Special Edition Round Table Discussion 2025 Review and 2026 Outlook

This week 📢I talk🎙️with Kate Jerkens at Uncle Nearest and Caitlyn LuBell at BoozeBiz and we discuss the beverage industry in 2025 and 2026. 👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂 😁

👀📹 Watch here: 👉👉 [PASTE HERE]🚀✨🍹

2025 was a reset year for beverage 🍷🍺🍹 RTDs surged, NA grew, costs spiked & hiring shifted. We break down data, trends, distributor chaos & what’s coming in 2026. 👀  👉 @ThirstyThursdaysat3PMEST

2025 shook the beverage industry to its core 🍸📉. From RTD dominance and NA growth, to California distributor chaos, premium pricing pressure, and talent market stress, this episode breaks it all down—no fluff, just real talk.

Key Takeaways 🔑

• 📉 Growth slowed—but didn’t stop
• 🍹 RTDs are winning on convenience & price
• 🚫 NA still struggles with sugar + shelf life
• 🏬 Distribution strategy > national expansion
• 🧠 Storytelling + velocity matter more than ever
• 💼 Hiring is tighter, salaries pressured
• 🔄 2025 = reset | 2026 = change + growth

🎯 Why this matters:
If you’re building, selling, hiring, or distributing in beverage—this episode helps you see the chessboard, not just the pieces.

Describe 2025 and 2026 in One Word

Jessie Ott
2025:

“My word was to level up on the "experience” of enjoying a cocktail.

2026:

"My word is "hopeful". I’m hoping that this is the new foundation of what’s to come.”

Caitlyn LuBell
2025:

“My word for 2025 was "evolution.”

2026:

“My word for 2026 is "growth"… we can only go up from here.”

Kate Jerkens
2025:

“I think "reset" was a great word. I still think reset is applicable.”

2026:

“Mine is "change"… something’s got to change and I believe it will.”

⏱️ Chapter Descriptions

• 0:00 Welcome + Why 2025 Was a Reset
• 1:02 Meet the Guests (BoozeBiz & Uncle Nearest)
• 2:30 Who Really Holds the Money? Generational Wealth
• 5:22 Economic Signals: Growth, Inflation & LEIs
• 7:18 Premiumization & Consumer Behavior
• 9:40 Inventory Digestion & Distributor Reality
• 11:30 California Distribution Chaos Explained
• 15:42 Smaller Distributors vs Big Houses
• 18:00 Pricing Wars & National Market Impact
• 21:44 Military, Multi-Outlet & Channel Performance
• 22:26 RTDs, NA Mixers & Brand Winners
• 25:30 The Real Cost of $30 Cocktails
• 29:00 Why RTDs Win on Convenience & Cost
• 33:55 Hiring Challenges & Salary Compression
• 41:10 Tastings, Education & Velocity
• 45:15 Why 2025 Was a Reset Year
• 50:07 Unemployment & Workforce Mismatch
• 56:

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!! Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome + Why 2025 Was a Reset
• 1:02 Meet the Guests (BoozeBiz & Uncle Nearest)
• 2:30 Who Really Holds the Money? Generational Wealth
• 5:22 Economic Signals: Growth, Inflation & LEIs
• 7:18 Premiumization & Consumer Behavior
• 9:40 Inventory Digestion & Distributor Reality
• 11:30 California Distribution Chaos Explained
• 15:42 Smaller Distributors vs Big Houses
• 18:00 Pricing Wars & National Market Impact
• 21:44 Military, Multi-Outlet & Channel Performance
• 22:26 RTDs, NA Mixers & Brand Winners
• 25:30 The Real Cost of $30 Cocktails
• 29:00 Why RTDs Win on Convenience & Cost
• 33:55 Hiring Challenges & Salary Compression
• 41:10 41:10
• 45:15 Why 2025 Was a Reset Year
• 50:07 Unemployment & Workforce Mismatch
• 56:20 Words for 2026: Growth, Change, Hope
• 59:00 Final Thoughts + What Comes Next

Transcript

Jessie Ott (00:00)
for 2025, my word was level up it, experiments, experience, know, in a, Kate, you probably, don't know, you didn't talk about the experience you had around that $30 cocktail, but I bet if there was some more pomp and circumstance around it and it was an actual full drink and you 30 bucks would...

Kate Jerkens (00:16)
Yeah, I would have liked to take a banner to drop and some like smoke

to come out or something. I'm just kidding.

Jessie Ott (00:21)
Right? Exactly.

Caitlyn LuBell (00:22)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (00:22)
Like, charge those prices, but make it worth it. Right? And I think as we look at what happened in 2025, I think my word is hopeful, because I'm hopeful for the economy. I'm hopeful that this tariff business is going to slow down and get settled out. And we move forward. And, the industry continues to grow in the new way that we're supposed to grow.

Caitlyn LuBell (00:26)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (00:26)
Yeah, yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (00:32)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (00:48)
It's supply and demand, right? The consumers are going to tell us what brands are going to make it.

Kate Jerkens (00:48)
I like that. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessie Ott (00:53)
But I think there's going to be a lot of pullback in the next year to two years.

Caitlyn LuBell (00:57)
Well, I'm going to put the positive juju out there. My word for 2026 is growth because I feel like we can only go up from here. I feel that we're in a real lull in the roller coaster here. I'm my word for 2025 was evolution. And I felt it a little more on a personal aspect than professional. But I definitely felt it. But I think growth

Kate Jerkens (01:08)
Fair.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:24)
Now we're kind of at rock bottom a little bit, so I think we can only go up from here. I'm optimistic that the industry is going to continue to grow in a positive way.

Kate Jerkens (01:35)
Yeah, think mine is change. But that's all it's personal and it's everything but change change. Something's got to something's got to change right and I believe it will. I think reset was a great word. I still think reset is applicable. I'm bringing in change into 2026 and looking forward to reflecting on the year in the next couple of weeks and bringing that change into 2026.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:41)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:59)
Mmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (02:00)
Yeah, me too. I love it. Let's do it, ladies. I can't wait. I'm very excited. We're starting off the year strong

Kate Jerkens (02:01)
Do it.

Jessie Ott (02:03)
Yeah, let's go 2026. Somebody's gotta get her business rolling.

Kate Jerkens (02:06)
Woo, we need ya.

Somebody!

Jessie Ott (02:43)
Hello everybody and welcome to Thursday Thursdays. I have a special segment today where we review all of 2025 and some maybe some inside into 2026. I have Caitlyn LuBell and Kate Jerkins. Caitlyn, would you like to introduce yourself?

Caitlyn LuBell (02:58)
Yes, Caitlyn LuBell founder of BoozeBiz. We are recruiting agency for the beverage industry and our whole team is from the industry. And we help nationally across the US, everything from admin to C-suite, sales marketing, you name it. We help people find jobs.

Kate Jerkens (03:16)
Hi, good morning or afternoon, whoever's watching. I am Kate Jerkins. I'm the Chief Business Officer at Uncle Nearest. One of the founding folks here at Uncle Nearest has here since day one. I oversee all things sales, marketing, and distribution.

Jessie Ott (03:31)
Awesome. Well, I'm super excited to have you here. I'm sorry that we don't have Julie and Erica here, but we're a force and we're wrecking with, right? We're gonna, we got a lot of, we got this. And I've got some slides I want to show you. I'm gonna go through them fairly quickly, because I don't want to focus on them a lot, but I think it does kind of tell a story. And you know me, I'm always looking to see how the economy is coming, whether we're looking for a recession. I do kind of have a sidebar.

Caitlyn LuBell (03:38)
Thanks.

Kate Jerkens (03:39)
It's right. We

got this. We got this.

Jessie Ott (03:59)
slide I'm going to start with only because I just found it very interesting in terms of power and what I mean by power in terms of money and messaging that is happening commercially, you know, or on the internet, whatever. And I'm going to show you this slide here.

Okay, here we go. So I don't know if you've ever heard of Visual Capitalist, but they had this ⁓ post out a few months ago and I was really taken by it because it kind of shows you the baby boomers have half the wealth and only 24 % of the population. And so when you think about the messaging and the power, whether it be political or non-political, it doesn't matter. You think about who's

Kate Jerkens (04:23)
I

Jessie Ott (04:45)
Who's those?

you know, who has the wealth to pay for that? And it's just, think it's interesting and I'm interested to see how this shift changes over the next 10 to 20 years. Obviously, hopefully the Gen X is going to, you know, get that wealth from the baby boomers, because it's gonna translate down. But I just feel like, I just felt like this is a very interesting slide. I mean, we don't expect millennials in Gen Z, right? Because they're just kids. But when you look at,

Kate Jerkens (04:49)
Right?

