Don't Launch Your Beverage Brand Without Listening to This!

Launching a beverage brand in 2026? 🍹 Learn the do’s & don’ts, data, analytics, sales strategy, and real-time insights from industry experts. Build smarter, grow faster 🚀  @ThirstyThursdaysat3PMEST  

📊 Engaging Summary 
This panel breaks down the real answer behind launching a beverage brand today—and why most fail before they ever see growth.

🔥 Key Takeaways:
📉 Data over ego: Build for the market, not yourself
📊 Velocity wins: Sales per account beats distribution count
🧠 Know your “why” or your brand dies early
🌍 Start small, scale smart (1 market → proof → expand)
💰 Cash burn kills brands faster than competition
🧪 Test, learn, adjust in real time
🤝 Community + relationships = real growth
⚠️ Legal + compliance mistakes = expensive setbacks
👉 This isn’t theory. It’s real-world analytics + execution.

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!!  Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Transcript

Jessie Ott (00:29)
Hello everybody. Welcome to Thursday Thursdays. I have an awesome panel today. I cannot wait to get into our topic. We were just talking about we had done something fairly similar a couple years ago and about the Do's and Don'ts of Starting a Beverage Brand. even two years ago, our environment looked completely different than it does today. So I think we have a lot of really interesting things to ⁓ cover today. So Ben, do you want to introduce yourself?

Ben Salisbury (00:54)
Sure. I'm Ben Salisbury. I'm the founder and president of Salisbury Creative Group. We are strategic sales consulting firm serving wineries and distilleries all around the world.

Jessie Ott (01:04)
You ready?

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (01:05)
Yeah, Gary Schneidkraut, founder of Beverage Alcohol Consultants, helping with commercial strategy route to market distributor advocacy for ⁓ spirits, RTD, wine, beer companies and background in distributor execution and supplier strategy. So happy to be here.

Jessie Ott (01:22)
All right, Caitlin.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:23)
Hi, Jessie. Thanks for having us. Caitlin LuBell founder and chief connection officer at BoozeBiz. We are a beverage industry recruiting agency. We cover admin to C-suite across the US. And our whole team is from the biz. So we're all from the industry. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:40)
you

Yeah, where to start? You know, this is a pretty big topic, think, obviously, since COVID kind of erupted into our world of several thousands of beverage options. And, you know, it's funny because it's sort of one of these things where you're having a conversation with somebody and you go, ⁓ you mean that was pre-COVID? And you're like, yeah, because the world is different, right? And we just continue to evolve with, you know, all the things that are going on.

Caitlyn LuBell (02:04)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (02:08)
around the world. So it's interesting, you know, how everything's going to play out. And when gas goes up, that's a source of that's a sore subject for people because their income gets eaten up by that, you know, as they travel to and from from from work.

Should we start with the do's or should we start with the don'ts?

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (02:31)
I think,

you know, and Ben and I touched on this a while back when, people say, I'm going to launch an alcohol brand. The first question we ask is why. And it's not to be contrarian or combative. you know, I got Bar Convent Berlin, anyone who said, I want to, I want to be in the U S okay. Why? Well, it's the U S it's a great consumer.

But do you understand the intricacies that go into operating when every state has different legalities, the costs of operating? So I think, sorry, for the Do's just have a good answer for why. I think a lot of folks especially.

Jessie Ott (02:59)
Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (03:10)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (03:11)
It starts there,

yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (03:12)
Yeah. So mean, a lot of folks entered the industry thinking, Hey, it'll be cool and sexy to own an alcohol brand. This will be fun. ⁓ But look, the industry is very saturated and the consumer behavior has changed immensely in the past six years or so.

Jessie Ott (03:20)
Right?

Caitlyn LuBell (03:21)
you

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (03:32)
So I think just making sure that you've just answered the why as far as for the consumer, does it make sense? And for you personally, are you in a position to truly launch and run and grow a brand?

Jessie Ott (03:46)
Yeah. Yeah, and I think...

Caitlyn LuBell (03:47)
Yeah, I think

that people, you know, what happened in 2020 was that a lot of people lost their jobs, right? And people's entrepreneurial bone got poked because they had to, you know, it was like, okay, I lost my job, I need an income. What am I going to do? Let me do that passion project I've always wanted to do. And I think it's wonderful. I, you know, I relaunched BoosBiz after the pandemic. So I think it's great, but I think that

Jessie Ott (04:06)
Right.

Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (04:14)
the learning curve when you're not from the industry and the amount of money that it takes to do business in the industry is something that definitely really intense and something that people don't always think about ahead of time. They don't know. Like Gary said, it looks fun, know? Well, there's a lot more to it.

Jessie Ott (04:25)
Intense. Yeah. Well...

Right.

It looks fun.

I'd love the stats on how many new brands are making it that weren't from the industry of owners that are not from the industry because we all know the answer is no, we're not going to launch a brand. No, we're not going to create something because it's just so hard.

Caitlyn LuBell (04:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

It's so hard.

Ben Salisbury (04:54)
Another way to another way to state this do that we're talking about is have a full understanding of what you're getting yourself into. And I think that's where a lot of people fall short. They don't really understand this not enough to have a great product. People are so focused on this idea they have for a product or brand, but they don't take it all the way through to see what it's going to take to bring it to life. So just having a realistic expectation of just how difficult it's going to be and what it's going to take will go along.

Jessie Ott (04:55)
and expensive.

Caitlyn LuBell (05:02)
Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (05:22)
when I have a new founder entrepreneur come to me and ask for my help, when they have an idea for brand, I do my best to talk them out of it only because it's the kindest thing that I can do. Even if they have a lot of money, they probably don't want to part with all that money. You know, the old expression. I mean, this is expression this decades old, but the best way to make a small fortune in the wine business is to start with a large fortune. That's even more true today. So

Caitlyn LuBell (05:44)
Hmm. Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (05:46)
It's the kind thing to do to try to talk somebody out of it until you're 100 % sure they understand what they're getting themselves into.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (05:52)
And Ben, I think we share that same attitude and sentiment and approach. It's, I was just speaking to a prospective brand earlier today and I'm asking him questions and kind of just pushing back on his approach on-prem versus off-prem, his pricing, his margins. And I...

Yeah, I said, you know, um, he said to me, goes, well, why don't you start a brand? And I said, you literally just spent 10 minutes telling me about how much risk you're taking and how it's taken five years just to get from ideation to shelf.

Jessie Ott (06:19)
Hahaha! ⁓

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (06:30)
⁓ no, personally, I think the value I bring is that I've, I've worked with so many different companies and wine spirits, RTD, you know, beer pre-launch to emerging that I know how the sausage is made. think it's one part of it. And also as an advisor, I can help the brands that come to me because I've seen what works, what doesn't work, you know, what's realistic in a

Caitlyn LuBell (06:43)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (06:56)
If someone has certain resources, but yeah, it's not trying to talk them out of it. Cause you want to crush their dreams. think in part, it's, also fiduciary duty, to not just nod your head and cash their checks as a consultant, ⁓ to push back. I said to this gentleman, said, look, my first thing is I audit the brand. want to see your deck.

