🔬 Reinventing Wine: Richard Schatzberger on Sobriety, Technology, and Flavor-First Innovation

Precision ethanol reduction, low-alcohol wine, tech-driven beverage innovation, and AI insights collide in this epic chat with Altr CEO Richard Schatzberger! 🍷💡🔥  ⁨@ThirstyThursdaysat3PMEST⁩ 

🍷 Can wine still be wine without the ethanol? That’s the question Richard Schatzberger, CEO & Founder of Altr, set out to answer — and the answer just might flip the $1.7T global alcohol industry on its head.

In this week’s episode of Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST, I sat down with Richard to explore:

🚀 His incredible journey from building Motorola’s first camera phone to co-founding Siri and Viv (acquired by Apple and Samsung)

🍇 His personal path to sobriety and the realization that alcohol-free doesn’t mean experience-free

🧪 How Altr’s membrane technology differs radically from traditional ethanol reduction like spinning cone and reverse osmosis

🧠 The human-centered, flavor-first mindset behind "The Velvet Blade" tech

🛠️ Why Altr's first customers are winemakers — and how the tech is designed to retain terroir, mouthfeel, and aroma

💡 How a dream (yes, literally) became a global beverage startup backed by Beam Suntory and FTW Ventures

💬 "We're not here to kill ethanol," Richard explains, "we’re here to give people choice. Whether you want 14%, 4%, or 0% — it should still taste like wine."

🎯 Key Takeaways:

Altr’s tech is already outperforming other low-alc products on taste with early testers preferring Altr-processed wines over originals

Consumer behavior is changing fast — “zebra striping” and sober social rituals are rising, but the quality gap remains

Tech isn’t the enemy of craft — It’s a tool to preserve it

🔗 Learn more or join their beta program at: altrfilter.com

🧠 If you’re a heritage-forward winemaker or innovative brand looking for the next chapter in premium beverage — this episode is for you.

👉 Follow me for more beverage innovation, brand spotlights, and industry disruption from farm to shelf.

#ThirstyThursdays #BeverageTech #WineInnovation #LowAlcohol #SoberCurious #MembraneTech #BeverageFounders #FutureOfWine

Mentors

Dag Kittlaus

Ken Grossman, the founder of Sierra Nevada.

Brian Frank,fantastic lead investor FTW Ventures

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!! Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Alter and Richard Schatzberger
• 3:21 The Evolution of Low and No Alcohol Beverages
• 6:07 Richard's Background and Early Career
• 11:12 Innovative Projects and Technology Development
• 16:38 Consumer Behavior and Alcohol Trends
• 22:16 The Birth of Altr and Its Mission
• 27:55 Building Relationships and Overcoming Challenges
• 33:14 Mentorship and the Future of Alter
• 47:25 Navigating Pre-Seed Funding and Product Development
• 49:57 Innovative Approaches to Wine Technology
• 52:37 Market Dynamics: Alcohol Levels and Consumer Preferences
• 56:15 The Velvet Blade Technology Explained
• 1:00:03 Building a Team: The Fusion of Winemaking and Technology
• 1:03:27 Consumer Experience: Shifting Perceptions in the Wine Industry
• 1:06:37 Future Aspirations: Expanding Beyond Wine
• 1:12:00 Mentorship and Learning from Unexpected Places
• 1:19:01 The Importance of Real-World Experience
• 1:21:37 Trust and Problem Solving in Startups
• 1:24:00 The Future of the Wine Industry: Challenges and Opportunities
• 1:36:48 Produced by Fedora J Productions
• 1:36:48 Tune in Next Thursday & Have a Great Week!

Transcript

Richard Schatzberger (00:00)
one thing I'll say is we would still love those forward thinking, people with heritage, or what we like to call our heritage forward brands, that have got that history, that have got that craft, that are looking for what's next.

and brands that are wanting to go create the next product and need a partner to go do that with. Our beta program is open right now and we're looking for people who want to come on this journey with us that are willing to kind of start where we are and get to a bigger brighter future together.

Jessie Ott (00:59)
Hello everyone and welcome to Thursday Thursdays. My name is Jessie Ott and I have Richard Schatzberger, CEO and founder of Altr, flavor first, precision ethanol reduction. He and his team were in Forbes magazine in the Food and Drink section posted this past July in 2025. Their team has also raised five million in the seed round to bring his tech to market.

Richard, welcome. I'm so pumped to have you.

Richard Schatzberger (01:29)
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much for taking the time and spending this hour with me.

Jessie Ott (01:35)
Yeah, of course. I am super into technology and I, you know, love what you're doing. I think, you know, in talking to different people that are out there in the marketplace, like Chris

Thirty Fifty he and his wife, don't know if you know them in the UK, but they, they do WSET wine tastings and, trainings. And, they, I've talked to him for two hours about, about wine in the world and the technology behind it. And I think he's really encouraged by what's happened in the last year to two years. Claire Warner, she's on the board of,

Tales of the Cocktail in Louisiana every summer. And she's encouraged by the results that have been happening with wine, but I don't think it's quite, it's not quite where beer is, I would say. And I think that there's a lot of more experiments that need to probably happen and technology. I don't even think spirits are where they should be either. I think there's a lot more experimentation with that.

so I think, you know, the, the fact that you're tackling a whole category is a lot. And, it sounds like you have some pretty good, partnerships with some, with some wineries that are going to help push, push the technology along.

Richard Schatzberger (02:49)
Yes, it's the space has evolved since we started. At the beginning, it was a dream and people asked me kind of, are you crazy? Why would you want to take the fun out of drinking? And nobody's ever to take the same price for less alcohol. And I think we're in a good space because we're riding, as you say, of riding the wave of

Jessie Ott (03:02)
Yeah

Richard Schatzberger (03:09)
low and no alcohol beer, but now doing it for those next categories, which are actually harder to do and a more complex problem to solve in wine and spirits.

Jessie Ott (03:21)
Yeah,

definitely. And I know there's different companies all over the world. I've had people on here. One, there's an Italian sparkling. There's another German manufacturer. I talked to a few years ago, somebody who was, I believe from Germany or the Netherlands, I think, that were going to California for the first time. we're talking the beginning stages of

you know, what you're trying to accomplish.

Richard Schatzberger (03:48)
Yeah, and I think that is we're only going to get better from this point on the markets only going to expand and that I think we're at the perfect time because usually trying to force a technology on somebody. I think where we are right now is there's just a massive desire for a change in behavior and the need for a technology.

There just isn't the experience ultimately to go along with it because the consumer's desire is there. They want to get into this space. They want to have products in this world, but then kind of the experience often drops off and they're not ready to come back for a second purchase. as we know in the retail world and wine world, that second purchase is what really drives revenue.

Jessie Ott (04:28)
Yeah. And from what I've seen the so far in market besides Fre, it's pretty expensive. I know like the Constellations of the worlds are able to offer some of the lower, lower alc versions of like Kim Crawford, for example. So it's out there, but you know, a lot of the smaller producers, it's clearly a cost for them.

extra cost for them to do it in order to, you know, get it out there in the consumer space.

Richard Schatzberger (04:54)
Yeah, think cost is definitely kind of one key component of this. And I think that's why you've seen the types of brands.

in the market right now. There's kind of this trade off between quality and kind of market share. So the big players can go and get that space and can invest in the existing technology that's been out there for a while. Like it's not a brand new market like there has been as you say free has been around for a long time. They went after a very kind of small use case and kind of niche market. And I think where we are right now is the wine industry is looking for what's next. And so those

Jessie Ott (05:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Richard Schatzberger (05:31)
smaller

and kind of more obsessive, I will say around quality producers. That's what they're looking for. And right now they're having to balance kind of, yes, the additional cost, but is the output aligned with their brand and kind of aligned with the quality expectations they have. And that's what we're really here to do is go after that kind of premium market, which I think is not served well. And so when you kind of raise the bar,

Jessie Ott (05:54)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (05:58)
The premium market can kind of grow in that space and then that enhances the kind of more mass market down below as well

Jessie Ott (06:07)
Yeah, for sure. And you know, it's interesting too, some of these companies that are growing fast, like toast that is out there that's made from, you know, tea and herbs and whatnot. And so you really kind of have that type of a competitive set, I would say, because it's still going for that experience, but it's not wine. It doesn't taste like wine, but it acts as the experience of wine. And it's, they're all very good products and everything like that.

Richard Schatzberger (06:28)
No.

Jessie Ott (06:35)
but you're, you know, you're definitely taking a complete product, right? Taking the alcohol out, putting it back in with all the flavors and the mouthfeel. And I can't wait to dig into that, but we do have some other things we've got to get to first. Like, where are you calling from? I'm so excited to dig in. I got to pull myself back.

Richard Schatzberger (06:55)
Let's start there. Today... No, no, that's what we're here for.

And I love talking about it. This is kind of my passion and calling in life, I feel like. So ⁓ I'm here for all the questions and to dig as deep as we can. So where am I calling in from today? Today I'm in Los Angeles. And next week I'll be in Milan. And after that I'll be in Chicago. My life is often on the road.

Jessie Ott (07:06)
Great.

You

Richard Schatzberger (07:20)
It's nice customer meetings and investor summits.

Jessie Ott (07:25)
So where are you originally from?