Right.

Jessie Ott (05:13)
When you look at the ⁓ baby boomers, you remember that, and when they were in their thirties, that's when the stock market took off. Whereas we as Gen Xers got caught up in the dot com bust. So that really hurt our growth. And so we're, we're, we're able to, to, have less wealth based on what are the generation before us had. And now the millennials have even less, right? Cause it's, it's harder to get jobs. It's, it's, you know, they're living at home longer.

Kate Jerkens (05:36)
Bye.

Jessie Ott (05:39)
All those types of things. I don't know. just I thought it was really interesting to to to bring up.

Kate Jerkens (05:45)
It's such a, hate, this is gonna be like so morbid, but these baby boomers in the next 10 plus years that, I hate to say this, but that pie will move into their family, like to Gen X, right? As they leave money behind, you'll see that shift too, you know? As somebody who's experienced like parents having passed and things like that, like you, that, you know, you're gonna see that shift a little bit, but it's a, that's pretty alarming, honestly, to see that.

Jessie Ott (05:58)
Yep.

Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (06:12)
actually find

Jessie Ott (06:12)
It

really is.

Caitlyn LuBell (06:13)
it surprising because when I look at my parents' generation and my grandparents' generation, they actually lived a lot longer than they were told they were going to, right? It was like you retire at 62 or 65 and you're gone by 70, but now people are living so much longer because modern medicine and all the things, surprisingly, even with our food being so challenging for us.

Kate Jerkens (06:15)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (06:39)
You know, they I feel like I've heard a lot of Gen X is that sandwich generation where we're not only still taking care of the kids because they're not quite there yet, but we're also taking care of the parents and the elders because they are running out of money. So that's actually a very surprising statistic for me to see. Maybe I just don't come from a wealthy family, but I it's, you know, I see the elders.

Kate Jerkens (06:48)
Yeah. ⁓

Jessie Ott (07:02)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (07:07)
running out of money because they're living longer and just not having prepared for it throughout their life. I mean, my great uncle passed away at 92 last year and he was in full on panic mode because he was living so long and he was afraid that he was gonna run out of money. it's interesting statistics.

Jessie Ott (07:15)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (07:25)
That's interesting.

Jessie Ott (07:28)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (07:28)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (07:29)
Yeah. I just, it struck me. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to save this for the podcast because I think this could be a great discussion.

Caitlyn LuBell (07:34)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (07:35)
I like it,

yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (07:36)
So this is just a quick summary of what the results I found were. ⁓ Growth has slowed. The word is slow. We're slower than 2024. We're still growing. ⁓ And the one indicator that I found ⁓ is more of the emotional component of people and businesses on the economy versus actual facts. So.

As we know, prices are continuing to rise. That's pretty bad. I they're not really dipping too much, ⁓ except for gas, right? Gas is so cheap right now. And then I presented this last year Well, yeah, California, you're bad. You're the highest in the nation. Fair.

Kate Jerkens (08:08)
Bye.

Sorry.

Yeah, it's just nasty

no matter where you look at it. There, in California.

Jessie Ott (08:26)
You're right. You're right. I forgot about that. ⁓ I presented this in consumer spending. We were a little bit nervous on. Well, that's kind of shifted. these are all ⁓ the Fed of St. Louis. It's called FRED. These are all charts that I grab for each of these economic indicators. And they're all going positive. This is just for 2025. So that's a really good sign. And I put a

Kate Jerkens (08:29)
Hahaha.

Jessie Ott (08:51)
I put a yellow X here for the LEI, which is a combination of 10 different things. It's the consumers and businesses that are feeling they're nervous about. That was the leading cause of the cautious LEI indicator. So the economy is strong. It's not as strong as other years, but it's still moving in the right direction. And again, I'm not an economist here.

Just to say, just to put it out there. Black Friday was up over last year. Now they're saying that people in the stores were less, they buy, ⁓ know, the Black Friday sales and Cyber Monday sales are up. So this is all really a good sign.

Caitlyn LuBell (09:32)
So they said that they're buying more expensive items, less items, but more expensive, which is definitely where what wine is seeing and spirits even, but definitely what wine is seeing as well. People are, yeah, trading up and drinking less or buying less, but better, more premium products.

Jessie Ott (09:43)
Yeah, more-

Kate Jerkens (09:53)
I think the Black Friday online sales are very interesting. So some brands that I happen to love, you know, let's call it aloe, also like aloe yoga, their online Black Friday sale started like on Monday. Do you know what mean? So I'm super interested on how they're pulling some of this stuff, because I do think a lot of brands, I saw them going for longer. And then I wonder what Cyber Monday will actually be in the future because Black Friday seems to be so

Jessie Ott (10:06)
Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (10:08)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (10:14)
You're right.

Kate Jerkens (10:22)
like you couldn't have paid me to get in my car and gone to a store on Black Friday this year. You know?

Caitlyn LuBell (10:25)
Yeah, definitely.

Jessie Ott (10:27)
Nope. No, I

sat in a couch and I had my computer and I went shopping. That's what I did. That's a good point, Kate. That's a really good point. Yeah, the sales did last a lot longer this year.

Kate Jerkens (10:33)
Yeah, exactly it.

Yeah, like you didn't have to get it by midnight on Friday, like all of a sudden Saturday we're still going or whatever it was, you know.

Jessie Ott (10:50)
Yep,

exactly. There's less pressure. I mean, remember the days when people would go into stores and get trampled upon? Buying stuff?

Kate Jerkens (10:53)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (10:56)
was seeing videos

Kate Jerkens (10:57)
Yeah,

Caitlyn LuBell (10:57)
of like the the cabbage patch dolls yeah ⁓

Kate Jerkens (10:58)
for video games and things. Yep, yep.

Jessie Ott (11:01)
Yes, cabbage patch dolls. Yes, yes, yes.

Kate Jerkens (11:04)
Aww.

RIP Cabbage

Jessie Ott (11:09)
So I always like to look at consumer debt. It's definitely the highest it's ever been. Credit card balances are higher. Loan, student loan delinquencies are happening more frequently. ⁓ But there's nothing in here that's alarming at this point. So that's good.

So this is just kind of overall general, and if you guys have any feedback. I think there is still volume pressure in the wine industry. I think that they have a lot of bulk wine. I know they had a ton of it this year, so hopefully they've kind of sold through some of that and more equal balance the production to sales. And I think the inventory turns is something that is going to be a major factor on who's going to win the game.

I think in 2026, because if you need, I think you need to focus on the stores that are your partners and selling your product to get as much velocity as you can versus trying to spread out too thin. And I think that's the strategy that's gonna.

Kate Jerkens (12:07)
Yeah, you need

displays and presence and education in the stores where you know you can do the best right now. Yeah, having it everywhere is not helpful.

Jessie Ott (12:15)
Yeah, and that's for...

It's not. And that's for wine, beer, spirits, not elk, whatever.

Kate Jerkens (12:18)
Everything.

Jessie Ott (12:21)
⁓ Beer is flat to down. NA beer is still strong. You know, the regional pull, we still hear that, especially in RTDs, not just beer, because they're using the beer distributors to build that community. And those are some great success stories I think we saw in 2025. Yeah, same velocity pull. I think they're soft. I have a chart that shows a multi-outlet plus the military.

Kate Jerkens (12:21)
100%.

Jessie Ott (12:48)
⁓ probably some inventory indigestion or digestion this year because I know that there's a gluttony of it but we should be through all the COVID levels now don't you guys think?

Kate Jerkens (12:59)
Yeah, look, there was you had COVID, you had all this growth, you had these, you know, especially the public companies expecting to see that same growth and a lot of pressure going to distributors to continue to buy at the same rate. And so we know that there's distributors with ample inventory on the floors that in the last year, last year and a half. So to your point, the digestion is is important and you'd hope that

we'll see something better that we've had the depletes that were needed in these categories at these distributors so that, and then we can start getting back to kind of like regular buying patterns from the distributor. So take consumer growth out of it, but looking at just can distributors get into better patterns now.

Jessie Ott (13:37)
patterns. Okay.

Do you, are you still seeing the price decreases in California?

Kate Jerkens (13:46)
Yes, would say. Yeah, definitely. then, you know, but California is this animal this year in general, because and this is I just want to say for the record, because I'm partners with R &DC in many markets, but with R &DC shutting down in California, it caused, you know, this kind of crazy shift where people didn't know where to get your so if you're with R &DC and you were immediately with another big guy, you know, stores.