Caitlyn LuBell (07:09)
Yeah, agreed.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (07:18)
your forecast, your current sales and I redline the heck out of it. And I said, but if I redline something and you have a good response for it, well, Gary, we did this approach because I said, ⁓ all right. Good point. Good point. Moving on. So it's not to just nitpick. ⁓ I think being passionate about the industry is all of us are. We want, you know, everyone to succeed.

And it's kind of tough seeing when it's an oversaturated market and a lot of brands are not even being acquired at this point. They're just, having a close up shop.

Caitlyn LuBell (07:51)
Yeah, I think one of the other dos that is not done as much as I would like to see is, I come from sales and one of the things that we did, you go into an account and you look for the opportunities, right? And I think that a lot of people, a little too often create brands for them that they want instead of looking for the opportunities in the market.

Jessie Ott (08:12)
Yes.

Caitlyn LuBell (08:16)
where are there holes? I mean, I used to work for Washington State Winery. So you go in and you see all the wines are California. There you go. You're looking for the opportunities, but you're not creating a brand for yourself. If you want to sell it and make money, you need to create the brand for the market. So where are the opportunities? Where's the growth potential? And launching a product in a very oversaturated category because you just love it.

just might not be the most beneficial for you financially. I mean, to have success, right? Ben, you've said that before too. I know.

Jessie Ott (08:47)
Yeah. And you know, one of...

One of the fastest growing segments is THC and CBD, right? But now with this bill that got slipped in when the government reopened last November, all of that is in the air. So even as a brand owner, why would you want to do that? mean, Willie's just got $15 million in investment for some new stuff that they're going to be pushing out.

that Willie's remedy is kind of on a playing field all on its own. It sold $80 million worth, I think it was 400,000 cases and they launched in April of last year. So, know, that's a powerhouse brand right there. Yeah. But you know, as a brand owner, like, I don't think I would try that. I don't think I'd try that right now.

Caitlyn LuBell (09:23)
Wow. Bravo to them. Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (09:33)
Something else you have to consider if you're thinking of launching a new brand is if there's white space out there, you can bet that tens of millions of dollars are being deployed to find it by the world's biggest beverage companies. And I tell clients all the time, I'm like, so you think there's an opportunity for this product in this category? Did it ever occur to you that the reason there isn't a product there is because there's no market for it?

that somebody has already tried figured out that there's no market if there was a market it was a glaring hole in the market. A very big global beverage company would have spotted it and filled it by now. So it's this white space that you think you're filling is not really often it's not a real thing. There's no real white space. There's a certain reason why certain products don't exist, because there's no demand for

Jessie Ott (10:19)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (10:19)
demand, but, also I think a brand being the right fit for the supplier. think a lot of the, you know, the, the bigger players and spirits, an analogy that was used once that I really liked was, ⁓ you know, let's say Diageo they're phenomenal at flying jumbo jets 747s. But if you put them in a, you know,

A private jet might not be as great and private jet, meaning an emerging brand, something that doesn't currently have a footprint. So, I mean, some founders and the leaders they bring in are quite savvy. And for me, it's not like Ben, you said it's more than just having a good product.

I'm very big into numbers and analytics. If you can make a business case based on data and analytics, in addition to trends with geography, demographic, I think it's worth pursuing, just understanding what risk you're undertaking. But I think a really big...

issue that would help to find the white space, but then take advantage is I like to say know what you don't know and surround yourself with people who do. And that could be consumer insights that could be, you know, folks coming from an adjacent, you know, area of CPG. I mean, in ALC, I think that there should be more overlap of

You know, I used to say wine companies should probably employ more beer marketers. think that they're, they're clever. create occasions, but yeah. I mean, like the white spaces is there for a reason, but I also think that it, uh, it is more opportunity and yeah. I mean, like, well, we'll see. We'll see.

Caitlyn LuBell (12:04)
Listen,

I think another do is, I'm gonna plug both of you guys right now, is to do, just piggyback on what you're saying. Do enlist in the Garry's and the Ben's and the Boo's Business of the World to help you. Because even if you're from the industry, mean, if you're, you know, it's really important to, like you said, surround yourself with the right people, talk to people.

make sure that you really are paying attention to what's going on here and now. Maybe you've been out of the industry for a few years or maybe you're totally new to the industry and that's it's really okay but you've got to enlist the right people and you really research and development is so important. I mean to do your real research talk to a lot of people and get

get the proper guidance rather than just kind of jumping off the cliff. I mean, I respect a jumping off the cliff. Trust me, I'm an entrepreneur, but you also have to do your research, right?

Jessie Ott (13:01)
Well, we got to think about too, who's our audience? Because with every generation, that audience changes ever so slightly or not, right? And the other thing that is a huge part of our community now is non-alcoholic. Beers are crushing it, right? You got all kinds of non-alcoholic opportunities. I think the biggest problem with them are the sugar. They got to get less sugar.

Caitlyn LuBell (13:04)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (13:26)
And I think with the GLP ones is no joke. My wife, Loanna, just found a video yesterday of a doctor. Do you guys remember the plastic surgeons, ⁓ Massif and Dubrow

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (13:37)
Uh, yeah, yeah. There were, I, okay, I'm, yeah, I'll admit I

watch E and Bravo occasionally. Wasn't one of those shows, like it was the husband of a real housewife, I think was one of the partners.

Jessie Ott (13:45)
Okay! Well...

I think so.

Yeah, I think so. But anyway, he was interviewed on this podcast and he got his certification in whatever GLP one, whatever avenue that means you need to go and get whatever he did. He got obsessed with it. And now they're saying there's all these health benefits with it. And there's other things that are going to that go with it, like creatine, three to five grams a day helps your brain activity.

fights dementia and all these different things. And I think that with the GLP-1, people are drinking less. They don't want to eat as much. They don't want to drink as much. But it's got so many more health benefits to it than we even know today that it's going to just keep going. And I think that is definitely something to consider. You know,

Caitlyn LuBell (14:33)
Well, Gary and I just went

to the Alt Bev Expo and you you were talking about ⁓ Cannibis Bevs. First of all, they weren't scared. They were moving forward, right, Gary? Like I didn't feel like they were like, we don't know what's gonna happen. No, they were just rocking and rolling. And a lot of them were also like, hey,

Athletes love this and you know there there's a really big category for it because you know people who don't want that alcohol intake but still want to get that buzz these kava drinks and these cannabis and hemp and THC all the There's definitely a growing I think want for it from the consumer perspective

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (15:12)
Yeah, no, Caitlin, you're, you're right. And AltBev Expo was super fascinating because it was, you know, THC, was mushrooms. So Reishi and Lion's mane, adaptogens, nootropics, then, you know, non-alk options and, ⁓ alcohol is not going anywhere. It's, it's just, it's not.