Richard Schatzberger (07:28)
So originally I grew up in a little tiny mining village in the middle of England near Nottingham. So grew up actually interestingly in that kind of agricultural and kind of industrial world. It was a tiny little 500 person village that kind of was in the countryside. Yeah, so it's a different world being in Los Angeles and Napa and kind of.

Jessie Ott (07:45)
I can identify. Yep.

Completely.

Yeah. I beat you though. I'm from a town of like almost a thousand. Sometimes it's 900, but it just, you know, it fluctuates. 24 people in my class, including foreign exchange students from the Philippines.

Richard Schatzberger (08:04)
Yep, that's what I grew up in as well. My school is a tiny little Victorian house and very, very like 12 people in the class. So very small.

Jessie Ott (08:13)
wow, that's

crazy. You know, my school doesn't exist anymore. It had to merge with the nearby town. Is yours still around?

Richard Schatzberger (08:20)
Yeah, was

it. No, they turned it into an apartment complex. So, yeah.

Jessie Ott (08:28)
that must've been kind of cool though.

Richard Schatzberger (08:31)
Yeah, it was a beautiful building. It was one of those kind quintessential British Victorian tall kind of houses that they turned into a school and then back into apartments.

Jessie Ott (08:41)
That's cool. Really, really neat. So what happens after you graduate?

Richard Schatzberger (08:46)
so graduating, I did a weird, I studied something weird that there aren't many people I think that, have my background. I did a degree in CD ROM design. so as the internet was, yes, because there wasn't one for the internet at that point. so that was kind of where I started with it was in, was in technology and that's kind of been.

Jessie Ott (08:57)
There's a degree for CD-ROM design?

Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (09:07)
my career of emerging technology. So I had a degree in CD-ROM design, and then went on to work in design agencies to start with in design consultancies, working on emerging technologies. So early in the internet and kind of rich internet world, interactive TV in the UK, which is a big thing in the UK, not a big thing in the US, but kind of drove that industry in a boutique design agency.

Jessie Ott (09:36)
Bye.

Richard Schatzberger (09:37)
at trends.

Look at consumer behaviors and kind of match technologies to the needs, even if there wasn't a product there in the market. And so that's really kind of where I started. it in that kind of, it was bizarrely. I'm, we're now putting together a deal with, with my old founder of that company who's now moved into the beverage industry. So I think we're going to the circles of life and kind of being around good people. All comes back nearly 30 years later.

Jessie Ott (09:50)
That sounds fun.

It's, I, yep.

Richard Schatzberger (10:08)
So.

Jessie Ott (10:09)
It does. It really does. I've seen it a lot on the podcast, but just in life too. And it is about people. And it's also about building the team of different skill sets and people that you trust.

Richard Schatzberger (10:16)
It is. It's about...

Yeah. And that's what we alter, alter as a whole. kind of my whole career has been around kind of bring together those disparate people, creating a shared language that you can kind of create something, even if you've got a different background, if you speak a different language, like marketers don't talk to engineers, but kind of being kind of get those conversations actually happening. So you can build wild and impossible things. And it's the people who make those things happen.

Jessie Ott (10:39)
Right.

What was one of the, you know, biggest or most impressive project that you worked on?

Richard Schatzberger (10:57)
after, a little later, a little later in my career, I worked at Motorola. so kind of, think kind of the most exciting, projects were there. I love to kind of take an emerging technology that's kind of usually a little geeky and it's kind of done in a, done in an engineering way and kind of trends, consumer behaviors, and see the pathways of where I see the future is going to go and, and connect those two things so that consumers have.

Jessie Ott (11:12)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (11:23)
great experiences. So I was lucky enough or old enough to work at Motorola when I got to work on the first cut Motorola color phone, camera phone, touch screen phone. So kind of the birth of the modern cell phone pre iPhone. And so that was an exciting time. That was where things were hard. Like people come along and build an app now.

We had to build the chipset and we had to build the and we had to build the phone and then build the app and the software on top. So it was kind of a full end-to-end infrastructure play. Probably the most exciting project I ever did there was...

Jessie Ott (11:43)
Right.

Bye.

Richard Schatzberger (11:57)
One of my heroes, Nicholas Negroponte, he used to run the MIT Media Lab. He was on the Motorola board. And I was in the office that day and my boss walked out of the board meeting with standing next to Nicholas Negroponte. And he wrote the book Being Digital, which was one of my books that has kind of defined my career, kind of predicted the future of technology. And he walked out and he'd just done one laptop per child, which was the super cheap laptop for a

emerging markets. He walked out of the board meeting and said, Hey, you should go build a $12 cell phone. And that was at the point where the cheapest cell phone in the world was $47.50. And he said, go build a $12 cell phone. And that was like one of those impossible moments.

Jessie Ott (12:40)
Right?

Richard Schatzberger (12:41)
And my boss was standing next to me he said, okay, Richard, here you go, go do that. So two days later, was booking travel to India to go understand the market and do that. But it was one of those interesting things. was like, I was in Chicago, talking to Chicago.

Jessie Ott (12:47)
Hahaha!

Wow.

Richard Schatzberger (12:58)
And I got in my car and I plugged it, put on my like old big Bluetooth headset and I got one of the old navigation systems and an iPod with the old squirrely wheel. And I suddenly realized, and my friend was next to me with an early prototype of a touchscreen phone and he was like typing notes as we were driving back into the city. And I suddenly realized I can't do this living this life.

Jessie Ott (13:08)
Yep.

Richard Schatzberger (13:21)
I don't understand what it's like to be a farmer and a villager in the middle of India and what their life's like and how can I design a cell phone for them? So basically I did two things. I got on planes and spent time in the regions and kind of spending time with those people. And I also built a team in Beijing, which is where one of Motorola's big offices were. And I built the team in Beijing because that made me illiterate. So my design team didn't speak English,

I didn't speak Mandarin and I was designing a phone for people who couldn't read or write, which was not a bad thing. I can't change the oil on my car. So I go to Jiffy Lube. They can't read or write. So they go to the person in the village who can read or write. wasn't kind of a negative thing. It was just kind of how people live.

So I built my team in Beijing so that I was illiterate. So I was living the life. So we had to kind of navigate communication internally to do that. And I had to spend time listening and kind of watching kind of behavior patterns, what was important. And I think in the end, we built a $14 cell phone. And I think over time we managed to discount it down to about $12. So that was an exciting moment, a very hard problem. It took about 18 months.

Jessie Ott (14:29)
That's impressive. How long did it take?

Okay.

Richard Schatzberger (14:35)
failed many, many times. We put something in of somebody and they just wouldn't understand how to use it. didn't like scroll, like, hey, everybody doesn't think about scrolling in the US, right? Hey, you press a down button and you scroll through an interface. They'd never seen anything digital before. They only knew the kind of...

fuel gauge on that tractor, there was nothing beyond what they could physically see. So there was just kind of completely new behaviors. So we failed miserably many times and eventually got to the point where we just kept going back and understanding consumer behaviors and kind of learning from them. And I think that was, that was an experience that put me in a good place for what we're doing here. ⁓

Jessie Ott (15:16)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (15:16)
kind of having to understand new spaces, new needs, new consumer behaviors, and how do we create technologies and products that are going to meet those things by watching and understanding, doing that ethnography to truly understand what those behaviors and desires are before somebody can articulate it. I don't think five years ago, people were sitting around saying, I'd really like a glass of half-strength wine.

But if you watch and you talk and you can really investigate and have that conversation of what people really want is they don't want the hangover. They do want more time with each other. They want to enjoy the evening. And so what are the products can fit into those contexts and build the technology that can allow those to come to life at a massive scale. And that's the other key thing is like, how do you build a technology business that isn't just one product? And I think that's what's a little different. And it's so exciting to see

the toasts and the French blooms and the other kind of low-no alcohol beverages come out, we don't see those competition in any way. We see those as customers because we're building the technology that they'll replace their current technology with because we're a better quality product in the output.

I think that kind of ability and kind of desire to watch human behavior and then connect technology to it is how we make great things in the world.

Jessie Ott (16:38)
That's really cool. Yeah, because obviously the consumers are your end. You're in consumer, right? You definitely want to get their engagement in the process. you know, it's obviously a trend. It's out there. Sober October just started. You you got dry January, but people are zebra striping and people are really changing their behaviors. I don't think, you know, it's ever going to go away.

because it's just too big of an industry and it's been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. But maybe our behaviors will change.

Richard Schatzberger (17:14)
Yeah, think

behavior's changed when you have choice, right? If you have to hack your way through the job. And it has to be good. You have to want a second one out. Our internal tagline for our company is "Have Another"

Jessie Ott (17:17)
Yeah, and it has to be good.

Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (17:25)
And that means would you have another? Do you enjoy what you're drinking that you would reach out and kind of reach for another one? And that to us is kind of the key defining point of quality. And I think kind of the other thing is like when we think about audiences, we don't just think about kind of the end consumer. That's obviously absolutely key because that's how you drive cultural change and how you...

kind of build a successful business when consumers want to buy it. But our actual customers are the CEO, the CFO, the head winemaker, the operations team at a winery. So we treat them with the same kind of obsession and kind of...

hold them in their opinions and their desires in the same way that we look at consumers as well. So we're balancing both of those things, making sure that we create a technology and a product that people want to integrate into their winery, that want to integrate into their process and making sure that we look at all of those constituents as we build our technology.

Jessie Ott (18:21)
Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. So, so did you get to the US by way of Motorola? Did you start, in the UK?