Jessie Ott (13:47)
to get by them.

Kate Jerkens (14:12)
like bars, restaurants didn't know where you were. So there's like, there's kind of a little bit of chaos that have that ensued in California. And then there's people now trying to make up for that chaos, right? By the prices have gotten crazy, I would say. It's not just retail, but you're also seeing some crazy deals that are happening in the on-premise as well. Again, to make up for these this kind of destabilized time period, where no one kind of knew which way was up or down or left or right, you know, and that's gonna happen when

Jessie Ott (14:30)
Really?

Kate Jerkens (14:40)
major distributor who had, think it was 2,500 plus suppliers kind of out and about looking for a new partner.

Caitlyn LuBell (14:45)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (14:49)
Can you talk about where you guys ended up?

Kate Jerkens (14:50)
So yeah, California is going to take a minute. Yeah. So we

actually, ⁓ we ended up with classic wine and spirits, which is now classic wine and spirits. It was just classic wine. ⁓ so our strategy was, ⁓ because there was going to be so much competition going into these larger guys. And these are guys that we were partners with in other markets. We were looking for somebody a little bit on the smaller side to that we could grow with and help them grow and that, and we could all grow together. And so really pleased with how that.

been. The advantages are less, less rules, less regulations, less layers, meaning, we just did a big sales blitz in December with them in California. Big distributors will not let you do work with some distributors and things like that. We were able to have Victoria, our master blender come in and do GSMs in the middle of the week. And then in December, right after Thanksgiving, Fawn came to town and did GSMs with them. they

Caitlyn LuBell (15:31)
No way. Right?

Kate Jerkens (15:45)
GSM just for us to be so those are the advantages right when you're working with somebody where you there's no layers and it's like how are going to grow this business together and let's do things that maybe we wouldn't normally do and so that part's been really neat. I say it over and over again it's the less layers is is wonderful. Now the challenges are less people on the street.

Jessie Ott (15:45)
That's great.

Kate Jerkens (16:07)
But that's going to grow as they grow. And so we're just working with them and partnering with them as best as we can. I would say I'm very impressed with how it's gone so far. I think there's a big advantage to being able to touch every single one of those salespeople, their salespeople, and be able to give them as much education as possible right off the bat that will help us in the long run for sure.

Jessie Ott (16:27)
Yeah, because you guys, yeah. And you have such a great story to tell. It's like an emotional connection to a brand that these guys can go out and sell and talk about. And you want them to have that power behind them.

Caitlyn LuBell (16:28)
That's great, congratulations. I'm glad that's working out for you.

Kate Jerkens (16:30)
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Right!

Right. And we had the opportunity to sit

in small rooms. You sit in small rooms and you can tell them that story and they can ask questions and they can touch and speak to the CEO and the master blender and ask those questions. And it's no one's fault. But in the bigger houses, you just don't have that connection. It happens over time, but not as fast, right? It's you got to do it a few times and the timing's got to be right and all that kind of stuff. We just had the ability to be able to work with them and be able to

Jessie Ott (16:55)
So cool.

Kate Jerkens (17:11)
get them in front of one another so much faster than we would have anywhere else.

Jessie Ott (17:15)
That's fantastic. Did they end up picking up a lot of brands or were they pretty selective about the brands that they picked?

Kate Jerkens (17:16)
So yeah, yeah, it's been great. We're really pleased.

They're slowly, they slowly are like where their premium whiskey, but they've picked up some other spirits. mean, so very, so it's Bronco wine and classic wine is like, you know, it's all kind of one in the same. so obviously they picked up more wine. That's their bread and butter. But yeah, they've started to pick up some other spirits and I think they will too. They want to progressively grow, but not grow at a rate that they can't keep up with and be able to kind of have the personal attention that they've always that they've been known for. is very much like a family owned

Jessie Ott (17:45)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (17:48)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (17:50)
business and so that attention to detail and that personal connection remains.

Jessie Ott (17:57)
That's fantastic. That's exciting. I'm excited for you guys out there. That's awesome.

Kate Jerkens (17:58)
So yeah, very pleased. Thank

you. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. you know, I just sending all the love to everybody in California because it's not been an easy year, just with with everything and you know, we the beginning of the year started with the fires as well. So we've kind of just had this sort of like, ongoing challenge going in and again, no offense to R &D. But once they decided they had to shut down, you know, that was sort of the beginning of like,

Jessie Ott (18:09)
Mm-mm.

Caitlyn LuBell (18:17)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (18:26)
the focus and everything having to change. So it's been a challenging year in California, but I do believe, I think everyone's stabilizing. think people are in the houses they need to be, so to speak. And hopefully this will be a much, we'll start off stronger in 2026. Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (18:39)
Yeah, that's really good to hear actually.

Jessie Ott (18:40)
Do you think that was part of the

problem with RNDC then? They just had too many levels in order to get things done?

Kate Jerkens (18:47)
I think it's levels, but there's so many comps. It's so complicated here. It's so expensive to run your business in California. And I never knew the real details of what the union has, you know, and God bless you, but what they had negotiated for the salespeople. It's a lot. you know, it may not be enough for everybody, but what they're guaranteed and then on top of it, the commissions.

Jessie Ott (18:55)
It is.

Kate Jerkens (19:15)
are high. And if you're somebody like R &DC, who then lost a couple partners this year, and not just a couple, but some big guys, but your salespeople are still guaranteed to make the same amount of money, even though your revenue is going to drop dramatically. Like I understand completely how it just wasn't sustainable. I mean, it's, it'll be interesting to see because Reyes, don't believe his union breakthrough is not, but it'll be interesting to see how long that that

Jessie Ott (19:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (19:44)
because the Union is very strong here. So it'll be interesting to see.

Jessie Ott (19:48)
Well, and you know, a lot of California pricing doesn't stay in just California. I've been in Texas where I was working with a couple who had a wine club. And so we were trying to sell them some wines and they're like, well, it's $20 cheaper in California. I can't sell this to my customer because they're going to go and look at the price in California and they're going to say no. I want it. But they don't think about transportation and all the extra costs that go into something like that. so

Kate Jerkens (19:59)
Mmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (20:14)
Yeah, California, the discounted prices certainly affect other parts of the country.

Kate Jerkens (20:20)
It does and people use wine finder and they use all these things. So yeah, we have retailers in Chicago, Texas, New Jersey, New York that will call us out sometimes because they're like, how are they getting this kind of price in New York? And it leads to some challenging conversations for sure. For sure.

Jessie Ott (20:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (20:34)
Yeah, as far

as the Union, I mean, I worked in Union, you know, I worked in New York for years and years and with Southern directly working for Southern and then as a supplier through Southern and the Union is definitely strong in New York, but it doesn't necessarily go out further than, you know, the major wine and spirits distributors. So I don't believe any of the beer

Kate Jerkens (20:56)
Right?

Caitlyn LuBell (20:57)
distributors are unionized or anything like that. I'm not positive. I may be wrong about that, but I don't believe so. So I think it was really just kind of like Southern and Empire unionized, but it didn't have a trickle effect out into the industry with the mid to smaller distributors. They're definitely not unionized. I mean, I don't know if that's relevant to California at all, but just for foresight purposes, maybe, you know.

Kate Jerkens (21:06)
interesting.

Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, but

I guess I don't know the number of people that and I may have gotten it wrong with the number of sites. I believe R &D had to, I think the layoff was 2500 people. You think about those are if they're going into these other distributors, there's going to be this expectation at some point, you know. It'll be interesting to see. Definitely interesting to see. But it does make the business it does. It makes the business expensive. And again, no

Caitlyn LuBell (21:42)
Potentially. Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (21:50)
You know, people, this is also an expensive state to live in. And so when I looked at what those guarantees were. Yeah. But, but I'll tell you like, even though it's a, you know, for the, R and DC, if you're any distributors, a lot of money to pay these individuals, it's still not necessarily a high enough wage to, it's just, this is an expensive state. So I think that's the crux of it all. It just became too expensive.

Caitlyn LuBell (21:54)
That's right.

Jessie Ott (21:55)
Yes. And highly taxed.

Caitlyn LuBell (22:09)
Enough. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (22:13)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (22:16)
Don't forget R &DC had not been in California for very long. They came in and took over the Young's model. And you you got to sometimes decide how long you can keep that up.

Jessie Ott (22:22)
Youngs.

Yeah, very true. Yeah, well, keep up.

Kate Jerkens (22:27)
definitely operates very differently here than anywhere else.