Caitlyn LuBell (15:25)
So cool.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (15:31)
And I personally, I like the term modern alcohol because as an industry, rather than telling people what they should like, I think our industry has been moving toward listening to consumers and trying to provide what they'd like. But yeah, there was maybe one person who I was on a panel with who she's an incredibly successful distributor.

with a lot of THC brands under their umbrella. And she said, we're going to kind of slow things down as far as purchasing new inventory come summer, work through it and see what's happening as we get closer to that deadline. But the current administration, I mean, I was just at the Discus conference and the joke was, hey, remember exactly one year ago, we were all so concerned about tariffs because we didn't know

Will he, won't he, how much we're in the same exact place. So I, there's a lot of waffling, in, not to get political, but I just think that there's a lot of back and forth and will he, won't he. and I think THC is maybe calling the bluff.

And saying, look, we're going to keep going. We're not just going to fold or slow down. We're going to build the momentum. And probably by November, when, you know, we're supposed to have that, that decision or, or we're supposed to re formulate. There's going to be extensions put into place, or it's going to be state by state. I think folks are just kind of rolling with it.

Caitlyn LuBell (16:39)
Mm.

Jessie Ott (16:59)
Well, what's interesting is that the Trump administration actually filed the, ⁓ for the, THC to be, I'm terrible at remembering, ⁓ yeah, level three instead of level one so that they could actually start doing research on it. And then, and then that other thing just kind of slipped in there. So it's just, it's kind of weird. It's, it's, it's, was it meant to be on purpose or not? I don't know the answer to that.

Caitlyn LuBell (17:07)
Yeah, decriminalized or yeah, to section one. Right. right.

Jessie Ott (17:23)
But I would think that a president is the way he thinks in money that he wouldn't kill it. Like, just can't imagine that he would be a part of killing something that's just so big and such a big part of our economy now. And I would think that even Congress wouldn't want to do that. Now, I think we're all...

All of us, even in the industry, they want regulation and the beverages are already regulated so heavy, they go through so many checks and balances before they even can get off out of the factory. That a lot of what I'm finding out is through guests that I've had on the show is that they're working through their ⁓ state governments to get the beverages separated from the gummies and the more unregulated parts of the industry because we already have.

We already have the beer and liquor system where we ID a convenience store. And so that's kind of the angle that we're looking at because I don't think, since there's no chatter from anybody from Congress, at least you can reach out to your state's representatives and get that definition. Hopefully that'll help.

I feel more confident getting something done at a state level than our national level.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (18:35)
Well, and the Wine and Spirits wholesalers and National Beer Wholesalers, both organizations at their conferences over the past few months, opening session was very much a, we welcome these intoxicating non-alcoholic adult beverages into our portfolio. We want to welcome them.

And I don't know if it's just, look, they've taken such a bite out of our revenue. If we can't beat them, have them join us, be part of it. Or if, if this is just how things are evolving as opposed to you see, I mean, Reyes was a beer house and. know, essentially taking over. What was the latest number of RNDC markets? They're getting.

Jessie Ott (19:15)
Another five? like 12?

Caitlyn LuBell (19:16)
11, I think.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (19:18)
Right, so Reyes is going to be total beverage alcohol and Southern in response had bought the Anheuser-Busch distribution in Metro New York. So total beverage alcohol, it's not as siloed. And I think they will be rebranding all these organization names to be adult beverage as opposed to alcohol, wine, spirits, beer.

Jessie Ott (19:30)
Bye.

Caitlyn LuBell (19:41)
wine and spirits isn't going anywhere and you know I still consume wine and spirits and you know people are still drinking booze for sure but I think that there's also a time and a place for other categories and our industry can still profit on those categories the states can still profit on those categories so I think you know that it's a

Some people are kind of like, ⁓ stop talking about that. It's hurting wine and spirits. it's like, well, but also these wine companies are coming out with a non-alc wine. there's space for it all. I think it's just a different type of product. But I think lifers are, we're still drinking. I mean, we're still going out and having our Negronis and our beautiful glasses of wine. ⁓

But I think that it's an emerging category that is a good thing for entrepreneurs and for the industry to be looking at and saying, how can we incorporate this? So our salespeople still make money and the distributors still make money in the States. Instead of fighting it, like one of you guys said, join us and make it work.

Jessie Ott (20:49)
You know...

Having guests on and listening to these brand owners talk about their brands, the whys, the things, and all the things in distribution, find it the most successful ones, I feel like, are really good at operations. It is so important to be so efficient in working with data and understanding your velocity, understanding your samples to

Caitlyn LuBell (21:03)
All

Jessie Ott (21:11)
to a yes response and understanding the math behind it, because that is so important to taking that data and going, hey, state over here, look what we've done and we can do that for you too. And I don't know how many people are out there doing that exact thing, but I would say that if you want to get in the good graces and get trust built by a distributor, that's the way you do it. And I just find that

Caitlyn LuBell (21:25)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (21:38)
You know, that's obviously my wheelhouse, but I have also seen where people are building a brand within a community, one community at a time. That's kind of like how beer houses have always functioned. They're very good at merchandising. They're very good at promotions. They're very good at building communities. And I've seen that you've seen a lot of that happen too, with some of these smaller brands. And I think that's really important to understand.

where your brand fits in that community and how you want to get that liquid to lips.

Gary, you mentioned an occasion. I think it's also interesting for brands to think about what's the occasion that you're going to be fulfilling.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (22:16)
and

Jessie Ott (22:17)
Is it

non alc? is it alc? know, I just want to be on premise in these restaurants. You know what I mean? I think you have to think of it as an occasion these days.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (22:27)
Yeah.

And piggybacking off what you were saying, it's, you know, you said by community and being very focused, I will live and die by the approach, go an inch wide and a mile deep. Don't try to do everything and be everything to everyone. Figure out who your customer is and start in a...

a very sort of controlled amount of markets or geography. And you figure out what works, what doesn't work. Something might come to, you know, come to show that, my God, it turns out we're crushing it with, you know, the...

40 to six year old female demographic. didn't intend on it, but they connect to our branding. so to tweak it that way and then expand based on, on your learnings in a repeatable model.

Jessie Ott (23:17)
Yeah, for sure. when you're getting started, go to your local liquor stores and start doing demos and get feedback. Because if people aren't coming back and buying it, you don't have a very good product. So yeah, start small, then get to your second liquor store. It takes time.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (23:33)
And

and analytics and having the data to build the strategy. You can't argue with numbers and you're right. Velocity is really what's important. And, you know, the, the hypothetical people throughout there is, would you rather have five accounts that have you on the menu and are going through X amount of cases a week, or would you rather be in 50 accounts where you're on the back bar, but maybe they're not reordering or.

And that's, look, it's up to the founder of the brand leaders, but in my opinion, to really own five accounts and have them bought in. And when I, when I say own, I just mean like they are bought in, they believe in the brand. They are, are by their own, their own volition are recommending the brand to customers.

That's what you need. And I think one of the biggest drivers in velocity for on-premises bartenders, they make a recommendation or I love asking bartenders, you know, what do you recommend or what can you make with this? But to be more strategic as opposed to the, ⁓ what was the term we use? He's pray and spray. get the pods, get the distribution, but you want the right.