Richard Schatzberger (18:29)
I started in the UK, so I worked for that design agency called Deepend which was a super cool little culty design agency in Shoreditch when it was dangerous to be in that area in London. Cool and kind of gentrified now. I then went on to a consultancy called Sapient, which was a big design and technology consultancy that taught me a lot. And I think kind of.

Jessie Ott (18:41)
Hehehehe

Richard Schatzberger (18:55)
How do you dig into a problem you don't know something about? And how do you investigate? That was a really big education for me.

Jessie Ott (18:59)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (19:03)
there were projects that I was doing there that I didn't understand. So you really had to kind of learn that business that kind of growth project trajectory and kind of their products, even if it was nothing to do with anything that you had in your life, a lot of people kind of will go into businesses because they know it personally. I had to learn the skillset to kind of understand the business very, very quickly and get up to speed at the same level as the, as a client.

quickly. did everything from UPS's website, did nothing about shipping to the American Cancer Society's first major website and understand kind of cancer treatment and what people are looking for and from different perspectives. So that taught me taught me a huge amount in kind of empathy and kind of looking at kind of what people really need and how they interact with systems. So

Jessie Ott (19:41)
Interesting.

Yeah, that's very cool.

Richard Schatzberger (19:53)
Sapien was what really brought me to the US, then went on to do the Motorola, was there for quite a while and got to work on some wild advanced technologies, got to work on kind of working products. It's always fun to go back and watch those early 2000s movies and see the phones that I worked on. ⁓

Jessie Ott (20:11)
Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure.

I see you were there from 2002 to 2007 because I was in Europe in 99, 2000 and in the mid 90s, going back and forth to school, I had a big old phone car, a car phone that big, you know? And I remember being in grad school and these guys from Finland had these little Nokia phones.

Richard Schatzberger (20:27)
Yeah, confident.

Jessie Ott (20:37)
And they had their first text message and I was like, wait, what? And at the time it's like, don't do it. It's 25 cents a text. know, because you, yeah, cause Europe was so much more advanced at the time than we were obviously because of Nokia for, for sure. you know, as a, large cell phone manufacturer in the, in the, in the Europe, but, so you were in a, like a perfect time.

Richard Schatzberger (20:45)
Now we're going to look at another.

Jessie Ott (21:03)
at Motorola, like that was really growing all, like you said, all over the world. $12 cell phone. That's crazy.

Richard Schatzberger (21:07)
Yeah. And I was

also making $2,000 cell phones. made the phone with the first round screen. So it was like weird and wonderful things along the way. that was kind of, again, that was kind of category creation. And that's what I love to do. And I think that's what we're doing here. How do you create products?

Jessie Ott (21:17)
Cool.

That's so fun.

Richard Schatzberger (21:31)
that are good enough quality that make people want to kind of integrate them fully into their lives. And now we're doing with wine. So yeah, worked for Motorola for a while along the way. I started working with a gentleman called Dag Kitlaus. We worked on a whole bunch of projects together, advanced technologies. He left Motorola and...

As a consultant, I went to help him out with his little project, was codenamed Hal at the beginning. That turned into Siri before Apple Siri. So kind of the birth of modern AI from a consumer perspective. So that was fun. That was like, what is the future going to look like when you talk and interact with your phone as an AI?

Jessie Ott (22:03)
Wow.

That is so cool!

Wow.

Richard Schatzberger (22:17)
Again, of category creation through product, setting that strategy, setting that vision, and then kind of obviously they went off separately and built it and sold it to Apple. So the birth of that then went on to a little later in my career, of Wayne's World transition between there, a little later in my career, I got back with that team that created Siri.

There was a startup, they started a company called Viv, which was an AI that could write its own code like 13 years ago. So that was really the birth of kind of what we're seeing now with the AI revolution that you're seeing with Chat GPT and things like that, but kind of.

Jessie Ott (22:43)
Wow.

Richard Schatzberger (22:51)
Vivo was one of the early ones that got sold to Samsung and is now big beyond half a billion devices. So it's nice. Scale is what I love to do, creating those kind of underlying technologies that kind of scale massively and have a massive impact on people's lives. So I've always been in this space of relationships and kind of help what I thought and whether I was right or wrong in my thinking in the outset, but my goal was always to kind of connect people in deeper ways.

Jessie Ott (23:04)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (23:18)
⁓ cell phones was very much about that. The AI innovation that we originally had for Siri was very, and Viv was very much about how do you kind of

Jessie Ott (23:18)
Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Richard Schatzberger (23:29)
have a certain kind of symbiotic relationship with technology and kind of how AI can fit into your life and rather than you fitting into a technology's life. And the goal there was to again, to kind of bring people together and whether AI will bring people together or pull people apart is probably, I have my very own, very strong opinions of that. But that was an interesting transition into this, into this world of beverages and we haven't got to it yet, but

Jessie Ott (23:51)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (23:58)
Eight years ago, I got sober.

And that kind of disconnected me from a lot of culture, from a lot of society. so the wine industry, my ambition to kind of bring choice and lower alcohol options into the world was to allow full connection for longer, right? Most of the reason that most people will drink wine or get together is not for the alcohol, it's for the conversation, it's for the camaraderie, it's for the fun that you have together, it's the deep conversations you get around the table.

so excited to be in this industry, even though it was never where I thought my trajectory of technology would take me. But I think that human connection part is what's always been the thread of what I've loved doing. And so the wine industry and that talisman and that kind of...

ritual that brings people together. And especially in wine, it's a shared experience. think that is aligned with that and kind of doing that same thing, looking at consumer behaviors, looking at kind of how you build businesses and kind of things that are going to be successful in scale to connect people. And so it's a fun transition. I didn't expect to get sober and get into the wine industry. That was never my goal, but there I am and it's a fabulous place to be.

Jessie Ott (24:50)
It is.

Do you think if you hadn't gotten sober that you would still be interested in this technology or you would have created this company? You think that's like part of the journey?

Richard Schatzberger (25:20)
No,

it's part of the journey for sure. And I think it was a very personal experience that kind of opened my eyes to watch other people and realize how much of an unspoken desire there was for a shift in relationship with alcohol.

It's always been interesting being the sober person at an event or a party or a gathering. There's always somebody that whispers to me like, hey, like how did you do it? Or, hey, what's it like? Or how did you deal with this? And it was shocking how many people didn't talk about alcohol when I got sober eight years ago. The first question that everybody asked me was, what's wrong with you?

Jessie Ott (25:43)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (26:02)
And that was like, not the question I ever expected. was like, hold on a minute. just, I think what I thought was good for my life and kind of the people in society around me. And the question is what's wrong with you? And people didn't talk about alcohol. come from like the starting point of this conversation was where did you grow up? England like is.

Jessie Ott (26:06)
Right.

Right.

Richard Schatzberger (26:23)
has been historically alcohol fueled. it's you, you couldn't even notice who had a drinking problem because you weren't allowed to talk about it. You didn't want to be different and everybody kept up with each other and there was just this kind of societal movement that you don't question because you'll be left out. And that was definitely the experience I had when I made that leap. I'm so happy with where we are now in society and it's all

Jessie Ott (26:48)
100%.

Richard Schatzberger (26:49)
can talk about it. I think whether the products right now are good, bad, fantastic, terrible, I don't think that matters at this point in the birth of this new space. What matters is people have got the freedom to talk about it ⁓ without judgment. And I think that will change. And that shift is what makes me most excited and most happy about where I'm sitting in this space.

Jessie Ott (27:02)
Yeah. Without judgment.

Yeah, I would agree with you on that because women have gone through this trying to get pregnant and I had Mocktail Beverages on and they started it because his wife was a lawyer and was trying to be partner and she didn't want to not participate in having a cocktail with the partners and all the social things that come along with some of those

pressures, or jobs, or careers, or norms back then. I'm so glad we've broken through that and it doesn't matter anymore. You're there to enjoy the moment. Like you said, it doesn't matter what you're drinking.

Richard Schatzberger (27:55)
Yep, exactly.

It's kind of weird that we've made alcohol or ethanol, this kind of lauded premium molecule. like, it's a $40 bottle of whiskey because it's got alcohol in it, yet we get Purell and wash our hands with the same molecule. And so it's like, where does the value come from? It's about the experience you're having, not the molecule. And I think that's the shift that kind of we're here. And I talk about it when I present Altr.

Jessie Ott (28:13)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (28:25)
it's.

we've kind of gone off after the wrong thing. So kind of my premise here is to remove two things from the world. One is the stigma around drinking less. And that does not mean drinking nothing. As you pointed out, alcohol has been part of society for such a long time. I think we've got a pretty big ego. If we think we can just suddenly kind of stop something that has been around and kind of driven culture for thousands of years. So we're here to kind of create choice across the drinking

spectrum, whether that be a little bit less, a whole bunch less or nothing. We want to do it all and kind of build an industry that does that. And then to do that, to remove that stigma, the way that we're doing that is to remove the ethanol molecule.

to whatever levels that somebody wants to do and that kind of building that kind of spectrum of choice for a beverage provider or beverage creator that then can kind of pass that on to consumers based on what their brand, what their market ambitions are.

Jessie Ott (29:23)
Yeah. So when did the first aha moment come to you to create Altr?

Richard Schatzberger (29:29)
This one's a weird one. I was traveling, as I said I often do. I was sat alone at a bar and I was drinking a tonic water in a glass with a lemon in the top. So that was kind of my drink of choice. It was easy to order when I was in a foreign country and I could just sit there and keep that ritual, right? Keep that kind of after work kind of calming experience.