Caitlyn LuBell (22:30)
I'm glad to hear that

it's settling down and you know, we've been, I've been hearing the same thing on my side, just that it's, you know, we were kind of leaving California alone for a bit, although trying to help.

Jessie Ott (22:33)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (22:41)
Everybody was like, let him breathe over there. No one talked.

Caitlyn LuBell (22:43)
Well, we

Jessie Ott (22:44)
Let me ⁓ group.

Caitlyn LuBell (22:45)
were certainly trying to help people get jobs in California because a lot of people were scrambling. But as far as when we talked to emerging brands and they're looking at California, we're like, don't even think about it. Give it a minute. They need some time. Wait till 2026 before, or else, yeah, you're going to get lost in the shuffle.

Kate Jerkens (22:50)
Exactly, help them get jobs for sure.

No.

Give him a minute for sure.

Caitlyn LuBell (23:08)
The people who are already in distribution need to get stabilized. So like give those guys a minute to find their homes and then you can break into the market. But ⁓ not quite yet. Maybe look at some other states first.

Kate Jerkens (23:13)
Exactly.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, it's also an expensive state to do business in. So smaller emerging brands really have to decide, do you want to get into the whole state or like, mean, just honestly, like owning Southern California could take years and years, right? So you got to look at the state's strategic, almost like its own little country and decide, like you could really just like own the West side and be amazing here and do very, very well.

Caitlyn LuBell (23:43)
Right.

Kate Jerkens (23:45)
So much airtime for California today.

Jessie Ott (23:45)
Alright.

Caitlyn LuBell (23:47)
Well, they had the biggest struggle bus, I think, of the year, right? They take the flag of the biggest challenges going on in the industry nationally.

Kate Jerkens (23:48)
Exactly. Indeed. Indeed.

Jessie Ott (23:49)
They're important!

Yeah. ⁓

Kate Jerkens (23:57)
Exactly.

Jessie Ott (23:59)
So overall, total multi-outlet is about down 2%. Military kind of is between 3 and 5 % except for the Marines, which is up, which is nice to see.

Kate Jerkens (24:00)
Interesting.

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (24:09)
I wanted to look at prices and see if prices, average prices, they're trading up or trading down, looks like, this prices look like they stayed pretty stable with the exception of a little movement of promotional items.

⁓ Only two categories are positive and that's pre-mixed cocktails and the non-alcoholic mixers.

So if you look at pre-mixed cocktails, no surprises here. Buzzballz, Cutwater, On The Rocks, Surfside, High Noon, Sun Cruiser we've seen this all year. Really? ⁓

Kate Jerkens (24:40)
mean, BuzzBallz

have a year, by the way. Holy cow.

Jessie Ott (24:46)
Yeah

Kate Jerkens (24:46)
I mean, I see it. I do see it everywhere. And the sizes that they've got, they've evolved to the larger sizes and stuff are really smart. I mean, I see it everywhere.

Jessie Ott (24:55)
Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (24:57)
Yeah, you do.

Kate Jerkens (24:58)
Wow.

Jessie Ott (24:58)
Yep. And you know, you think about Sazerac, they're buying so many brands. I don't know why they want to do that. If you look at non-alcoholic mixers, Mr. and Mrs. T's, Roses, look at Fever Tree

Caitlyn LuBell (25:11)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (25:12)
I didn't even know

Kate Jerkens (25:13)
have

Jessie Ott (25:13)
Private

Kate Jerkens (25:13)
a year! Holy cow!

Jessie Ott (25:13)
Label was... Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (25:16)
It's good brand.

Jessie Ott (25:17)
It is a great brand. And they do really good with partnerships.

Kate Jerkens (25:18)
It's a great brand.

Caitlyn LuBell (25:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, they do partner with a lot of brands for sure.

Kate Jerkens (25:21)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (25:24)
So this is just for the month of November, know, kind of what we've seen here, Cutwater, Crown Royal, and that's because they had a flavor launch, and then Buffalo Trace. And if you look at it for ⁓ just multi outlet, doesn't change a whole lot, because there's, you know, obviously a lot more volume there. But there's only in the top 30,

Kate Jerkens (25:43)
The Buffalo Trace

piece is interesting because it's so positive. You're seeing a lot more Buffalo Trace everywhere. I feel like they came off some type of allocation this year, which maybe was helpful, or they're selling it differently. It's been interesting to see it because I see it more frequently than I did in the past. it's just interesting to see that.

Jessie Ott (25:47)
No, no, no, you're fine.

Okay, yeah, I thought it was too. I didn't dig into it any more than that, but that's a good observation. ⁓ makes sense according to this chart, but there's only four brands that are positive in the top 30, and this is All Spirits. And then Year to Date. You got On the Rocks and Don Julio that for the full year are positive. So it's just kind of sad.

Caitlyn LuBell (26:29)
That's pretty

funny with all the press about that's been hitting Don Julio and stuff like that. It's interesting to see that they're not doing that. They're going up, not down. That's interesting. No, people are like, I don't care. I still like my Don Julio. Good for them.

Kate Jerkens (26:40)
Yeah.

Not affecting them, no.

Jessie Ott (26:48)
Hahaha

Kate Jerkens (26:50)
Exactly.

Jessie Ott (26:52)
So that's the data that I wanted to share. I hope you found it interesting and useful. ⁓ I love researching it and doing it. It's really fun for me.

Kate Jerkens (26:58)
Definitely.

Caitlyn LuBell (27:02)
I'd love to see the statistics. Yeah, I'd love to see the statistics at the end of the year overall, you know, just the full wine category, spirits category, beer category, functional bev category, non-alcoholic, you know, kind of each each kind of funnel. I'd love to see that and see. Yeah, they.

Jessie Ott (27:03)
Anyhow

Kate Jerkens (27:03)
love looking at it like.

Jessie Ott (27:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I didn't throw in THC beverages and that would have been interesting too. ⁓

But we know there's the rise of those, there's a rise of the non-elks. You know, we were talking earlier about Wigobi and Ozempic and the interactions of alcohol with that and how people are moderating their appetite for alcohol. So, you know, do you guys have a word that...

kind of summarizes or phrase that summarizes 2025.

It's kind of like...

Caitlyn LuBell (27:48)
I always

try and find the silver lining, I'm not, that's a hard one to come up with a positive word. think it was really a challenging year.

Kate Jerkens (27:52)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (27:57)
I think it's in beverage terms,

yeah, it's like it's shaken not stirred.

Caitlyn LuBell (28:03)
Yeah, that's a good one.

Kate Jerkens (28:03)
Cool.

Jessie Ott (28:05)
And

I'm hoping that this is the new foundation of what's to come. This is sort of the shock year, right, of...

Caitlyn LuBell (28:13)
Exactly.

Kate Jerkens (28:14)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (28:14)
how

these RTDs became such the big force to be reckoned with and the stories behind it and how they did it is pretty, it's very interesting. mean, even with you guys, Kate, growing your brand as fast as you did in five years, that goes back to what you guys did to build the brand. You had a story, you had a product, I mean, all the things came together for that brand.

Kate Jerkens (28:26)
It is.

Jessie Ott (28:40)
And that shows how important storytelling is to these brands and connecting with.

Kate Jerkens (28:41)
Right.

agree.

But that's what's interesting to me about the ready to drink is, and I don't mean disrespect, I feel like I don't know what their stories are. Now, I do know the buzz ball story, right? But I don't think the consumer does. But there's something that's delighting the consumer about buzz ball. I think it's the name is fun, the color is fun, the shape is fun. Me as someone in the industry, knowing that this was a teacher, a mom who literally had an idea.

it on it and now it's just getting the bag is it makes me so happy. Right. But it's so incredible because there's not it just shows like indifferent. I think when it comes to like whiskeys and I think tequila now because there's so much competition, your story and like your sense of place and sense of home are very, very important. I think the RTD is kind like whoever came up with it first got there first and has the most appealing package.

Jessie Ott (29:18)
you

Caitlyn LuBell (29:40)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (29:40)
seems

to be the one winning. And the Buzz Balls package is fun and it's pretty and there's fun flavors and you kind of can't help but like want to try it. So it's interesting as they're everywhere. Now as that category grows, what is your story? Like who are you? Why am I choosing you over the other? And so I've had the pleasure of getting to know two men who founded Mission Craft Cocktails. And if you haven't heard of them, they're very simple.

Jessie Ott (29:43)
Yeah.

Yep.

And they're everywhere.