Caitlyn LuBell (24:40)
Yeah. I... Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (24:44)
pods, you want to place your product where it is going to grow organically. There's going to be reorder and people are going to really kind of get to know the brand and the brand story.

Ben Salisbury (24:56)
One of the things that I like to do for clients is review their investor pitch deck to make sure it's not missing anything important. And this is a quick side note. What investors look for and what distributor and retailers look for aren't always the same thing. so you do. So that's one of the things I caution founders on is when you're preparing your investor pitch decks.

Caitlyn LuBell (25:11)
Hmm.

Ben Salisbury (25:18)
keep in mind who your audience is because investors are very, or at least they usually are enamored by broad distribution. They love to see how many store doors you've gotten into this year and how many you're going to get into next year. They're really focusing on broad or breadth of distribution. But then that worked really well up until about eight, nine years ago. Now, what's more, the more important metric, as you all have said, is velocity.

Is the sell through there? Is the reorder rate? Are the reorder rates there? That's far more important than how many stores you're in. And the corollary to this is more states does not equal more sales. A lot of founders who are pitching to investors have a schedule showing, you know, this year we're going to start in this state, then we're going to add these three states, then we're going to add these three states. That's the wrong way of looking at it. What I would rather see as an investor is

the traction of your home market first. Because if you don't have traction in your home market, getting into more states isn't gonna make much difference. That used to work, and I think that really is a really important point. What used to work no longer works, or no longer works as well. And there a lot of people in denial about that. There are a lot of people trying to build a brand today like you would have built it 10 years ago. And that's a big mistake. It's just too crowded.

Caitlyn LuBell (26:18)
Yeah.

Bravo.

Ben Salisbury (26:35)
And the distributors don't have the bandwidth they used to. So you're better off starting small, gaining traction, and building from a success story, instead of just trying to see how broad you can reach into the market.

Caitlyn LuBell (26:47)
I had a friend tell me recently, you're talking yourself out of business. And I said, yeah, but when I talked to a brand and they want to hire people in seven states, salespeople, say, no, no, because as you said, why are you doing that? Like it's business for you. And I said, I said, because you know what's going to happen? He's going to do it. And then he's going to run out of money. And then

all of sudden those six people I just hired are going to be out of a job in 10 months because the person ran out of money because they went too big, too fast. I think I know all four of us very much agree with this. And Ben, I know you preach it all the time, but I tell them, I'm like, pick one to three states. We'll hire you somebody, we'll dig in.

get you some traction and then exactly you can show other states like, hey, look what we're doing. Now you wanna bring us in. I pull people back all the time and I am talking myself out of business, but it's a long game here, right? And a brand is a long game. Exactly, it's really important to do that, I think.

Jessie Ott (27:44)
Really you're helping them stay in the game a lot longer.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (27:51)
And, and, you know, we talked about building a repeatable model, something that works based on your learnings. Caitlin, I, I, I fully agree with you that before you grow, like just really focus in, I think people overspend, they over expand, but

It's time to expand when you have a proof of concept and that proof of concept is built in your home market as Ben said.

You know, when you have really built that velocity and you find what's working, then it's not only does it make more sense for investors to know, all right, so my money is going towards, you know, this state. Why? Well, we have a proof of concept, you know, what we've done in this state, this city, that's very similar to the one we're going to. Or I like to ask clients for their e-commerce data. I'm curious, where are you shipping to?

Caitlyn LuBell (28:32)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (28:44)
Where the bottles and where's your product going to? Because yeah, if you're shipping a ton to let's say, you know, we're sending a ton to Maryland. Okay, let's dig into that. And okay, so we've got this many, you know, orders, et cetera.

Caitlyn LuBell (28:44)
Mmm.

That's smart.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (29:00)
You can go into a distributor in Maryland and make it easier on yourself. And as opposed to just saying, Hey, take a chance on me. Guess what Mr. Mrs. distributor, our customers are already in your market. We've already built the brand awareness, the, you the consumption you taking us in, it's just going to help us grow and you profit from having our product.

Caitlyn LuBell (29:23)
Such a good point.

Jessie Ott (29:23)
⁓

Yeah. And onto that, you know, I had Rob Minucci from Talkhouse Encore this year, and he's the operations, ⁓ kind of the inspiration of the operations comment I was making. And they figured out that if an account would only allow one case, just keep on moving. Don't leave a sample. Don't just keep on going because

They have figured out that the only way the brand makes it is if you put in three cases on the shelf. And, you know, and it makes sense because I went and bought Total Wine the other day and it's that section is is really overwhelming. And it's it's there's so many colors and it's so flashy that if there's not white noise, how do you stop? And, know, it just makes that make sense to me to have.

Caitlyn LuBell (30:04)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (30:11)
some kind of a billboard for people to actually be able to focus on something. I maybe people are so focused on a brand that when they're walking in there, they're looking for a brand. But when you're just sort of walking through, it's really overwhelming. You know, even with the THC and CBD stuff.

Caitlyn LuBell (30:24)
And that's

rare these days. People like to try new things. Everybody has a very short attention span. People always want to try new things. I think once they find something they really like, they will go back to that as a foundation. setting yourself apart is, that's a really hard challenge, I think, that every brand deals with, right? How do we set ourselves apart? And every candidate.

You

Jessie Ott (30:49)
Well, did anybody predict this three-tiered system to kind of crash the way it did? I mean, what is going on with RNDC? Does Reyes really need to do this? Is this good? Is this good?

Caitlyn LuBell (30:56)
Listen, hum.

Humpty Dumpty has had cracks

for a long time. you know, we've been talking about all the challenges of the industry for quite a few years now. And I think it's now just hitting the fan, right? And I don't know, let's see what's gonna happen.

Jessie Ott (31:15)
⁓ what, Ben, what have you seen in your consultancy and your clients when they come to you and they say, Hey, I want to launch a brand. Do you tell them just do one SKU do three SKUs do five visit? Is it, does it matter kind of what the category is? Like if you're doing a wine, do you need a chard in a cab? Or if you're doing an RTD, do you need like three flavors to expand that footprint?

Ben Salisbury (31:39)
it's such a great question. And it does really matter. It does really vary by the category, right? But I love to tell the story of Yeti. If you go back to the early, early days of Yeti, know, the coolers, they had one color, right? It was like a sky blue, and that was it. It wasn't until many years later that they introduced new colors, introduced new products. And now it seems like every day there's a new product.

Jessie Ott (31:39)
What is, what's answer there?

Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (32:04)
There's a great deal of wisdom to learn from that model. They wanted to build the brand and prove with a small set of skews first. After that, using line extension was the primary means for growth. You have to be able to save some gunpowder for growth later. So I think as a general rule, because it's so crowded, you're better off focusing on fewer skews than you are throwing a bunch of things against the wall to see what sticks. Now, the wine people have a different

dilemma. It often comes with the territory that you're going to be producing multiple SKUs of product and that's fine. But you shouldn't be having multiple tiers of the same SKU. I mean, you just don't want to take on too many products at once because somebody has to execute that. It's much more difficult to execute a large portfolio than a small one.