And I have to have to say a few things in my world of going and getting investment. Like I start with I'm sober, so I'm an alcoholic. I am asking for money, which doesn't usually go together in a positive way. And I have to say I had a dream and I literally had a dream. That was where this all started. ⁓ Very strange. It was kind of like that.

Jessie Ott (30:12)
That's cool.

It was in your

subconscious.

Richard Schatzberger (30:16)
Yep, it was.

I was kind of obsessed with the problem. I didn't know what would, how I would solve this problem. So I started out with a, with kind of a thesis of removing the stigma. I didn't know what my other piece of how to do it was going to be. So this kind of bizarre moment in my life, I got a download.

Jessie Ott (30:20)
Yeah.

Cause

this is your first company you created, right? Cause it sounds like you kind of worked for different companies and got all these really cool experiences, but none that you started yourself. Is that?

Richard Schatzberger (30:40)
I've created.

So I started

a couple of other things along the way. I missed a little period in my career. So this is my first fully owned technology company. I've been around, as I said, kind of a lot of startups throughout my career. In the middle between Motorola and Viv was...

Jessie Ott (30:53)
Okay.

Richard Schatzberger (31:11)
I spent my career making and inventing new products and then giving them to an engineering and manufacturing group. And then suddenly right at the end, an ad agency would come along and try and sell that product. And nine times out of 10, they would sell a different product to a different consumer for a different use case than what I'd actually invented it for. So I saw the advertising world as caught in the dark side.

And so I decided what's the best way to go fix that and that's to go join them. So I actually went into advertising for a while in the middle. went to Bartleburg and Hegeti and was there really to bring together those kind of what's happening inside of a company and innovation and the marketing teams and be that kind of bridge between those worlds. So I worked for Bartleburg and Hegeti in New York.

which really again kind of opened my mind to like all of the different pieces that it takes to get a product to market. And I think that's also again kind of compassion, empathy and insight into what it takes to launch something was really, really valuable. There I worked on everything from Johnny Walker Blue to Miller to Vitamin Water 10 to Sprite to Axe to Cadillac, launched Google Chrome.

Jessie Ott (32:16)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (32:30)
and kind of some skunk work projects as well that we did internally. So that really kind of showed me kind of what it takes to put a product into market. And then I started an agency with three other partners called Co-Collective in New York. What we did there was really kind of try to create a new platform for business.

I'd had this experience and my co-founders had had this experience. They were in came from the ad world or kind of the very early stage strategic insight world. And I came kind of further closer to that. So we'd got both sides of the worlds there. We want to create basically a new operating system for business. And we did that around the power of story. usually story comes at the end of a process.

What we did was move story to the beginning of a process. So how it's invented, how it's created, how it's kind of managed, how it's advertised, how it's deployed is a single story throughout that world. So we were working with both startups and large organizations. So Microsoft, Google, AIG, we created News Corp's education division, Amplify. We relaunched USA Today and we started a few startups.

Jessie Ott (33:41)
Wow,

Richard Schatzberger (33:42)
drone as well, we'd up in spaces. So it was fun, it was really fun.

Jessie Ott (33:43)
that's amazing. Those aren't small companies.

Richard Schatzberger (33:48)
No.

So it's like, and I think that's, that's, that's what I love about the alcohol industry or kind of the beverage industry, what we should probably call it, not the alcohol industry. Cause that's again, not the point is there's both of those players existing in the same space. So there are your large corporate entities, the constellations, the de-agios of the world, but then there's your small little winery.

there's breweries, there's distilleries that are looking to grow. So that ecosystem is very similar to the tech world. There's the giants and then the kind of hopefully to be giants that are starting from a place of true passion. And I think it's a very mirrored experience between the tech world and the wine industry. People are going in there with a passion to do something that they believe in and it's the art and the craft, but aligned with massive industry.

Jessie Ott (34:40)
Yeah. Wow. No, that's really, that's so cool. So does that agency, is it still around?

Richard Schatzberger (34:46)
It's still around. I left to go do my next era of AI because I knew AI was coming and kind of where I kind of jumped out at that point. But they're still going in New York and still helping companies grow really around kind of both story-driven innovation and also purpose-driven businesses and kind of B Corps and kind of making sure that you can do good in the world as well as do well in the

Jessie Ott (34:54)
coming.

that's awesome. We need more of that.

Richard Schatzberger (35:15)
Yep, was a special time. It was really good.

Jessie Ott (35:19)
So what kind of AI did you jump into then at that point?

Richard Schatzberger (35:22)
That was back into Viv with the AI that could write its own code. Very bizarre experience where I do things like come into the office in the morning and there'd be a bug report that I got to kind of work out how to fix what was going on. And I remember one morning I got into the office first, saw this bug that I got to fix in the design system and couldn't replicate it. everyone...

Jessie Ott (35:25)
Okay.

Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (35:46)
Everybody walked into the office and it was only like nine people working at the company at that time. Everyone who walked in, I'm like, did you fix this yesterday? I'm like, no, did you fix this yesterday? No. And then the chief scientist walk in and I'm like, did you fix it yesterday? And he's like, no, did. It realized that people didn't want to use it, so it stopped doing it.

And that was like my first moment of like the power of AI. And that story now exists like every day in everybody's lives with JetGPT and Claude. But that was like my first moment of like, there's something new here. My partner is the technology I'm creating. And that was an interesting moment.

Jessie Ott (36:24)
Wow. That is, that's really cool.

Richard Schatzberger (36:27)
I think that's the other crossover again between that kind of technology and wine. It is the unseen. It's the black box.

Why we started with with red wine, that's one of our kind of differentiating factors of our technology at Altr is that we're really good at red wine, which is the hardest thing to do. My team loves me for this because I gave them the challenge of red wine and then I gave them the challenge of cabs, which is the hardest one to do. So I always start with a hard problem and try and make it easier. And my team is rallied and kind of believed in me and doing that now and it's paying off.

Jessie Ott (37:00)
You

Richard Schatzberger (37:03)
But there's bit of a black box in how sensory and flavor profiles and mouth feel like the complexity of a red wine is kind of the same as the complexity of an AI. can't pull one thing out and say, this is exactly what changed it. It's the combination, it's the structure, it's the system that exists in the compounds within the wine.

that makes it special. Like you remove one thing, it doesn't always give you the answer that you expect.

because it's all about balance and kind of sit and system thinking. So I think that world of AI and the world of wine and the complexity of it, and kind of just the human experience of it on the other side is, is complex. Like we've been talking, through this process that people at Davis and things like that, like when I started this, it's like, Hey, can I just have a list of all the compounds and what they do? And we'll just be able to work it out. Right. And the reality is there is no magical list. says, if you.

Jessie Ott (37:56)
Hahaha!

Richard Schatzberger (37:59)
tweet this by this percent, you instantly get this result. It's all about balance and it's that kind of mixture of art, science and nature that kind of makes it special. So again, kind of that willingness to just let go a little bit and go, I'm not going to solve every problem and I can't put every problem in a spreadsheet. Sometimes we have to trust our gut and sometimes we have to listen to kind of different, different viewpoints. And usually that's human beings. And so

It's nature and humans, it's the winemaker and the grapes.

Jessie Ott (38:30)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. let's go back to, well, is there any other cool work experience that you haven't talked about? Cause I'm amazed by your experience.

Richard Schatzberger (38:41)
I probably I've done a couple of other little startups, but there was a fun weird little things. Life insurance, I built a little life insurance company that again, I'd never expect to do a digital life insurance called Ladder Life ⁓ on the side. So that was fun.

Jessie Ott (38:43)
Okay.

That's...

That's pretty cool. So your projects aren't really small that you get involved in.

Richard Schatzberger (39:05)
I

like hard problems. I wish I could pick an easy problem. Sometimes I'm like, how do people just pick a simple problem and just kind of go make money quickly and kind of simply while they sleep? There's just a desire in me to solve the hard problem and that. And know that it doesn't matter what the problem is. It just need is true passion.

Jessie Ott (39:10)
Heheheheh!

Right.

Richard Schatzberger (39:33)
and a team of people with varied backgrounds that can make that true and nurture and kind of encourage and inspire and give them the fuel and the fire and the resources that they need to get their job done. that's like fundraising for me is about how do I give my team the fuel?

Jessie Ott (39:39)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (39:52)
to bring out the best in them. It's not about how many dollars did we raise. It's like, has my head scientist, does he have the resources and the data that he needs to be able to do his job? Does my sales and marketing team have the resources to go out and spend time with the customers to learn and understand that business does? that's how kind of how think about things.

Jessie Ott (40:14)
Yeah. Yeah,

that's really cool. So you're in a bar, you've got your tonic and lemon and you had a dream. So where do we pick up from there?

Richard Schatzberger (40:22)
Yep.

So

as my personality, I think you probably guessed, I'm slightly obsessive. I became

Jessie Ott (40:30)
Hehehe

Richard Schatzberger (40:32)
I didn't tell anybody. I kept it in my head for, for a little bit. spent my time basically just reading every white paper, every patent I could get my hands on, seeing if I was a crazy, had a gut feeling. spent the next three months, literally just kind of every free moment I got reading a white paper, copying and pasting the email address at the top of like hunting through the university website, finding that person.

saying, hey, I've got an idea. Do you think this might work? Most people ignored me. I was just some random weird person emailing them. Eventually one person wrote me back and he wrote me back and nicely he said, you might not be crazy. Which I think was either the best email I ever got or the worst email I ever got. like, bro, why would he be crazy or not? It might not be great. You might not be crazy. We don't think what he actually said.