Kate Jerkens (30:06)
They're a similar concept to On The Rock. So it's more premium. It's premium ready to serve versus ready to drink, right? They're in the bottle. So it's several servings. Now they're giving a portion of every bottle sale to local food banks, right? And so they've partnered with Total Wine and they're a total wine across the country. And they're doing something to create a story for themselves, sort of set themselves apart. And I think that will be important for the ready to drink, ready to serve.

Community as you move forward because it's starting to get crowded There's clearly an appetite for and you go back to whiskey ten years ago or whatever it was There's an appetite for whiskey. How do you break through? You've got to have something that's gonna say you part and these guys are gonna need that as time moves on and They've got to figure that piece out

Jessie Ott (30:50)
Yeah

Caitlyn LuBell (30:51)
I actually think it's super interesting. You you're bringing up such an interesting topic because they say that the millennials and the Gen Zs, they really relate to brands with stories when it comes to wine and spirits, right? They really want to understand the foundation and it's very important to them. Yet, I don't feel that a lot of these, some of the RTDs definitely have stories, but are,

Kate Jerkens (31:05)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (31:18)
Are they being really loud about it the way that wine and spirits? I don't necessarily feel that they are. And but yet that generation, those generations are gravitating towards these products. And I honestly think that it's, you know, there's been so many strikes against the booze industry this year. And we all know all the strikes, but I think, you know, now it's coming out that like, well, it's not Gen Z's dope.

Kate Jerkens (31:22)
No, and not for the early 20s.

Caitlyn LuBell (31:44)
want to drink. It's that the drinks are too damn expensive and they can't afford a $25 cocktail at the bar. maybe these RTDs and know, these pre-batch kind of cocktails are less expensive. And so they're pre-gaming with those before they go out or something like that. But it's actually really interesting. You would think that they would care about the stories. Why do they care so much about the stories for wine and spirits? yet,

Jessie Ott (31:51)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (32:04)
100 %

Caitlyn LuBell (32:12)
And again, a lot of these RTDs definitely have stories, but are they being really loud about them the way the wine and spirits do? I mean, we've...

Kate Jerkens (32:21)
I don't think they any of them have a memorable story, if I'm being honest. And I don't think, I personally like being somebody, I, you I interact with like older teenagers and we don't want to talk about them because they're not supposed to be drinking, but teenagers do have stuff going on. But the people that are in their twenties, like there's just a convenience factor when it comes to some of that. like you're not drinking high noon cause that's a true ready to drink, right? Cause it's now, they're not drinking that because they love the story.

Caitlyn LuBell (32:38)
I think it's a convenience factor.

Jessie Ott (32:41)
and cost.

Kate Jerkens (32:48)
High noon is just super smart. They did a ton of flavors. They do variety packs. make them a hundred. You can get the hundred calorie cans. And now you're feeling skinny while you drink. Like there's a million ways to like that they've appealed to everyone. But you're right about how expensive it is to drink liquor in a bar or restaurant. the other night before my son's Christmas, his Christmas concert at church.

Caitlyn LuBell (32:51)
Yep.

Jessie Ott (33:02)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (33:03)
So that's their story.

Kate Jerkens (33:12)
was next to a hotel where we have a placement. And so I went by myself to order an old fashioned and I'm just trying to pull up the receipt. won't do it. I believe my uncle near 1856 old fashioned was $32.

Jessie Ott (33:25)
Cheers!

Caitlyn LuBell (33:26)
And you have an expense account. you know, most, not everybody has that expense account for their alcohol, right? Like.

Kate Jerkens (33:29)
Right. So like, I was like, okay. And it wasn't,

it's, you know, depending on the, like that's, and it wasn't a huge old fashioned, not that, you know, but like, that's a lot of money. And like, for me personally, I'm like, how would people, people can't just do that. Well, recently I was with a team, our team in Chicago, we went to support an account and you know, we did everything, I signed the bill and then I'm looking at it as I get in the car and I was like,

Caitlyn LuBell (33:40)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (33:42)
That's a lot of money.

Kate Jerkens (33:56)
someone had a rye old-fashioned, one of our rye old-fashions, was $29 in Chicago. I'm like, that is, overall, that's the bigger challenge, I think, is that.

Caitlyn LuBell (34:05)
Yeah, they can't afford it.

Kate Jerkens (34:07)
people can't afford that. And if you're going to make a decision about going out to dinner, you're going to have to forego some of that. I'm a family of five. Like you can't go to dinner, like at a medium restaurant right now for under $200. I can't take my three kids to through McDonald's drive-through that's not $35 to $40 for the three of them, right? So if you have to make a decision, you're going to make the decision on a premium

Jessie Ott (34:09)
No.

Kate Jerkens (34:34)
cocktail that costs $29 to $32. It's mind boggling. And our prices haven't gone up. Our prices haven't gone up. Our price to distributors has been the same since 2017. But bars and restaurants and all of them, the only way they're making margin and they're making money right now is on liquor because food's gotten so expensive.

Caitlyn LuBell (34:38)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (34:39)
Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (34:54)
Well, all their cogs are going up. Exactly.

Everything is going up and up.

Kate Jerkens (34:57)
So it's like,

it's not just, it's no just, they're doing what they can to keep their businesses going, but then that's going to be unsustainable for a consumer. Unless to your point, you're throwing in, you know, a holiday event for your, or you're on an expense account or whatever it is, but man, that just doesn't seem sustainable. So yeah, if I'm 25, I'm going to go drink three high noons. Two, one, be responsible, but I'm going to do that before I go out because I can't, a cocktail, you know?

Caitlyn LuBell (35:11)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (35:14)
Mm-mm.

Caitlyn LuBell (35:22)
Yeah, I mean, listen,

Jessie Ott (35:22)
You

Caitlyn LuBell (35:24)
you know, we always pre-gamed, right? Like that's what you do in your 20s. You pre-game, you have a cocktail at home before you go out because it's so expensive. But now it's just, it's out of control expensive. I mean...

Kate Jerkens (35:28)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

But it was an expensive $7 Jack

and Coke or a $10 Long Island you couldn't buy. Now it's $30? Like, come on, like, stop, you know, what are we gonna do? Yeah.

Jessie Ott (35:41)
That's outrageous. I've

Caitlyn LuBell (35:42)
Yeah.

Well, and the restaurants have no the restaurants have no choice. So it's not even just Chicago. It's everywhere. mean, New York City, you know, cocktails been thirty dollars for a long time. Right. And I've always said, I don't know how people live here without an expense account and go out and eat and drink because I was so lucky that I was able to go out and support my brands that I was working for. But but, you know, costs are going up. Rent is going up.

Jessie Ott (35:43)
heard that about Chicago.

Kate Jerkens (35:48)
No, it's not their fault!

Caitlyn LuBell (36:09)
I actually just did not to change the subject, but I just did a big post on LinkedIn about salaries. Salaries are going down, and that means that people have less money to spend when they go out, but everything is more expensive. And so it's really misaligned.

Kate Jerkens (36:24)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (36:25)
Everything is more expensive.

Kate Jerkens (36:29)
Doesn't make, now

it's not making sense. Yeah, the math is not math-ing.

Caitlyn LuBell (36:32)
It's not math-ing and I get it if I was 22 years old and know, I wasn't, you know, didn't have an expense account, wasn't making crazy money. I would never spend $25 on a cocktail. I don't like to do it now. You know, and it's, I'm like, geez, you know, I mean, I guess that it better be good. And I love a really good cocktail, mixology type cocktail, know, a craft cocktail, whatever, whatever.

Jessie Ott (36:47)
No way.

Kate Jerkens (36:55)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (37:00)
But you know, sometimes three sips and it's done too, right? And now you just spend $25. Yeah, especially that first one. It's like that first Negroni, I looked out and it's gone and I'm like, Oh, that was $22. That went quick, you know, so I get it.

Kate Jerkens (37:05)
my old fashion didn't last very long. was trying to buy some time and was like, this didn't last as long as it should have for what it was.

Jessie Ott (37:07)
hahahaha

Ha ha ha!

Kate Jerkens (37:18)
on a Friday night, you're like, that goes fast.

Yeah, exactly.

Jessie Ott (37:24)
That's insane.

Kate Jerkens (37:25)
Exactly.

Caitlyn LuBell (37:26)
Yeah, and I'm a Gen X

Jessie Ott (37:26)
Well, what I've-

Caitlyn LuBell (37:28)
and ⁓ I'm looking at that so I can't imagine what the 20 year olds are looking at.

Kate Jerkens (37:32)
Exactly.