Caitlyn LuBell (32:52)
And don't you think it

dilutes also from its own brand? like, then how do you tell which one's the top seller when you have so many brands, right? It like dilutes the brand itself.

Ben Salisbury (33:00)
And dilution

is a great term because you have a finite amount of time, finite amount of people, financial resources. Do you want to concentrate those resources towards a successful launch or do you want to dilute it across a lot of markets and a lot of products? And so that's a really good point, Caitlin, is the dilution. That's the number one reason to stay focused. But really, focus applies across so many things, not just your

portfolio and the size of your portfolio, but the markets that you're in and the channels that you're in and the consumers that you're purchasing, it's better off to focus and go deep instead of trying to go wide because it dilutes your efforts and your resources.

Caitlyn LuBell (33:41)
think that's entrepreneurship 101 though, right? Like when I was launching BoostViz, I had all these different ideas. I wanted to do like a networking events and I wanted to do a mentor program and a wellness program and all this stuff and all my advisors and coaches and mentors and stuff. were like, focus, like pick one thing, dig into it. And I said, well, I really want to help people get jobs, right? And they're like, great, focus on that.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (33:41)
And just.

Caitlyn LuBell (34:06)
then you can roll out some other things if you feel that you want to, but don't delude the brand. know, people are going to say, what is BoozBiz then? Right. And so I think it's important with everything, with every entrepreneurial project. Right.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (34:19)
I think in addition to just the public perception of the brand, if you think operationally, what goes into having multiple SKUs? I mean, let's say you're an RTD and instead of, and Jesse, you would use the term one hero product.

Caitlyn LuBell (34:28)
That too.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (34:35)
If you're doing three, four, five different flavors or skews, or, know, a low proof, high proof, it's a lot more, it's a lot more operationally as far as keeping track of, huh, you've got different inventory. You've got money tied up in inventory. one flavor is not doing well, cause it just doesn't taste well. People don't love it. You're sitting on that product.

I personally, think go with the hero skew, do it well, really just execute the hell out of it. and then allow the market to tell you what they want to see. ⁓

Caitlyn LuBell (35:10)
Exactly.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (35:11)
To say, my God, I love product X. wish they would also do this flavor. Okay. Turn it into what ⁓ &Ms did many years ago. We're going to add a new color blue, pink, or purple. I was a huge, huge successful campaign. Like, all right, tell us what flavor you want next. us. mean, because nowadays you've got a lot of drinks going lower ABV for sessionable enjoyment or the cut water beatbox buzz balls route where it's double.

digit ABV, like let your customers tell you what you want. But I think already trying to get an account to take one product in is tough. Why are you going to go in with three different skews, five different skews and say, so which ones would you like? ⁓ just focus and execute the, the task and the item at hand.

Caitlyn LuBell (36:01)
Yeah, didn't companies used to do, I haven't seen it a lot. You're making me think lately about like crowdsourcing and like focus groups and things like that, where they would bring in consumers and test products. Like I know my previous company, my mind and spirits company did that. And I don't hear about that anymore. Actually, when I talk to emerging brands, I don't hear that they've done, you know, focus groups or crowdsourcing. It's like, yeah, what do people want? Like,

Doritos, you know, there's all these brands that do that, right? What's the next flavor and what do you want? And I don't know that people are, again, that's about like, look at the markets, where's the need, you know?

Jessie Ott (36:31)
it

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (36:39)
insights are really valuable beyond just data and statistics having the insights and hearing from the consumers mouths what they think of a product. I mean I have a client who

Caitlyn LuBell (36:42)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (36:54)
He loves as a founder, I love the founder led approach, but he sends it once a month. It's an email from the founder. So anyone who's ordered on e-comm, he reaches out, shares some pictures of the new production run, thanks them for their business. And I said, has anyone left reviews? So what do you mean? I said, are people leaving reviews or submitting feedback? you know, the top is really cool. You know, it's on the cork, it's cool, but it breaks off easily or broken the

email or, you know, product is cool. It's good. It's just too sweet. And he said, no, no, we don't really have a place for anyone to leave the reviews. So my suggestion was in his next founder email to say to everyone,

We appreciate you. We'd love to hear your feedback so we can do even better. So we can, our next, you know, release can be something that you guys truly help shape. So if you leave a review at this link and use this promo code, you get free shipping on the next order.

And that way you're receiving the feedback. You're able to pivot accordingly and make, you know, learn what you might not know. We didn't know the, you know, the ornament was breaking off the top.

Uh, hearing what people want, then they're getting a promo code. So they feel good because they're getting free shipping and they're, they're reordering. So that's more velocity and maybe they'll order bottles for, well, I have a bottle, but I got this promo code. My dad would love this. I'm going to order a bottle for him, but the data and the value of, of what the consumer's feedback is, it's invaluable.

Jessie Ott (38:29)
Yeah, 100.

Caitlyn LuBell (38:29)
I mean, it's one of the reasons for

store tastings, right? I always tell brands, got to carve out a store tasting budget. There's too many brands right now. You have to let consumers taste it or it's just going to sit on the shelf and collect dust. Do have a new brand? You need a tasting budget or you need to go and do yourself. Stand in a store for three hours and get feedback in high traffic stores that

You have to do it. You can't just sell into a distributor and just walk away. It just doesn't work like that anymore.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (39:00)
Do folks...

Jessie Ott (39:00)
I think part

of the branding too of a brand, you know, back in the day and, you know, Caitlin, you sold wine. Did you sell wine, Gary? I don't remember. You did.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (39:08)
Yeah, I sold

the whole 190 page catalog at a distribution.

Jessie Ott (39:12)
⁓ yeah, okay. Well, know, wine is a story. It's a hand cell. It's an emotional connection to the winery or the winemaker or something in those lines. And I feel like a lot of these successful companies have really understood the storytelling behind it and are really doing a great job of telling the why, the founder story.

Caitlyn LuBell (39:36)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (39:37)
You know, Julius Grant, he's from Mexico. So he created a single estate with multiple generations of family producers and every vintage, as they call it, like wine, is from a different family.

Caitlyn LuBell (39:49)
Mmm.

Jessie Ott (39:51)
That's a great story.

Caitlyn LuBell (39:51)
that's nice.

Jessie Ott (39:52)
Yeah, and it's additive free and all the things. And so those are kind of the things that are going to be, I think, separating you out from others, you know? And then I think it's very important.

Ben Salisbury (40:02)
⁓ Well,

story is essential, but it's not enough. Like a lot of other things when you're launching a brand, it's not enough to have a great product at a great price and a great package with a great story and a great provenance that just gets you to the starting line. So while a great story is important, and you need to have one, it's not going to carry the day as well as execution will. And I just want to follow up on a point that Caitlin just made.