Jessie Ott (41:13)
You might not!

Richard Schatzberger (41:24)
So this gentleman turned out to be Lideric Bouquet, who's the director of research and focus on nanomaterials at PSL University in Paris. So Marie Curie's old university, top research institutes. And we got on the Zoom and really said,

Jessie Ott (41:36)
Cool.

Richard Schatzberger (41:41)
Okay, could this be possible? He created a technology that was not in the same space. It basically had a very similar idea to me, but it was exactly the opposite idea that I'd had. And so we said, Hey, you're doing the opposite. Like, what if we twisted this upside down? And again, this is kind of how I like to do things. Look outside. Like if I just said, Hey, what are the de-alkalization technologies out there? I wouldn't have got to this answer. was that willingness to kind of go further in different

different

spaces that I think kind of helped here. So we spent, we did a couple of experiments. We bootstrapped for the beginning. We got on a plane, went to Paris to do a little tasting to see if it was real. And we got back and COVID hit. So that was kind of, the idea came a little while ago.

COVID obviously shut down all the universities, all the research, all that. So it was about two years of just kind of putting it on hold, just like, yeah, we still believe in it, but it'll start to happen. And then eventually we got back to academic research. We got really good. got, actually we got fantastic. We got pretty close to perfect ethanol separation.

Jessie Ott (42:31)
Yep.

Richard Schatzberger (42:56)
which was fantastic, but we got really bad throughput. So we got perfect selectivity, terrible throughput, which would never kind of scale up to an industrial level. So that was one of those moments in this journey. And there's been lots of these moments where we had to make a decision. Do we keep going or do we stop? Because we've hit a massive roadblock. So instead of stopping,

we went and started hiring. And we managed to hire my wife's a recruiter. She managed to find us the ex chief innovation officer of PAL membranes in China, Dr. Bo Pan, who'd worked in the US and built kind of manufacturing facilities for membranes had gone from benchtop to commercial for every different type of membrane. we hired Bo and brought him into the team.

to come and look at this underlying technology that we created and say, what is the key points and how do we scale this? And so that was kind of the next era of this technology of looking at the fundamental science and then saying, what are the pieces that we need to do to scale that up? So again, it was like solving a problem with a relationship with a human being and building that passion and desire to solve a hard problem. So that was kind of the next step, working with...

super small quantities, like 50 mil, like tiny little membranes. My garage and laundry room turned into a science lab. So it was like my house, again, as an alcoholic, my house was full of vodka and wine and ethanol, which was again, a bizarre little thing to go through. And we got some good places. We had a dream.

Jessie Ott (44:33)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (44:35)
And we started to bring in angel investors at that point. Do you want to join this, this journey with us? And we got very, very lucky. some wonderful little serendipitous things happened. It was like, actually my, first scientists that we bought on as like, as a consultant in the U S I was, I'd moved, we'd moved to Arizona. and this just goes to relationships and kind of having the right people around you. My wife, one day went to a Starbucks drive through cause the Starbucks was still closed.

Um, and the barista at the window, um, had seen my wife come through a couple of days, a couple of times. And one day she was like, Hey, can I ask you what, what do you do for a living? And my wife's like, I'm a recruiter. Um, and this is like such a story. Emotional. That's bizarre. Um, and it was Katie and she said, Oh, you're a recruiter. I'm looking for a new job.

Jessie Ott (45:23)
That's awesome.

Richard Schatzberger (45:32)
Um, which was a bizarre thing to do over a microphone in his star. But well, cool. What do you do? She's like, well, it's a little bit weird. I'm a scientist. Um, so, and then a bizarre field and Morris was like, okay, what's your bizarre what field that you're in? She's like, well, I'm a scientist and chemist in, um, brewing.

Jessie Ott (45:36)
Right.

Richard Schatzberger (45:54)
I'm always like, hold on a minute. My, my husband needs a scientist in, the alcohol industry. And that was the beginning of it. She worked, she used to work for Sierra Nevada. ⁓ she came in, she introduced us to Ken Grossman, the founder of Sierra Nevada. and that was one of our first angel investors, which would be amazing. Yeah. Ken's been a big, exactly who would have expected. And I think that's a testament.

Jessie Ott (46:06)
Wow.

that's cool. Wow, what an interesting story. Starbucks drive-thru.

Richard Schatzberger (46:22)
like just being kind of not at all. Like, and that was like, we're really kind of how we made that next step before we got we got Bo involved. And then Ken, I know kind of part of the podcast is talking about your mentors, like kind of Ken's approach to the world is just fantastic how he cares about everything. And it's not just the bottom line, it really is kind of how you look at it can.

Jessie Ott (46:23)
It wouldn't have happened without COVID, probably.

Richard Schatzberger (46:50)
during the investment process was like, I'm not investing in anything that uses a lot of water or uses a lot of energy. And that's been, that was kind of how we made the real kind of commitment to this technology has to be low energy, has to be low water use. And that's one of the key differentiating factors. so kind of that mentorship is how he built his business from his garage and

Jessie Ott (46:56)
That's right, I love that.

Richard Schatzberger (47:13)
went out and bought secondhand parts and bought people together and now has got an empire that's like a fantastic business. He was very much kind of an inspirational figure as I went into this like passion drives business.

Jessie Ott (47:25)
Nice.

Yeah. No, a hundred percent. That's good mentor.

Richard Schatzberger (47:30)
Yes, he's been very, very insightful as we've been through this process. So yeah, so then it was angels and it was like, can we keep the money going? Can we keep the business going? Can we pay some salaries and some consultancies and buy some equipment? That was great. But we're still playing with ethanol water samples. We weren't really playing with beverages that you could really drink. And so the next era was getting into our pre-seed funding.

And again, kind of, we got samples of ethanol that you couldn't drink and we had a fantastic lead investor FTW and they said, hey, we love what you're doing, but of course we're not going to invest in a pre-seed official round until I can taste it. And by the way, Brian Frank, who's the head of that fund said, and by the way, I'm...

I got a Sommelier certification and I really love wine. So our first tasting of a natural wine was with Brian. And it was, he pushed us to get to wine and get to product. And I think that was the other thing that's kind of, some technology companies can stay in that academic world. It was getting to product, getting to product and kind of forcing deadlines that was very good for us.

Jessie Ott (48:38)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (48:41)
and so we did the first tasting and that was the, the start of our seed round led by FTW and Blue Stein. and they've been just fantastic partners, from an early stage technology perspective in the Ag Tech world. So yeah, that was, that was where we got to there. And then it was start scaling up building machines, finding kind of interesting engineering firms to, to kind of partner with us to build our first.

prototypes of a kind of real technology. So the lab's still in Phoenix. We have two machines running in the lab, lab scale. And then over the, as you mentioned at the beginning, our seed funding takes us to our pilot system. So our pilot system is gonna be installed in NAPRA towards the end of this year. That's gonna go through from five gallons to 800 gallons as our pilot phase.

Jessie Ott (49:31)
Wow, that's great.

Richard Schatzberger (49:31)
we're doing this

and we're doing this. decided to take a different approach to building a technology. A lot of people will kind of go, Hey, I'm going to go into a dark room and I'm going to build a technology. And then I'm going to come out and go, do you want to buy my technology or look how wonderful my technology is? we decided to do this with the wine industry for the wine industry. so we'll bring you, we're basically taking a little bit of that kind of tech world and doing our beta program, which is kind of.

research and development and product development with some of the best winemakers in the world as we go through this beta phase before we get to commercialization, which will be coming mid next year. But we'll be running real wines, real products with our beta system with winemakers who see that same future as us so that we can prove out the quality and kind of deep into the market with this premium.

not necessarily premium price, but premium quality wine.

Jessie Ott (50:25)
Nice. That's really cool. I love the beta test. I love the approach that you're taking with the wineries because it's probably, I don't know if it's more expensive or not, but I think in the long run, it's the right way to go because you're going to get the technology right and they're going to be part of the process.

Richard Schatzberger (50:44)
Yeah. And for us, to me, there's kind of two ways to look at what costs you more. And there's lost opportunity cost, and then there's kind of bottom line cost, right? So.

We are an additional process. were not saying we're not. We are charging money for this process. Premium. We won't be for every winery. Like there will be products that they're like, I need a different kind of scale and a different kind of price point. And that's okay. There are players in the market. That's good. We're like, if there weren't other players in the market, I don't think it would be a market, right? I've spent my career being first with technology. It's actually a good place to be this

time to be kind of second and better because the market and the design, the interest is already there. So it's a different, slightly different place for me to play. And I'm excited to be in that, in that space. But for me, it's not about necessarily the cost. It's about, you sell another bottle? Can you have a return customer? And that last opportunity cost is way, way more expensive than

Jessie Ott (51:46)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (51:51)
than putting a little, some extra dollars on the cost of the production. And so that's the way that we work. And especially in the world that we're in right now, that cascades to the whole industry. that cascade, if a customer wants to sit there and actually have, if they're making that decision, am I gonna have nothing or am I gonna have full strength? And we think the market is still binary.