Jessie Ott (37:33)
I also think that we're going to see a lot of shakedown in that segment because not everybody's going to make it. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that got into the business that don't know what they're doing, that don't understand operations, don't know how to manage a distributor. They don't know how to manage their funds. They don't know how to get the, you know, the best for their buck and are just throwing money at it. And so I just can't see that being sustainable either.

And going back to those that are building it around a community, one state at a time, not going too far. Talkhouse, Encore Talkhouse, I don't know if you've heard about this one. They're just in the Northeast based on music venue in the Hamptons. And ⁓ they're only in four states, but they have the highest velocity of any RTD right now.

Kate Jerkens (38:16)
No.

Jessie Ott (38:21)
because that's their focus. And so when they go in, they figured out through analytics that if you get a billboard of like five or six cans, whatever it is, you'll sell three times more than having one or two or three. And so those types of analytics are so important to get the distributor on board because the last thing they want is another RTD, right?

Kate Jerkens (38:23)
Wow, good for them. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (38:45)
But when you have a story like that and you can prove that your methods work, those are the people that are gonna win.

Kate Jerkens (38:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's smart that billboard effect is very, very important and important. I will say I've got plenty of distributors who told me this year that they wouldn't be surviving without RTD. like, you know, but to your point now, the more and more that come, it's like, how do you prioritize? You know, how are they going to prioritize? And then how do you break through? like, again, what's your story? Who are you? Why are you better than the others? You know?

Caitlyn LuBell (38:52)
is a really important.

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (39:03)
Of course.

Well, and Kate, think somebody on LinkedIn posted a picture of a grocery store in California. And it was just wall of color. And I don't remember if it's NA, functional, RTD, didn't matter because I wouldn't be able to focus on any of it because I didn't understand it. I have no way to navigate it. I mean, it's a tough space to fight. You get to really fight.

Caitlyn LuBell (39:17)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (39:33)
Yeah.

Right?

Caitlyn LuBell (39:38)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (39:39)
for that shelf

Caitlyn LuBell (39:39)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (39:40)
space and it's gonna get harder and harder. But to your point, Kate, they're selling. We saw.

Kate Jerkens (39:40)
You really do.

Yeah, I got they are selling but it is tough. Like I'll say

I've had you know, I'm not any you know, curious here and there and I'll go in and look at stuff and then I kind of get overwhelmed. Like I don't know what you know, like I'm not really sure which one of these I want to try. You know, even when it comes to, you know, this summer we you know, we were up in the mountains and we were spending some time on a boat and I'm like, I'm not gonna I normally drink Uncle Neers or I drink wine. Neither one of those felt appropriate for

Caitlyn LuBell (39:54)
Yes, definitely.

Kate Jerkens (40:10)
noon on a Wednesday on a boat with my kids. So I'm trying to figure out like what seltzer do I want to try or ready to drink just and even that can be overwhelming. And I landed on high noon because high noon's talked about the most right now in our world. But otherwise, I would have loved to support someone else. I just don't know enough about it. know, and high noon sort of like, they're kind of what are they? They're the bell of the ball right now. They're the, because people talk about them the most.

Jessie Ott (40:35)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (40:35)
Yeah, I find the category definitely overwhelming and I love to see emerging brands skyrocket and succeed. ⁓ But it is, I agree, I went to a world market recently and they actually have like a booze section in the back. it was, I felt really old and there was, it was filled with alternate packaging,

just really unique blended flavored wines and like all these random items that like you don't find in a regular like wine and spirits liquor store, you know, and I found it really overwhelming. I was like, I would love to just grab a can or a small package of something, but I'm like, what if it's gross? Some of them are delicious and some of them are not. you know,

Kate Jerkens (41:10)
Right, right.

Yeah, you just don't

Jessie Ott (41:24)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (41:25)
know.

Caitlyn LuBell (41:25)
You don't know. you know, I don't know. You know, I'm not out in the market the way that I used to be when I was in sales. I don't know how often these RTDs are budgeting for tastings, store tastings and things like that. But I think that that that is something that could help them drive the brands if they actually are in the stores doing the tastings or spending the budgets to hire the tasting agencies to do these tastings, because I think

I don't know, I always kind of think, well, if I'm intimidated by something, there's other people that are as well, especially me being in the booze industry.

Kate Jerkens (41:57)
Right.

Yeah, I

Jessie Ott (42:01)
Yeah

Kate Jerkens (42:01)
don't know what to do. you know, how's anyone else supposed to choose?

Caitlyn LuBell (42:04)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (42:04)
I'll tell you an interesting story.

Kate Jerkens (42:04)
Brings you back to California where

you can't do a lot of tastings by the way, either anywhere. There's very few people with a tasting license. No, California is, it's, you, it's hysterical. So I think beer and wine, you can, like if you think about, just go with total wines, cause that's what's kind of known for tastings. Beer and wine, can. think there's only a couple total wines in the state that have a license to able to taste liquor, but you don't see.

Caitlyn LuBell (42:09)
you can't.

Jessie Ott (42:13)
That's important.

Kate Jerkens (42:30)
Generally speaking, like my local Whole Foods, which is a mile from my house, which has a huge liquor beer, wine, liquor section, you rarely ever I've seen one bottle signing there ever. It was Brothers Bond and I got to meet the guys and they're so cute and so nice. And then that was it. I've never and it's huge. There's space, there's huge opportunity and they just people just don't do it. The licenses don't exist as prevalent. They're not as prevalent as other places, which is interesting too.

Caitlyn LuBell (42:48)
wow.

I didn't even know that, but also I think that a lot of brands are cutting back on budgets in general because of all the reasons that alcohol is struggling. And I think one of the budgets are cutting back on is tasteings. I think it's really one of most important things to do. And I hated it after a long, busy week. The last thing I wanted to do is stand in the store for three hours on a Friday and I

Kate Jerkens (43:05)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (43:11)
Yeah

Kate Jerkens (43:11)
do you

get liquid to lips otherwise though? How do you get people to actually know?

Jessie Ott (43:14)
You don't.

Caitlyn LuBell (43:25)
wouldn't do weekends because I'm like, I came from the hospitality industry. I work weekends long enough. I'm like, sorry, I'll do Thursday and Friday. I'll send you agency on Saturday. But, but it was so key and I would push myself to do at least a tasting a month in one of my stores because you have to, especially when there's such a high level of competition out there. There's a trolley in brands. How are you, how are you getting, you know, the attention?

Kate Jerkens (43:31)
Me too. You can trauma bond on hospitality. Exactly. We're done.

Jessie Ott (43:35)
Hehehehehe

Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (43:50)
Thanks so much.

Caitlyn LuBell (43:54)
You have to do tastings. think it's a really important part. When we talk to emerging brands, we always tell them like, you know, their budgets are tight, but we're like, you got to save money for tastings because, or, you know, have your people do them themselves because it's just so important. I think I never see these RTDs.

Kate Jerkens (44:05)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (44:11)
Yeah, wasn't it Stella Rosa?

Erica said does 3000 demos a year. That's what it takes. ⁓ Yeah, one of my clients, Swabicito Tequila, they have a five year spirits direct agreement with Total Wine. So we're helping them sell in the UK and other other places. And because obviously Total is exclusive right now. But ⁓

Kate Jerkens (44:14)
Yeah.

3000.

Jessie Ott (44:33)
They are now the number one selling tequila in Total Wine and number of bottles. And they have a four foot section and it's beautiful. The bottles are beautiful. And it's because Total Wine got behind the brand. The whole system of people got behind a brand and they helped sell it. If somebody has a different tequila, try this, try this, try this, try this.

And so it's not just they do a ton of demos. don't know how many they do a year, but it's a lot. They're doing demos every week in as many total lines as they can. And that's what's really helping drive the sales. Not only are they getting the...

Kate Jerkens (45:06)
the hands, but the hand

selling makes a difference though, too, right, Jesse, right? Because those guys, my nephew just got a job at Total Wine. So I'm fascinated. He's just turned 21. And I'm like, all the things we think we know, I'm like, is that how you know it has that how it works? He's like, yeah, like, it's so fun to hear it from the other side. But the hand selling makes a difference. And for somebody who's 21 years old, he's very already been given so much knowledge in the few months that he started working there, they do a great job of

Jessie Ott (45:10)
Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (45:19)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (45:23)
Yeah.

They do.

Kate Jerkens (45:36)
educating their team.

Caitlyn LuBell (45:37)
You know, also too, it's not just about educating the customer in the store, but when you're in there, you're doing the tastings, or there's a brand showing presence in the store, the team at the store is gonna get behind the ground too, because they're like, okay, all right, well, I see Caitlin again. She's, okay, what is she selling again? She's here supporting us, we're gonna support her. so I think just having...