I'm not a big fan of spending a lot of money on store tastings. And I want to tell you why I have two reasons for it. So just think about this. One is that the level of purchase intent at a tasting demo where somebody randomly walking up to your booth and trying a sample, they may or may not be shopping for that particular category at the time. Now there's definitely value in liquid to lips. No question about it. It's just not very scalable. But the other thing is I would rather

Caitlyn LuBell (40:32)
Mm.

Ben Salisbury (40:54)
to my time getting distribution where the velocity is built in. Like getting it onto a shelf and now I have to do all this work to get it to sell off the shelf. I'm not a fan of that approach. I would rather go somewhere where if I make a placement at this restaurant or bar, that placement generates five to six cases a week just by virtue of you being that low end Chardonnay spot or the mid level Chardonnay spot. my advice to small brands is yes, you need to get liquid to lips, but

If you depend on it too much, you're going to run out of time and money. Make sure that you're like an investment portfolio. A good majority of replacements are at places where the velocity is already automatic. It's already built in. Just being on the shelf isn't going to be enough. That's why I love on premise for certain new brands, because if you get a by the glass or you get it on a cocktail menu, you're going to have built in momentum right out of the gate, whether you do anything or not. You should still do staff training and all that.

Caitlyn LuBell (41:49)
Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (41:50)
I just

want to caution people that there's a lot of things that are good to do, but you know, the old saying, good is the enemy of the best. It's it's it's often isn't enough to get where you want to go with.

Caitlyn LuBell (42:00)
Yeah, I think it's just a piece of the puzzle. And let me say too, when I used to have a budget for store tastings, I went and trained the agency. And I said, give me seven people, I'm gonna dig in, I'm gonna teach them and train them so that they can say the name of the brand properly, understand what they're really selling to the point where people would say to them, do you work for the company? Which is like, okay.

Jessie Ott (42:03)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (42:27)
that was a good, then you're doing a good job, right? In not standing there chewing gum or, you know, just, do you want a taste of tequila? Like you, right, exactly. So I think it's important to do it the right way. And I agree. It's definitely only a piece to the puzzle. I mean, my most successful builds were sitting at the bar, talking to the bartender, scary. And, you know, with my bottle of Torres brandy saying, here's my bottle, make me a drink.

Jessie Ott (42:33)
On the phone.

Caitlyn LuBell (42:55)
Taste it, touch it, smell it, make me a cocktail.

and I'd do a little mini staff training and then I would go to the other end of the bar and do the same thing with the other bartender. And that's how a hundred percent, mean, brands are built on prem, right? And a hundred percent that's you get those ambassadors. That's a real ambassador, right? Now they've taken ownership of the brand. They're excited to sell the brand. And that's definitely where you're going to actually get the real business a hundred percent. So many people want to be in retail, but you can't just throw it on the shelf. mean, New York's, New York,

They don't even use shelf talkers. The stores are as big as somebody's kitchen. And there's nothing you could do to help push it through except for the tastings. And that's why I did them all the time. was like, what else am I going to do? A window or a tasting? Certain markets, right?

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (43:38)
Thank you.

Do you think

the rise of retail tastings, I mean, back in the day, my God, I'm old, but brands were built on premise. That's where you did liquid blips. was just, that was the, that was a rule. It wasn't even like a suggested route.

Caitlyn LuBell (43:54)
always.

Jessie Ott (43:55)
It's true.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (43:59)
And then you want people who enjoy the product at a restaurant or bar to go to a nearby liquor store and say, Hey, do you guys carry? And then that's how it builds. But, you know, we were talking earlier about occasion and just post pandemic. I think that I wonder, has the rise in retail tastings come about because the suffering of the on-premise?

I mean, a, just at the beginning of the pandemic on-premise being shut down. But to me, something that I've found myself repeating a lot is we've lost happy hour and happy hour used to be an occasion, a built in occasion to just adult life where you.

Caitlyn LuBell (44:28)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (44:43)
You communicate and you, you bond together with your colleagues who during the day, Susan from accounting, she might be the meanest woman in the office, but then you go to the bar, you're drinking your beer. lets you try her Negroni figure out you learn with on-prem people working remote now, or, know, two or three days a week in office.

and people not really going out to bars is, we really trying to capture everyone's attention in off-prem? Which I think a recent statistic was the average American goes into a liquor store 1.5 times a year, which blew my mind because I'm there like three times a week. ⁓ But.

Caitlyn LuBell (45:22)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (45:23)
Yeah, I just wonder where is that best place to capture attention from customers or is it social media, digital marketing?

Caitlyn LuBell (45:32)
I think it's got to be a combination of all of it. can't lean too hard into one part of it, right? You have to, I don't know. Ben, what do you think of that? I'm curious to hear your response on that.

Jessie Ott (45:34)
Yeah, balance.

Ben Salisbury (45:44)
Well,

this I do know a lot of money is wasted trying to build a brand and build brand awareness when your ladder is up against the wrong house. Nowadays, it takes an awful lot of money to build a brand with advertising and social media. And social media, just a quick side note, is changing so rapidly. I mean, even just in the last six months. Remember, you probably remember the days if you had a thousand.

Caitlyn LuBell (45:55)
Yeah.

Ben Salisbury (46:09)
friends on Facebook or a thousand Instagram followers and you posted something to Facebook or Instagram, those thousand friends would see it on their feed. That's not the case anymore. You don't see what your friends are posting on the feed. You see what Meta wants you to see is all controlled by the algorithm. So, but yet the average brand is still operating as if, when I post to my fans and followers, they're going to see it. No, they're not. It's so it's real easy to

overemphasize the impact of social media? Very, very easy to do. And then you find yourself spending time and money on creating content and posting to what effect, to know what. So this is another dimension of what we're talking about today. Building a brand, right? I'm using air quotes for those of you listening on the podcast. Building a brand is very different today than it used to be because it's just so crowded.

Jessie Ott (46:44)
Yeah, it's a time suck.

Ben Salisbury (46:59)
It takes tens of millions of dollars to build brand awareness today and so unless you've got a war chest for that, you need a different way. And back to something said earlier in this podcast, it's all about building your own audience. one of the best vehicles for that is email. Email is first party data that cannot be taken away from you. It's not subject to an algorithm at all. You control the messaging, control the frequency, control everything, which means you can also control the growth of your email list.

I think email is one of the most underutilized mediums for growing a brand for startup brands, because you can speak directly to your constituents anytime you want. And to those who say, well, email is dead, nobody likes email, that's just simply not true. What people don't like are crappy emails, promotional email, in-your-face emails, self-serving emails. That's what we're

Jessie Ott (47:44)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (47:47)
And every day,

like you can't, you gotta find the balance. Like if you email me every day, ⁓ I'm unsubscribing.

Ben Salisbury (47:52)
But it.

Jessie Ott (47:56)
You're

Ben Salisbury (47:56)
You know, the number one

reason not to go off on a big tangent, but the number one reason people unsubscribe from email lists is because they get too many crappy emails. You know what the number two reason is? They don't hear from brands often enough. And so that's really eye opening. So if you use email not as a promotional bludgeon, but a way to a relationship, authentic relationships at scale, now you've got a really powerful tool because it's cheap and you can measure the ROI with great precision.