Jessie Ott (51:56)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Richard Schatzberger (52:15)
Right? It's still a binary market. You mentioned zebra striping. People are hacking their way to what they actually want. What they actually want is stuff in the middle. Not extreme choices. Let's just have what I have, what I'm looking for. And so we think the market's very binary right now with full strength or zero. And to us from a business opportunity.

Jessie Ott (52:23)
Hacking, I like it.

Richard Schatzberger (52:38)
The 13 and growing billion dollars and getting higher every year of the mostly non-alcoholic market is fantastic. Like I love that market. Like that is absolutely kind of what I'm drinking in evenings. But there's also a $1.7 trillion market of the full strength alcohol. And so that's actually where we're focusing our business is on how do we allow that kind of 1.7 trillion not to be locked into full strength, but to graduate.

break down and so we create this space in the middle which I think is where most people ultimately are going to want to live. It's like we think about ordering a glass of wine, nobody walks into a restaurant and says, can I have a 13.7 % alcohol ABV drink? They say can have a Merlot, can have a cab, can have a Chardonnay, they match their meal and their mood. And if you can have the same experience, it may not be exactly the same and we are not trying, we're trying to get close to one to one,

Ultimately, we are taking something fundamental out of a drink and kind of unbalancing it. What we're trying to create is something that is exactly the same experience as wine. And that's one of the key things. It's like as a company, we're never going to make the alkalized wine. Like that is not a product we will ever make. We will only make wine and it may have different alcohol levels, but we're only creating wine that a top winemaker would be proud to make. And I think that's kind of our focus.

would definitely kind of in this world of like have another grower market kind of what diet coke did or diet did for the soda industry, right? Like

they people were moving away from sugar and diet allowed people to stay within the category and to grow the category and now it's a quarter of the whole industry and so we see that same effect happening in the in the kind of adult beverage world shifting alcohol levels into different things and interestingly I heard a stat last night I haven't validated but it came from a reputable source when diet coke

came out, only 3 % of consumers said that they would drink it. And I think we're kind of in that, we've kind of been in it because it didn't taste great, right? was an evident.

Jessie Ott (54:52)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (54:52)
And look at it now, right? It is a powerhouse. And I think we're at that same moment in the NOLO space. There's an awful lot of press about it. I'm loving seeing it on menus, but it hasn't hit the kind of quality levels outside of beer, obviously, that I think people come to expect. And I think that's where value comes from. think that's why mocktails are so expensive. It's not the alcohol, it's the craft that's gone into it and the experience, the passion,

Jessie Ott (54:56)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (55:22)
that has gone into it from that bartender.

Jessie Ott (55:25)
Yeah. Well, the non-alcoholic spirits are not cheap. They're $30 to $40 a bottle too. And to your point, it's not the alcohol, it's the process. It's the glass, it's the labels, it's all the things, shipping, you know? So in terms of the technology, I'm not really sure all the different ones that exist. I know there's the cone.

the spinner cone or you know, is there anything that you can talk about when it comes to the technology or is that sort of under wraps for right now?

Richard Schatzberger (55:58)
A lot

of it is under wraps and it will stay under wraps. is kind of how we're building, that I can let the wine industry in, but we're still gonna have our little black box, which is kind of our IP. So some of the things that I can obviously talk about, our technology is called the Velvet Blade.

Jessie Ott (56:00)
Hmm

Richard Schatzberger (56:16)
Um, we chose that because of our approach, which is how are we extremely gentle and delicate and caring for the wine? Like the way that a winemaker looks after their wine is, is like meticulous and with craft and passion and delicateness. And then you come along and ship it somewhere and rip out the alcohol and put it back. And it's like, there's a big disconnect between those two worlds. And we're trying to kind of make sure that we're as gentle as possible with the velvet part.

precise as possible with the blade part. And that's really how we're looking at it. actually looked at the, ultimately we looked at the problem differently and we call ourselves premium flavor first alcohol removal as kind of how we've approached it. Those words are important, that's kind of having a story at the beginning of the process is how we kind of made some of these technical innovations. We think people were solving the wrong problem. They were

Jessie Ott (57:00)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (57:11)
They solved a problem for a market that kind of existed, which was cheap wine with less or no alcohol. And ultimately we took a different problem. We took the kind of premium craft obsessive wine making world and flavor first, because you give, we think people have been solving the wrong problem. you give people a...

task, and they usually try and achieve it, right? That's what a good job is. And so if you give somebody the task of dealkalization, they will go and work out how to dealkalize something and get the alcohol out. My team, gave a different task to which was, how do you retain the flavor? How do you retain the aroma? How do you retain the compounds and be absolutely obsessed with that problem and then gently remove the alcohol as part of the

Jessie Ott (57:56)
Right. I think that's the key

part that's been missing. Right. It's that mouth feel. It's because the alcohol adds the viscosity and so much to the texture. And so how do you replace that one element that that does give so much?

Richard Schatzberger (58:00)
Yeah, and we got.

But also the color, yeah, but it's also the

kind of.

experience that you have along the way when you look at your glass, does it look like that same cab that you're used to when you pull it up to your nose? Have you really have you come? Have you configured your brain into that pattern recognition? Because we are taking the alcohol out. I will not say that this has got the burn that you expect it has does have some level of reduction in mouthfeel because we've taken that component out.

Jessie Ott (58:20)
Yes.

Richard Schatzberger (58:40)
But what we've ended up with is, as we talked about before, it is real wine that has all the sensorial aspects of it. And it's multi-threaded, like sensorial experience. So that's what we've been obsessed with. Like when I pick up the glass, put it to my mouth, when I smell it, when, and then when I'm,

take a sip, do I have those same components that I'm expecting from a oaky or buttery or floral wine? And we keep all of those pieces, even though we remove the alcohol molecule. So we keep the integrity and the terroir and kind of all of the different components within the wine that matter that make it wine, not a grape juice.

Jessie Ott (59:14)
Yeah.

That's really cool, because that's what's missing. I mean, there's a lot of technologies out there, but this one sounds a lot more complex than what I've seen or read so far.

Richard Schatzberger (59:27)
Thank you.

Yeah, I think it's whether it's complex or whether it's obsessive and kind of we've obsessed over the details and simple things are often the hardest things to do. But a little bit more about our technology, we're 100 % membrane based. that brings a lot and membranes have been around for a long time, right? This is nothing new. But the differences between membranes and the advances that have happened over the past 10 years in the membrane industry are immense. we have, again, kind of Dr. Bopal

Jessie Ott (59:40)
Hehehehe ⁓

Richard Schatzberger (1:00:03)
hand

kind of leading that from a membrane perspective. There's a lot of nuances and a lot of science that goes into this. So our membranes are both gentle on the beverage, so we don't use heat. We don't use massive amounts of pressure. So we're not vacuum distillation, which is a kind of functional physical process that yes, it's at lower temperature now, but it's still a physical process that impacts the entirety of the wine. If you look at things

like reverse osmosis and things like that, that's a massive amount of pressure trying to force something through a sieve. That pressure is bad on the wine, it's bad on the environment and it's bad on your bottom line because you're using a lot of energy. Spinning Cone Column is a technology that disassembles a wine. A winemaker puts something in a barrel to kind of

come together and then you apply a technology that's a stripping technology and you kind of break the integrity of that wine. Where our membrane technology is a little different. It's very much about kind of both its rejectivity over the compounds and that's one of the key advantages of our technology. We reject the things that most membranes, because there are membrane dealkylization technologies out there, we've built a system that's rejected to that and then selective over the ethanol.

at the same time. And so that kind of dual thinking has created something that keeps the integrity of the wine. And we've been putting this in front of some of the best winemakers in the world at every kind of size of wineries. And the most common reaction is this is just wine. Like I drink this. I think that's the of the winemakers that we're doing this. And so

Jessie Ott (1:01:37)
That's impressive.

Richard Schatzberger (1:01:44)
understanding winemaker needs is actually key to our business. And we built our business around that as well. While we are a technology company, we have a team in a company that's a little different as well and have been from the early days, which is we have people like Joel Aiken, who is the head winemaker from BV Wines for 27 years and a well-known winemaking consultant in Napa is an integral part of our company. And so we kind of look at it from the

winemaker and then kind of wine craft perspective, knowing that you can't just solve this with just a metal machine, right? Like that is not going to solve such a complex problem. It has to be this kind of fusion of nature, vintage culture, winemaking and technology and marketing all at the same time. We have a sommelier that works in our Phoenix lab and Mark Stern, he literally drinks every single thing that comes out of the system and every single component that comes out of the system.

always making sure that our scientists are looking at both the kind of analytical data, but also what is this doing for the human experience with every change, every tweak that we make to the membranes or the system. We're always making sure that we're making a better product. And so, so it's fun. It's well.

Jessie Ott (1:02:57)
That's really awesome.

Richard Schatzberger (1:03:01)
And we're seeing good things. one of the interesting we're seeing, and we'll send you some to taste, about kind of raw, straight through the system, kind of you'll get to see kind of what our system creates. But when we put that in front of kind of normal wine drinkers, about 75 % of people prefer our low alcohol version than the original wine, which I think is a very different thing.

Jessie Ott (1:03:02)
Yeah, sounds like it.

That's flipping the industry on its head.

Richard Schatzberger (1:03:27)
I don't think there's

anything else out there that basically is somebody said I would prefer this over it for just flavor profile. And I think that's a very special thing on what that does for the wine industry.