Jessie Ott (45:37)
Yeah, this-

Kate Jerkens (45:51)
that part.

for sure.

Caitlyn LuBell (46:02)
The tastings also helps the staff at the store. They just, you know, it's repetition, right? And they'll say, okay, oh, they just did a tasting every month. I keep hearing this one tequila brand. Somebody comes in, they ask for a tequila. They're gonna suggest it because it's front of mind. It's front of mind, right? And yeah, I think they're so important. And I think more people should be really investing in tastings because

Jessie Ott (46:19)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (46:19)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. That makes perfect. That's very smart. You're right.

Caitlyn LuBell (46:29)
of all the reasons we just said, right?

Kate Jerkens (46:31)
Yeah, you're very right. people, but the people educating of those of the people in the stores is and they're like getting to know them building relationships is a big deal. You're right.

Jessie Ott (46:31)
Yeah. And...

Caitlyn LuBell (46:39)
Definitely, of course.

mean, that's how I became friends with all my retailers was just, okay, I'm gonna come in, I'm gonna support you. I'm not just gonna drop five cases on you and walk away. I'm gonna come in and support you and do what I can to help. Yeah, help you sell it through, teach your team how to sell it through and you know, and they would come over and check and do a little mini staff training, you know, and teach them. then you leave and now they have that knowledge.

Kate Jerkens (46:51)
Right. Go sell this.

Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (47:08)
right? But the brands that just, you know, they let the distributor throw the product on the shelf and then that's it. I don't know how much dust is it gonna collect? To me, you know, yeah. Yeah. I think in this time you have to take the extra steps because there's so much severe competition and so you got to take the extra steps. It's like if you're gonna do it, you got to do it right.

Kate Jerkens (47:17)
Quite a bit.

Quite a bit.

Jessie Ott (47:30)
Yeah, so I feel like 2025, know, Julie used the word reset. And I think she was right. I think we kind of had to reset our mindsets around how our industry changed in that just one way in so many ways. Functional, non-alcoholic, all the things. And so I feel like next year we should be the fundamental building block should be settle and reset and like

Kate Jerkens (47:30)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (47:56)
Our new normal, right, is going to happen. Functionals here to stay. I see that getting bigger. I think people have to also think about no more sugar. There's people that don't want sugar. think when it comes to making cocktails, like real, real cocktails, what I've seen on my podcast, those bartenders and those people that are really trying to mimic the cocktail because that sugar is like a slight emulsifier are using real cane sugar.

Caitlyn LuBell (47:57)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (48:23)
to do it and real natural ingredients. I'm seeing real natural ingredients and I'm seeing a little bit of sugar in the cocktails, but the non-alcoholics I think have a problem with sugar and they're gonna have to fix that.

Kate Jerkens (48:34)
100%. You're not going to pay me to drink a non-alcoholic beverage with sugar in it because I'll just go back. I'll either just go back to water. I'll have a Coke Zero, sorry, or I'll just drink a glass of wine. But I'm not going to drink an NA beverage that's filled with sugar. don't... Calories aren't worth it to me.

Jessie Ott (48:44)
Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (48:52)
Exactly. Why bother?

Jessie Ott (48:53)
Yeah, yeah exactly and

and so they're gonna have to figure that out.

Kate Jerkens (48:56)
It's just why it is it's a why bother

there's too many other options that are not alcoholic to drink. ⁓

Caitlyn LuBell (49:02)
Or if I'm gonna have all that fresh

sugar, I'd rather have a fresh squeezed orange juice, if I'm gonna do, know, which is like, at least I'm getting vitamin C and things like that, you know, I'm getting like real, but. ⁓

Kate Jerkens (49:07)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but you're right. They've

got we've got to figure that out. We've got that that parts got to figure out. And I think people are getting close.

Jessie Ott (49:16)
Yeah.

And I know, Kate, you mentioned in the queue too.

Okay, good. Well, you know, they're always going to refine and listen to their customers. ⁓ You mentioned that a grocer was concerned about non-elks expiring because they didn't have the alcohol, which is a stabilizer in it. Are you still seeing that on shelf?

Kate Jerkens (49:22)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

They

were the only one that's ever said it to me. And when it was the ones that were like very juice heavy. I wouldn't say when I'm walking around like my local grocery stores, I see more, I see more canned beverages than anything. I don't see a lot of like juice heavy stuff right now. So I wouldn't, but I would say like, I get, go to Whole Foods mostly lately just because it's close and convenient and they're, they're not all.

section is very impressive. But it's mostly canned. So I feel like those things probably are preserved better than anything else and lots of options that that company and I'm gonna GHIA I think it is have you seen them? Wow, last night I walked by really impressed to see they have like a non alcoholic espresso martini now a non alcoholic like kind of apparel spritz thing and I was like, those look interesting. But those all look sustainable as well the way they're being

Caitlyn LuBell (50:13)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great brands.

Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (50:29)
So it'll be interesting to see and the particular grocer I was talking to maybe got talked into talk to buying stuff that just They never were specific about the brand But yeah, I mean the fact that they shrunk their section based on some of that stuff was very interesting I don't see Whole Foods doing it though. They seem to be growing it more than anything

Jessie Ott (50:44)
Yeah.

Well, they kind of have the name behind it, right, too, in that sense. You have to have the right ingredients to even be allowed in there. And that goes with consumer trust. And so maybe they're a little bit more selective on the brands that they pick.

Kate Jerkens (50:50)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

Very true.

Very true. I think the brands for me, we can go back, we talked about this before. But you know, if you walk into like a Kroger style, you're gonna see all of these CPG brands like a Sunny Delights, you know, a Mountain Dew, whatever at all, all those guys that now have booze. I don't know how sustainable all those are over time.

Caitlyn LuBell (51:25)
No, think there are already a lot are even pulling back.

Jessie Ott (51:25)
No, I don't think so.

Kate Jerkens (51:26)
because they're appealing to people our

age. They're appealing to people our age and a little younger than us maybe, but like, I don't foresee my daughter when she turns 21 going into her, I like I love a juice that I wasn't even allowed to drink as a kid because I had too much sugar in it, but now you have vodka in it. Like I'm just thinking out loud, like I just don't know how sustainable, the Minute Maids of the world, like I just don't know how sustainable those are. think they were interesting experiments, but I think that stuff we would see go away before anything else.

is those experiments.

Jessie Ott (51:56)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I think next year if our economy can hang on and Q1 and not recess too much, I'm concerned about the unemployment rate at 4.6, you said, Caitlin, because it was 4.4, 4.3 and then 4.1. And it's been between around 4%. But we've

Caitlyn LuBell (52:13)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (52:21)
We've gone up quite a bit now these last three months.

Caitlyn LuBell (52:24)
It just came out today, the Wall Street Journal. I lost.

Jessie Ott (52:27)
Yeah.

And this is the busiest time of the year. And it makes me wonder what is the disconnect between our younger generation and the jobs that are available?

Kate Jerkens (52:37)
Mmm.

Jessie Ott (52:38)
Why are we having problems when they're trying to find jobs? we not, are we not hiring them?

Caitlyn LuBell (52:38)
⁓

Well, ⁓ this is this is definitely my category. Hold on, I lost my

Kate Jerkens (52:43)
That's an interesting question.

Jessie Ott (52:43)
I don't know the answer to that.

Caitlyn LuBell (52:48)
Bear with me, sorry. completely lost it. I don't know what happened. ⁓

Kate Jerkens (52:50)
We're here, we can see you. If you stare straight ahead, we're with you.

Jessie Ott (52:52)
Nah, you're good.

Do you like my

naughty cup? My wife gets the nice one, I get the naughty one.

Kate Jerkens (52:58)
We do like, I love it.

Caitlyn LuBell (53:01)
Why can't I see? Where did it go? Sorry, Jesse.

Jessie Ott (53:05)
That's

okay, you don't need it.

Caitlyn LuBell (53:07)
⁓ it's hard to like, I'm ADD so it's hard to talk into the black. Yeah, job. What did you say, Jesse? Can you repeat it? Sorry.

Kate Jerkens (53:12)
It's there.

Jessie Ott (53:16)
I mean, that was all I wanted to say is that I'm concerned it is rising. And, I don't understand the disconnect between the jobs that are available and why kids are having a hard time getting jobs.