Caitlyn LuBell (48:00)
You

Mmm

Ben Salisbury (48:22)
So I just think that the assortment of plays available to new brand is evolving literally daily. And you have to pay attention to what works and what doesn't so that you don't waste a lot of money. There's so many ways to waste money under the guise of brand awareness.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (48:35)
And then.

Jessie Ott (48:38)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (48:38)
I also

think you can create experiences at a good value, which I mean, I remember the first time I got to go to Napa, I had been selling wine for years and it completely changed me. I mean, to see the grapes on the vines, to touch them, to talk with the winemaker, it was a complete game changer for me. And I know that one time we rented a boat and...

That was a little too pricey. We shouldn't have done that, but in hindsight, but we cruised around Manhattan with our distributor launching three new wines and they talked about it for years. And even just an intimate lunch with a winemaker where I had, you know, senior leaders from the distributor going like, that was a moment that like I got to sit next to the winemaker and

taste the wine with them and eat it with the food. And it was just, and it wasn't very costly. And it, you know, we had probably 15 people and they talked about it for years. So I think, I think there's a way also to create experiences. I think that's Beatbox, right? Like, and that's what Jägermeister used to do, the Jäger music tours, right? And these were experiences and moments where you like took the brand into your heart somehow and had a memory of it. And

You don't have to rent a boat, that was way too costly. But you can do smaller, more intimate experiences that will, I think, have a high impact. I I saw it firsthand. People got to meet Miguel Torres, they never forgot it, and they went out and sold the brand after meeting him.

Jessie Ott (50:10)
There is one more distribution opportunity that Ben, you brought up when we had our call for this podcast, and that was creating a brand that's direct for chains under their blanketed sort of direct, like the Spirits Direct program for Total Wine. Do you want to talk a little bit about that and what that strategy looks like?

Ben Salisbury (50:30)
Yeah, if you're a new brand and you haven't yet launched, you really want to put this into your assortment of possible tools in your toolbox. The Winery Direct and Spirits Direct play. So here's how it works. If you don't, let's take Texas, for example, and you're you're launching in New York or Florida. If you want to get into Texas in a big way and start getting revenue, you could approach.

one of the big chains on a winery director spirits direct deal where you cut out the traditional distributor, use the chain's clearing distributor to legally bring the goods in and they'll put it in every one of their stores. They'll promote it in their flyer. They'll promote it on their website. They'll stack it on the floor. It's because they make so much more profit than by cutting out the middleman. So if you're a small brand just starting out, wine direct and spirits direct could be a great way to bring immediate revenue into the operation.

Caitlyn LuBell (51:11)
Hmm.

Ben Salisbury (51:19)
without having to put somebody in the market or beat the street trying to get new distribution. So that's another example of this velocity that's already built in. Total Wine & More really perfected the Wine and Spirits Direct model, but that caused all of Total Wine's competitors to do likewise. And so go to a big major chain website and look at their, they have different names. Like ABC calls theirs Sourced and Certified. Goody Goody in Texas calls theirs Goody Direct.

Caitlyn LuBell (51:36)
Hmm.

Ben Salisbury (51:46)
They even have these branded names for these programs. But I talked to a lot of people about this and they've never even heard of it. So thank you for bringing that up, Jess. It's a great option for brand new brand. It'll get the revenue. It'll compress the time to revenue so much. And then you can work on, you know, broad distribution in your home market. I have a quick story. I don't know, 10, maybe nine years ago, I had a small family winery.

in Washington state that was literally about to go out of business. They didn't get some revenue soon. I taught them this winery direct thing. Their very first order was a full truckload of wine. was $137,000, 1100 case of wine. Save the company, save their year. Six months later, they ordered a second truckload. They didn't even know this was a thing. So I've seen this time and time again, and it's definitely worth looking into.

Jessie Ott (52:34)
And I think if you're a Spirit brand, something to consider is your size. Because if you want to play in Europe and the UK, you got to have a 700 milliliter. If you want to be in, if you're a retail brand, you have to have a 700. Now, UK is supposed to be changing that, but the retail is still going to be 700. And one thing that I would think is an advantage is you're smaller.

It's less resources and your pricing is going to be lower than anybody else on the shelf. And customers may or may not even realize your bottle is smaller. And so I think that's something to consider.

Caitlyn LuBell (53:08)
Right.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (53:08)
Yeah. But if you've already had it reduced, like if you're

sitting on inventory, especially if you're a smaller player, you know, I had the same conversation with a brand I work with and he has 750s. said, how many bottles of the 750 are you sitting on? Like, are you close to needing more glass in which we can order 700s or?

Do you have a long way to go because to order new packaging when you're sitting on a bunch or especially if you're sitting on seven fifties that have liquid in them that are, sitting it's, it's a tough pill to swallow and you know, an unexpected costs that that comes your way.

Jessie Ott (53:45)
Yeah,

I have a lot of clients that are just switching to the 700s just because why not? If it's allowed in the US, mean, 700s are pretty much accepted everywhere. So I think it's something to consider. know like sometimes brands want to be that one leader size because they want to be the well. So, you know, liters work too. But I think

Caitlyn LuBell (53:54)
Hmph.

Jessie Ott (54:07)
It's something that as you're starting a brand, you really need to consider on what you want for your brand long term.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (54:13)
I also think that that's,

and Ben, I mean, when you and I spoke a few weeks ago, we kind of touched on it. How often we hear from brands that say, God, if only we had met a few months earlier, because they've already done their packaging or their labeling or they're too far along. And Ben, you,

Say it perfectly. our goal is to help our clients avoid costly mistakes. And oftentimes a costly mistake has been made and it's okay. Now let's stay calm. Let's evaluate the situation and you know, work our way out of this, but

Caitlyn LuBell (54:42)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (54:55)
Yes. I mean, Jessie is you saying, you know, if you're a new brand, you're starting, there's so many things to consider that in the past you wouldn't have, or maybe you just didn't have the right eyes on it. not yes, just know what you don't know. Surround yourself with people who do. And even if you don't acknowledge that just asking for objective external perspectives.

you just to have the right eyes on it. I mean, you want to do it right from the start. So that's just a, you know, coming to mind, but yeah, package size is definitely.

Caitlyn LuBell (55:28)
I'm laughing in my head saying size matters, right? But it's so true because I, no, listen, let me tell you something. You know how many times I talked to brands that are super high end, like expensive brands and they want to go into New York and I'm like, are you doing a six pack or a 12 pack? And they're like, well, you know, we got 12 pack. And I'm like, I sold in New York on the street and

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (55:33)
He went, come on, you're a jolts, you're not a good...

Caitlyn LuBell (55:53)
you're an expensive brand, you gotta do six packs. Other states, you might wanna do 12 packs. I mean, you have to pay attention to the market that you're going into, but even the cans, RTDs, I mean, there's all different sizes of RTDs and that makes a big difference. I mean, I remember launching multiple different RTDs in different sizes and you see a difference in the sales. mean, so it really does matter. And that's research and development again of your...

brand in your market wherever you want to go.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (56:25)
And also in New York, having also spent many years selling for a distributor, think about storage space. It's really tough to justify bringing in another 12 pack when you've got essentially a janitor's closet as your storage. A six pack is helpful. And I think a good way to get your brand in there, help them sell it through, help them understand how to move it and get that reorder.

