choose. So I go to this one vineyard and I'm talking to the lady in the tasting room and it was quiet at this time.

So I was telling her, goes, oh, that sounds like fun. She says, yeah, we're going to be at that event. So an older lady about my age comes out of the back room and she says, well, what's this all about? So I explained everything to her. She says, well, my wine doesn't need decanting and aerating. Oh, OK. So well, if you don't want me to do it, I won't do it. says, no, go ahead. She said, you know, you're wasting your time. So we go sit outside. We take a bottle and we do the before and after. And then she comes out and she tastes it.

Jessie Ott (1:06:07)
You

Michael Fors (1:06:21)
She said nothing. She walked away, wouldn't sat in her office, wouldn't say goodbye when I say goodbye, nothing. She was insulted that I made her wine taste different than she made her wine. Oh my God, it was crazy. And the lady in the tasting room was all apologetic. And I went to two other wineries and both of them were owners of the wineries and they're like,

Jessie Ott (1:06:36)
That's It is a little over the top.

Michael Fors (1:06:49)
my god, this is awesome. Look how good this tasted. Blah, blah, blah. And that was their wine.

Jessie Ott (1:06:54)
You want a wine to open. That's the whole beautiful. Yeah. Some people's kids, I tell you. Michael, this has been so much fun. I am inspired by this product. I love the story. I loved how you explained it with the ocean and the stream.

Michael Fors (1:06:56)
Wouldn't you think? I know.

Yeah, yeah, right.

Jessie Ott (1:07:16)
and the mist and the icicles and whatnot and the smells and how that all kind of came about. I think it's really cool. You were meant to do this. Keep going. It's the first few years are hard. But if there's anything I can do to help you along the way, let me know. Certainly when I get my marketplace up on Thursday, Thursdays, I'd love to have you on there as something I can sell to consumers.

and help you, you know, however I can to get it in more people's hands because it's clearly a great solution and it's perfect timing for experiences. So I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for telling your story.

Michael Fors (1:07:57)
Thank you. I had a blast. You've been awesome.

Jessie Ott (1:08:00)
Yeah, me too. I had so much fun. So I will, I'll let you get back to it. I think you got to get ready for happy hour here in a couple minutes. Yep. So I will, I will wave goodbye. Thanks for stopping by and spending time with me.

Michael Fors (1:08:07)
Yes, it's coming up.

Thank you.

Jessie Ott (1:08:16)
Alrighty, take care. Bye

Michael Fors (1:08:18)
Bye now. Bye now.