Jessie Ott (1:03:36)
Over. Yep.

Richard Schatzberger (1:03:43)
is alcohol, it allows them to create new usage, occasions, new products, and kind of new revenue streams because this is wine that people because it's got less alcohol, it's also got less calories. It can be used in and kind of marketed in all sorts of different situations where wines locked out of if you think about wine in cans right now. I spoke to one winemaker a little while ago.

Jessie Ott (1:03:43)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:04:08)
and she was making a wine in a can and her friends called it blackout juice. Because one kind of 12, 13 % ABV wine with two glasses in it, you drink it. It's in a drinking experience, it's the same as an RTD. And most RTDs are in that kind of five to 10 % ABV. If you're at 10, you know you're drinking a real thing. They're mostly around five to seven. You drink them like a beer. But if you drink two glasses of wine like a beer,

you're not going to be buying another can. So these kind of new locations, contacts, brands that can emerge out of this when you take the alcohol out, I think is the exciting thing. think we'll still see those bottles of wine where it's like you walk into a wine store and it's like, I've got choice of wine A or wine B.

Jessie Ott (1:04:36)
Right.

Richard Schatzberger (1:04:53)
And that's how you'll navigate kind of the simple kind of wine world. And why wouldn't you have less alcohol if you get the same experience? And then these new category changing beverages and product types that are going to be exciting coming out of this. So, and then we'll be getting to spirits. we're not focusing. Yeah. So we're working on some prototypes right now.

Jessie Ott (1:05:10)
Well, and that's my next question. Because can you do it?

Richard Schatzberger (1:05:18)
Um, we're focusing, we're a startup, we are focusing on the wine world. That is a big enough market, um, for a startup to focus on. And we're solving two problems in the wine industry. One is this kind of like, how does the wine industry keep up with cultural change? And when you're locked into 14%, you can't change that much other than the label and the packaging. Um, so that opens this new door. Um, but also there is the need because of climate change for wineries to be reduced in the output.

alcohol,

warmer temperatures, more sugar, which creates more alcohol. So the wine industry is seeing this problem that kind of those 13, 14, 15s are coming in a few degrees hotter than they want to make wine at. So

Our technology is also a tool for those winemakers who aren't ready to get into the low, no, out space. They can start using our technology to sweet spot and kind of what we call slice a couple of percent of alcohol without damaging the taste profile. So the wine industry, we've got both of those worlds. Spirits is obviously where's next. We were very fortunate and very happy to have...

Suntory invest in this round through their new CBC. So I see a lot of opportunities there and we're running.

Jessie Ott (1:06:33)
wow.

Richard Schatzberger (1:06:38)
new trials with spirits and we've got an advanced, we're working on advanced research for the next generation of membranes as well.

Jessie Ott (1:06:45)
I can't wait to have a Jim Beam seven year old fashioned with lower alcohol. I love the flavor, you can't drink too many of them. Not that I need to, but I'm just saying it's like, I'd love to have that experience without the alcohol.

Richard Schatzberger (1:07:03)
But I think exactly what you just said, not that I need to, you're, I'm going to read it between the lines, not that you need to, you were talking about the ethanol and the alcohol. weren't a wonderful experience of sitting down at the end of a day, kind of reminiscing over the day with friends or partners. And that's what we want more of. Like, and I think your reaction is

Jessie Ott (1:07:15)
Yeah, I don't need it.

Yep.

Yeah, I do.

I want Jim Beam seven year so that I can make my old fashions with my cherry and my orange and my bitters. And then I want some adaptogens in there that make me relax. So it's not the alcohol that's helping me relax. It's something healthy for me. That would be like, yeah, obviously that's one of my favorite brands. I've repped it for a long time and I just, I'm I'm a bourbon girl.

But yeah, I mean, you know, the trend for bourbon, it's, super hot. You know, it's a hundred plus and

Richard Schatzberger (1:07:59)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

That leaves a lot of consumers out of that game that don't exactly.

Jessie Ott (1:08:04)
Yeah, it's just really hard

to, yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:08:08)
Yep, so the Beams and Suntory team have been fantastic and we're so happy to have them as part of this journey.

Jessie Ott (1:08:11)
Super.

I'm really

excited to hear that. That makes me very happy because that's a global reach company, obviously.

Richard Schatzberger (1:08:17)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I think from our perspective and the time I've spent with the team, the family driven passion, long-term decision-making is very exciting and has been a, has been a, made them a fantastic partner for a startup.

Jessie Ott (1:08:37)
I reached out to, they hired the first woman president of like soda division or something in Japan. And I really wanted her on my podcast. She probably doesn't speak English, but anyway, they were in such Japanese culture fashion. Thank you so much for asking. We wish you all the best of luck. She's not interviewing right now, you know, whatever it was, but they're just very polite and very respectful.

Richard Schatzberger (1:09:03)
Yeah, and I think the Beam Suntory world is fantastic. You get in to of look at kind of different markets from different perspectives. You've got kind of the very historic US and historic Japanese market with craft and obsession from kind of both sides. So it does have that global perspective, I love.

Jessie Ott (1:09:21)
Yep, great.

And then sake is growing too. It's another, it's, it's brewed. So it's slightly different technology, but it's still this, would, I would imagine the similar process of using your knife or whatever to cut the alcohol. So, you know, it's a smaller, certainly a smaller piece of the overall business here. Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:09:26)
Yep.

in the US, but ultimately

we're have machines in every location and we'll be getting to that scale. That's what we decided to build instead of just building a single brand, which can succeed or fail. It'll be very, very successful. We're here to be a tool for everybody to succeed.

Jessie Ott (1:10:00)
So

you're, you're going to sell the technology to us to a winery.

Richard Schatzberger (1:10:05)
So we're going to be doing both. we're actually, as I've learned with developing products, your beta product and your first product is not always the final product that you put in front of a consumer.

Jessie Ott (1:10:06)
Okay.

Yeah.

Right.

Richard Schatzberger (1:10:18)
and so we're going to start as with service. so with those beta customers and then our first customers that, the customers that we believe are going to create the best products in the world, to set the stage, to re raise the bar of what quality is. we'll be doing that in collaboration with them along with there's a number of, new brands that are not winemakers, that see market opportunity. we're partnerships with, with new brands to bring.

their idea and their vision to life with both that kind of technology and our wine making and product development team. have not only Joel Aiken, we have a number of other people that are part of the team that are beverage makers to help those product innovators create a product. So we'll be both wineries and new product developers. When we got to the...

Jessie Ott (1:11:05)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:11:10)
version that I'm happy with of the machine, then yes, then we start to sell those machines into the wine world.

Jessie Ott (1:11:16)
Gotcha. Okay. Awesome. Well, is there anything else that we haven't talked about? We got to get, get talking a little bit more about you again.

Richard Schatzberger (1:11:24)
I think I'm happy to answer any other questions as you can probably tell I love this subject.

Jessie Ott (1:11:30)
Yeah, it's awesome. So do you want to...

What's that?

Richard Schatzberger (1:11:34)
I did this starting with a dream and a passion and that's still very much there and kind of we've just got amazing partners that are bringing that to life. So it's a great time.

Jessie Ott (1:11:44)
It's amazing when it all comes together. That's cool. Yeah, it does. Awesome. Well, in terms of you like switching over to mentors, I know you've already talked a little bit about that. Is there anyone else you want to mention?

Richard Schatzberger (1:11:47)
Yes, feels good. Yeah.

I've always been the weird one. So it's kind of been an interesting career journey. It's kind of like, well, Richard's weird, we're not sure where to put him. mentors come from every...

Jessie Ott (1:12:10)
I wouldn't

call you weird, I think you have a niche.

Richard Schatzberger (1:12:14)
That's nice. There we go. I like that ⁓

Jessie Ott (1:12:16)
Yeah, you're,

you have a very special skill.

Richard Schatzberger (1:12:19)
Thank you. Honestly, I tell you who my biggest mentors and I talked about this in the.

and unfortunately I...

And I shouldn't say this and it's not an excuse. got a little, little too busy and a little too much hectic travel life. Um, probably the people I've learned the most from recently, I started working with a robotics, um, group and Watts in Los Angeles. Um, this is probably the worst area you could possibly live in Los Angeles. Um, the average salary is $13,000 for a family household income. And so I.

I

started doing a little bit of what I thought I was mentoring. When I went into it, I was like, hey, I'm to go mentor these kids on technology and help them understand kind of the future and what their job's going to be. And it was exactly the opposite. Like the kids in this program, it's called First Robotics.

And every other school and group that's in first robotics is usually like a well-to-do school in a well-to-do area. This was very, very different. They were truly what you see as the underdogs. Disney actually did a documentary on them. I can't remember what the name is. blanked. But it's a Disney documentary on robots.

They taught me everything. they, the passion, their ability to juggle multiple projects, to have jobs, to do this after school, to kind of be the few people. And it was a mentality, it's like of getting into college. I think I learned a whole bunch of things there. One was like, how do you...

take complex things and make them simple. And not because I was trying to simplify things, but they just had a different way of talking about things that kind of really opened my eyes from that kind of, they were kind of.