Caitlyn LuBell (56:34)
Exactly.

I mean, that's the catch, right? Getting the reorder is the catch, but.

Jessie Ott (56:52)
And you know the...

The last kind

of point I'll make, and none of us are lawyers, but there's a lot of obvious laws that are in place that vary by state. So when you're reaching out for people, make sure you get a good lawyer because it's going to be important that you follow all the right rules.

Caitlyn LuBell (57:12)
Yeah, I see people miss the whole, you know, legal steps, the compliance all the time, and they, you know, are waiting and waiting and waiting. They get to the front of the line. There's something wrong, something wrong in the label, something missing, whatever, and they go back, back to the drawing board again. And it's, you know, do it right the first time. Hire, hire somebody to help you or consult for you or fractional for you, high level, to help you do this the right way because...

Jessie Ott (57:33)
Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (57:39)
or else you're just wasting money as we've said before.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (57:42)
Yeah. Yeah. an industry colleague who owns a wine company, he and I caught up a few weeks ago and he said, yeah, yeah. So send me your one sheeter. Like, I want to take a look and just see, you know, what you're highlighting is your expertise. And he said, I didn't know you had a master's in law. And I joked that, it's not a JD. It's a master's degree at the focus on legal aspects of business. My sister calls it my fake law degree.

And he chuckled, goes, but like if I were going to spend 50 billable hours with a lawyer, you would be able to cut that down by just get it organized and kind of, said, yeah, I could probably shave off 30, 40 % of the hours. goes, do you have any idea what a savings that is? But I write with these pens, which anyone listening, it's that four color Bic pen with red, green, blue, and black.

Caitlyn LuBell (58:22)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (58:29)
Just yes, be super detail oriented and think about with legal stuff as well. I know it's more so judges than, you know, TTB, ecetera, but it's either the black and white of what the law says or how it's interpreted. So think through what could be somewhat ambiguous, with investor decks and contracts, your vendor contracts, whether it's your co-packer or flavor house, whoever it may be.

Really just do your due diligence and be very cognizant because it's a super compliance driven nuanced industry. So don't underestimate the headaches that come from that.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:05)
Read the fine print. I always tell them read the fine print. Be careful what you're signing. Read the fine print.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:06)
Yes.

Jessie Ott (59:11)
I think we covered quite a bit in our time together here. I really enjoyed speaking with you guys as always and maybe we can do this again later on in the year and see how things develop.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:18)
Thanks for having us.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:25)
gosh,

what a crazy time we are in right now. It's every day, right? You wake up to something else. It's like, wow.

Jessie Ott (59:29)
It is... It is

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:30)
I would not

Jessie Ott (59:31)
weird.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:31)
be in any other industry. I love it. Love it.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:33)
⁓ me neither.

Jessie Ott (59:34)
No.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:37)
Yeah, I think we're all you got to be crazy to love it. But we yeah, it's the best industry ever. just needs a little love and attention right now. I think so.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:39)
We're relaxed.

Jessie Ott (59:46)
Yeah, well there's a lot of unemployed people.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:49)
You're telling me.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (59:51)
But I mean, yeah, Caitlin's wildly tapped in with a deep network.

I mean, her years of executive recruitment. So, you know, hopefully companies recognize the value of bringing on a recruiter and the fact that they can get it done, you know, pretty quickly and know exactly where to pluck the right people.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:00:09)
Yeah, thank you. It's really, it drives me crazy to see them post these jobs and they get over 400 resumes. And I'm like, this is actually when you need my team the most is right now. We just had a client. He doesn't even post an ad. He's a Boomerang client. comes back to us every time he needs to hire, doesn't post a job ad. He just gives us the job. We put two people in front of him. He interviewed the first one. He was like, that's it. Hired her. She's starting today.

Jessie Ott (1:00:19)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:00:37)
It was like, you know how much time we saved him and he says, this is so valuable. I don't have time for this. And this is what you do. And it was, yeah, I wish more people had the budgets to, you know, to really invest in their hiring because it's so important, especially with all the candidates. But I wish we could get every single person a job right now. We're doing our best.

Jessie Ott (1:01:00)
Well, I hear Reyes is hiring. ⁓

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:03)
Yeah, they need me they definitely need me but yeah, if anybody has a connect, please, ⁓ please connect me. I'll

sell you send you a referral fee. That's for sure.

Jessie Ott (1:01:15)
Here you go.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (1:01:17)
Employee appreciation day was last week, right? Got one of those posts go up. We're all navigating together.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:23)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (1:01:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Any, anything, any final thoughts, Ben?

Ben Salisbury (1:01:27)
No, it's been a good discussion. appreciate you having me on.

Jessie Ott (1:01:30)
Yeah, thanks for coming. Thanks for taking time out of your day to join us and, you know, talk about what we're passionate about, what we do every day.

You Gary?

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (1:01:38)
This was a lot of,

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:38)
Yeah.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (1:01:39)
no, I look, this was and always is a lot of fun. It's great knowing you guys for several years when we can sort of do these, these round table discussions. And yeah, I hope, you know, anyone listening here, know, Ben and I are available, you know, Caitlin for recruitment where we want to see the best for the industry. It's.

We've grown up in it. love it and I'm truly passionate. So no, thanks. This is, this is fun. I'll probably stay on and keep talking after you guys have closed out your browsers.

Jessie Ott (1:02:11)
Caitlin?

Caitlyn LuBell (1:02:13)
No, no, thank you for having us definitely. I think, I think, you know, it's not that any of us are trying to discourage anybody from launching a brand. It's just to launch it the right way so that you're not pouring a bunch of money down the drain and taking market share and then running out. So do it the right way. And I think it's really important.

We love new emerging brands, right? It's very exciting. We love new imports and all the things, but you just, you know, it's important to consult with the right people to do it the right way is all, but thank you. mean, yeah, I think we all love this industry more than we should and it's been our life. yeah, appreciate you having us.

Jessie Ott (1:02:52)
Yeah, it's our life.

And hopefully for at least another 10 years. I need to work another 10 years. I think once you find your niche in what you do, you don't ever really retire. think you know, the traditional way of retiring. I saw my father-in-law go through it and he started teaching. Just because he's like, I can't sit at home and do nothing.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:02:59)
Yeah, I got 20. I got 20 in me, I think.

and

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (1:03:22)
That's the thing about being an entrepreneur is you can kind of just continue that, pick up, do whatever you want, part of the business.

So with that, I thank you all and hopefully, you know, maybe we'll regroup later in the year. So I will let you all get back to it and wave goodbye. All right. Bye. Have a good week.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:03:31)
Thanks, Jesse.

Yes, I love it.

Bye, thank you.

Gary Schneidkraut (BAC) (1:03:41)
Bye.