Caitlyn LuBell (53:28)
The challenge, the challenges that are there. I mean, I know the answer. There's not a lot of jobs. There's too many people looking for jobs and, you know, there's not enough jobs out there for all the people that need a job. And so there's huge amounts of competition. I may have said this before on a previous podcast, but you know, back in the day, we always talk to our clients about the fact that you don't

Jessie Ott (53:28)
You know, I don't know the answer.

Caitlyn LuBell (53:55)
want somebody who checks 10 out of your 10 boxes. Because what happens when that happens is they get bored in five minutes, they're asking for promotion, they're asking for a raise, right? Smart people like to learn and grow. It's just a human fact. And so we always told clients like, here's the 10 things you want, let's find you somebody with six to 10, six to seven out of those 10 boxes checked so that they have room.

and space to evolve and learn and grow. Because there are so many people out there looking for a job, hiring managers, companies are looking for the best of the best, right? They're like, well, there's a thousand people in this room, let me pick the best one. And so that means you now have to check 10 out of 10 boxes, 11 out of 10 boxes, 12 out of 10 boxes. You have to check all the boxes

and then some in order to win that job. So people are coming out of college maybe, and there's a lot of competition out there. There's people that have already done it. They have had the experience. And so why should I hire this person when I can hire this person? There's one role available.

Jessie Ott (55:08)
Were the

boomers not retiring fast enough?

Caitlyn LuBell (55:11)
The boomers are not, no it's not, yes, but also companies are downsizing. listen, it's a whole broken system right now because everything is going up and so, except for revenue and profit. Revenue and profit aren't really going up unless you're like the buzz balls of the world, right? And so what do you have to do? You have to pull back. And so,

Kate Jerkens (55:11)
They can't, I don't know, maybe, or don't want to.

Jessie Ott (55:16)
They're addicted.

Caitlyn LuBell (55:35)
What's happening right now is the salaries are getting pulled back. So lower salaries. you think, okay, maybe that's good for the newbies, but they don't check enough boxes. what the ⁓ company wants is the, you know, well-seasoned person at the newbie salary. And they're kind of holding out for it. Sometimes we can find something like in the middle, but you know,

they're holding out. want to see, they want the best, biggest bang for their buck, right? They want, they have $100,000 to spend. They want to get the absolute best candidate that they could possibly find that checks every single box.

Kate Jerkens (56:05)
interesting.

And

if they wait long enough, there's people without jobs that are waiting long enough that are also going to be like, finally, OK, I'll do it.

Caitlyn LuBell (56:22)
So this is the conversations that we have because I believe in paying people fair market value and their worth. We always like to see people's salaries go up, not go down. And so we're always trying to get people to get more money than they had at their last roll. And the response that I often get is, this is the budget, this is how much I'm allowed to spend or we have to spend and someone will do it. If they have zero income.

Jessie Ott (56:30)
Alright.

Kate Jerkens (56:33)
Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (56:51)
they will take that 100K even though it's not 125 because they have zero right now. And we got that a lot in California. We saw a lot of salaries kind of going the wrong direction. Well, there's so many people out here, so somebody's gonna take it. And it's definitely been a challenge because we have so many people in our database, right? Canada's people looking for jobs. This is what we do. And then we get these great jobs.

And to put those puzzle pieces together is a lot more challenging than it was in the past. And it's not just boost recruiting, it's across the board, we hear this from other recruiters and CPG and all the things, but it's a challenge. So, you know, there's too many people, it's a supply and demand. That's all, that's what we're stuck in right now. Hopefully companies will continue to grow and

and find other places for additional revenue streams and then they can afford to hire more people. you know, salaries are part of a budget, right? Sorry, that was a lot, but I've been not kind of on a, I've been on a high horse with it lately because I feel so bad. Like we don't like, you know, reaching out to people for a job that's 20K below what they really want. But we also know they really need a job. So.

Kate Jerkens (57:55)
No, it's all, it's good information.

Caitlyn LuBell (58:10)
Okay, you make that choice, but it still hurts my soul a little bit because I know they're not gonna give 120 % and they're gonna be right away looking for what else is out there. And so it's a challenge, but when there's not a lot else out there, they would rather have the lower salary and pay their mortgage and buy groceries, right? So yeah.

Kate Jerkens (58:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (58:35)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (58:35)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (58:35)
I hope

that's something that I hope evolves in in 2026 because I don't love it. I don't support slave labor. I like people to get paid, but they're worth and you know, it's hard. It's and you see people kind of like, okay, well, I need a job. This is below my value. I don't know what to do. And you know, I'm like, you have to have a little chat with yourself and decide what's the best path for you. You know,

Jessie Ott (58:43)
Right.

Kate Jerkens (58:46)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:03)
and then we're here to support it along the way.

Kate Jerkens (59:04)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jessie Ott (59:06)
Well, in closing here, for 2026, well,

Kate Jerkens (59:06)
Absolutely.

Jessie Ott (59:09)
for 2025, my word was level up it, experiments, experience, know, in a, Kate, you probably, don't know, you didn't talk about the experience you had around that $30 cocktail, but I bet if there was some more pomp and circumstance around it and it was an actual full drink and you 30 bucks would...

Kate Jerkens (59:26)
Yeah, I would have liked to take a banner to drop and some like smoke

to come out or something. I'm just kidding.

Jessie Ott (59:30)
Right? Exactly.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:32)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (59:32)
Like, charge those prices, but make it worth it. Right? And I think as we look at what happened in 2025, I think my word is hopeful, because I'm hopeful for the economy. I'm hopeful that this tariff business is going to slow down and get settled out. And we move forward. And, you know, the industry continues to grow in the new way that we're supposed to grow.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:35)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (59:35)
Yeah, yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (59:42)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (59:58)
It's supply and demand, right? The consumers are going to tell us what brands are going to make it.

Kate Jerkens (59:58)
I like that. Yeah, absolutely.

Jessie Ott (1:00:03)
But I think there's going to be a lot of pullback in the next year to two years.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:00:07)
Well, I'm going to put the positive juju out there. My word for 2026 is growth because I feel like we can only go up from here. I feel that we're in a real lull in the roller coaster here. I'm my word for 2025 was evolution. And I felt it a little more on a personal aspect than professional. But I definitely felt it. But I think growth

Kate Jerkens (1:00:18)
Fair.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:00:34)
Now we're kind of at rock bottom a little bit, so I think we can only go up from here. I'm optimistic that the industry is going to continue to grow in a positive way.

Kate Jerkens (1:00:44)
Yeah, think mine is change. But that's all it's personal and it's everything but change change. Something's got to something's got to change right and I believe it will. I think reset was a great word. I still think reset is applicable. I'm bringing in change into 2026 and looking forward to reflecting on the year in the next couple of weeks and bringing that change into 2026.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:00:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (1:01:08)
Mmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:09)
Yeah, me too. I love it. Let's do it, ladies. I can't wait. I'm very excited. We're starting off the year strong

Kate Jerkens (1:01:10)
Do it.

Jessie Ott (1:01:12)
Yeah, let's go 2026. Somebody's gotta get her business rolling.

Kate Jerkens (1:01:15)
Woo, we need ya.

Somebody!

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:23)
already. I think we're going to have three people starting right in the beginning of the year. And that's super exciting to start off January with new people getting new jobs and new happy clients. So yeah, we're really

Kate Jerkens (1:01:29)
Good.

Jessie Ott (1:01:29)
Great.

Kate Jerkens (1:01:35)
Good.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:38)
We're really excited and we hope to get as many people, humanly possible jobs in this industry as we can.

Kate Jerkens (1:01:45)
Love to hear it. Thank you for doing that. All right. Same to you. Thank you. Till 2026.

Jessie Ott (1:01:46)
Awesome. Well, Happy Holidays ladies.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:46)
Yeah, yeah. Happy Holidays.

Jessie Ott (1:01:52)
And I guess,

yeah, we'll regroup for Q1. Are you guys still up for doing this? Yeah, great. I think it's so fun. It's one of my favorite podcasts I get to do.

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:54)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (1:01:58)
We're game, game, absolutely. Cool. Me too, me too. If only everyone could

Caitlyn LuBell (1:01:58)
Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having

Kate Jerkens (1:02:07)
hear the

Caitlyn LuBell (1:02:07)
us. Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (1:02:07)
banter before the call. tea is. All right, bye y'all, thank you.

Jessie Ott (1:02:10)
Yeah, exactly. Bitching complain

about perimenopause. It feels great that other women are feeling the same thing.

Kate Jerkens (1:02:17)
Exactly, we're good at

Caitlyn LuBell (1:02:17)
So.