Jessie Ott (1:14:08)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:14:13)
It ranged from kind of 13 to 17 years old and kind of how they could look at problems and explain them was eye-opening to me. How they could kind of manage and compartmentalize kind of completely different things in their lives, whether they were and where how they overcame problems. Like some of the things that they talked about in their day-to-day life of living in Watts and how they could kind of navigate kind of those multiple worlds.

at once for a CEO and kind of all the different things and kind of people come to a CEO when there's a problem, right? That's usually the moment that it's like, hey, Richard, there's this thing, can you help us fix it? Or can you support us in fixing it? I think that was just pretty magical as a mentorship perspective was that ability to kind of

Jessie Ott (1:14:51)
right?

Richard Schatzberger (1:15:04)
keep going in the face of true adversity. like, as having a problem, it always comes along. Every day there's something that needs to be moved through, but those were real problems and they didn't stop. And that was, again, kind of that mentorship. So I think that was probably the biggest mind shift that I had and respect that I had from a group of people. And it wasn't where I expected it to come from.

Jessie Ott (1:15:22)
That's cool.

Richard Schatzberger (1:15:31)
In business, I've seen geniuses around me a lot. But it's always different people. I think that's what I love to learn from it. It's like, how does an AI scientist's brain work?

and how do they solve problems versus amazing CFOs that have built and sold massive businesses. being able to kind of look inside those brains of like, how do you solve a problem and who do you call on? I think now in this space, I've managed to be lucky enough to surround myself with some fantastic people that I feel very, very comfortable picking up the phone to and going, I'm new to this industry. Like, can you give me advice?

So I got a new set of mentors that I've come through in the wine industry. I think there's definitely just this kind of kindness and kind of it's a slightly different. It's definitely a different world. It's not this kind of I'm battling against my competition. It's more.

Jessie Ott (1:16:13)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:16:30)
more human and more kind of natural kind of way of doing business. Obviously there's still kind of corporate infrastructures and things like that, but when it comes to the wine world, I've seen some very different people.

Interestingly, back to that circle, my kind of the mentor that I've always said I've had was a guy called Simon Waterfall and we're back in this circle again. He gave me my first job. When I was sitting as a college student, kind of presenting my CD-ROM designs at a big kind of design showcase, he came along, saw my work and gave me a job basically on the spot, which was

Jessie Ott (1:17:03)
That's cool.

Richard Schatzberger (1:17:07)
was lovely. He was a different kind of person. Like he was, he didn't approach problems the same way. And he was able to what I loved about kind of my education and kind of mentorship from him, he could play with the CEO of British Telecom, and he would sit on the floor and solve a problem and fix a table at the same time. And I think that ability, and those are the types of there's kind of two types of mentors that I look for is kind of who's got that kind of obsessive, I used to

obsessive a lot obsessively, that kind of deep technical, whatever their industry is, and that can be an AI scientist or a membrane scientist like Bo and how did they think, but also those people who can connect business and humans. And I think those are the two types of mentors that I like to surround myself with.

Jessie Ott (1:17:55)
That's really interesting.

And hard to find, I would imagine. ⁓

Richard Schatzberger (1:17:59)
Yeah, you don't.

I haven't found the ability. I haven't managed in my career to kind of like some people say that I've got a mentor and I found this person. I haven't. It's always been kind of the right person at the right time to guide me along the journey. ⁓ That's kind of been my kind of mentor journey and willingness to just be

Jessie Ott (1:18:14)
That's cool.

Richard Schatzberger (1:18:19)
honest and transparent and kind of say, I've got a problem and how would you solve it? It's not my best trait. I think I can solve a lot of problems myself, but I've learned along the way that that's not always true. What I need to do is inspire the right people to come on the journey with me and help solve the problem, not my problem. And I think that's definitely the difference. I don't look to mentors to kind of necessarily just improve me. It's like how do

I get the change that I want to see in the world to happen.

Jessie Ott (1:18:51)
Yeah, no, I love that. That's awesome. What about any resources that you recommend people to check out? Is there anything in particular that was important for you?

Richard Schatzberger (1:19:01)
My, this is gonna sound silly. My biggest resource is the world around me and going and watching, going and listening. Like I'm a sober person that I don't spit, like I only drink zero zero. Like I don't even drink less than 0.5. I'm in the wine world, which is a very subjective.

world, my job and people often ask me this is like, how do you do this job if you don't drink the wine? And it's actually been a good experience for me because I can't have my own opinion. I can only actually listen to customers and experts. And that has kind of given me this kind of nice separation to be able to watch. And I think kind of my, biggest resource in the world is like going and sitting in those places, right? It's going.

Jessie Ott (1:19:48)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:19:49)
If I want to start thinking about what's it like to be, what does a winemaker need? Go be at a winery. Like, what does it mean to be a farmer in India? Go sit in the field and kind of spend time with them and watch them and listen, I think, from a...

I, you can not often get, and it's very important to do that desk research. And I, that's kind of a big proponent. It's, it's, it's all of these things, but the biggest one to me is just get out there and, kind of spend time and just be continuously listening. I mean, you can't, I never turned my brain off and I'm always trying to kind of connect dots, but,

The resources, they're in front of you. It's just get out and spend a minute. Don't sit in a boardroom, don't sit in a meeting room, don't sit in your office, don't sit behind a computer or your phone. Like get out there and watch and listen.

Jessie Ott (1:20:30)
Yeah.

You know, I love that. That human connection too falls into play right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Richard Schatzberger (1:20:43)
Yeah. Also more fun. it's just a struggle. think the hardest thing to do

is to like, remind yourself that that is valuable. Like if you sit in front of a computer.

And your green dot on your Slack or your green dot on whatever thing is like showing that I'm working. Like that's not, that's not always working and persuading myself that kind of the more valuable thing to do is to turn that green dot off and get out there is still working. And so that's, that's from my perspective.

Jessie Ott (1:21:17)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. What about a pain point that you've experienced that you wanna kinda talk about how you overcame it? I know there's a lot of trial and error and all the things, but is there anything that stands out in particular that you're really proud of, you and your team?

Richard Schatzberger (1:21:36)
honestly, it's every week that there's that and I think that's that's the key thing and it's like honestly the it's trust and

Jessie Ott (1:21:40)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:21:47)
I, everything's the same. Like if I, if I close my eyes and kind of systematically slice my life back, it's always been the same thing. There's always been a problem. There's always been, there's never been a moment in life that where there isn't something. It's gonna happen. And I think kind of to me, it's less about the individual problem and more about the trust between the team.

Jessie Ott (1:22:02)
Especially when you're building things from scratch like you have been. Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:22:14)
and the fact that you will overcome it, that's problem solving to me. It's like, you will get there. You make the right phone call. Your wife drives up to the right Starbucks. Like, can solve all the problems. The problems will get solved. And I think it's very much just trusting that you will be able to solve it no matter what. Otherwise, you become paralyzed. And I think that's the...

that to me is problem solving is not being paralyzed by the problem itself and being able to kind of get out of your own space, own anxiety, own fear, and just kind of take a step back and go, how can we solve this problem rather than how can I solve this problem? And I've got a team that I'm so honored and kind of...

have gratitude for that, like everybody trusts me. And that doesn't just mean the team inside the organization. That means customers. That means my family. That means my friends that kind of are around me that kind of have got that level of trust. That's like, we're going to get through whatever was going to come out in front of us next week. And I think that to me is, is, is those, those big problems like every day. There's, there's something it's like, it doesn't matter how

Jessie Ott (1:23:26)
Yeah. Well, when you're

startup and you're building a new company, that's what it is. You know, that's part of it.

Richard Schatzberger (1:23:34)
Yeah. And that's part of the fun. it was that easy, or part of the fun for me, I guess, is if it was dead simple and a straight path, I probably wouldn't be doing this. And I think it's, it is the complexity and the kind of risk and challenge that makes this fun. Cause work is life. And if I'm not enjoying it, then it's, it's not worth doing because there's always going to be a next problem.

Jessie Ott (1:24:01)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. In terms of the wine industry, know, we've, we ebbs and flows and ebbs and flows. Do you feel like your technology, I'm not saying it's going to bail it out or anything, but do you feel like it's a, it's a missing element to the greater category that you might be able to help save some of that decline?

and help it kind of turn around a little bit.

Richard Schatzberger (1:24:26)
Enjoy.

So I don't think it'll stop the decline. I think what it will do is help with a new future. And I know that kind of, I think there's a difference. If you look at this as a fix to a problem that exists, you're not looking at the problem. And I think, so it's like, can you kind of cross that gap and go, where do we want to go with this industry? And let's look to that because the wine industry is staying around.

Right? It's grown. And so these ebb and flows, I'm like, I'm coming into this industry at a very weird time. Right? It's like.

Jessie Ott (1:24:59)
Yeah. yeah, forever. It's been around thousands of years.

Richard Schatzberger (1:25:12)
maybe it would be more fun if I was coming up on the Uprise when it was all fabulous and it was just like everything kind of worked perfectly. But again, kind of I like to put myself in these situations where it is a little bit more challenging.

But I'm not here. I don't I'm not going to fix the we're not here to fix the wine industry. What we are to do is to give kind of a new option for the wine industry for those who decide to come along and kind of do that. You've been doing a great job without me. Right. Like I there's no credit I can take in any way ever for what has been built over centuries and kind of for kind of

other people kind of taking risks and doing different things. We're just something, a new option that if you want to take it, I think ultimately there's been massive growth in the wine industry and kind of while there's consolidation from a kind of corporate level, there's also fragmentation from a brand level. Like the choices of wine is just...

immense. There's a billboard LA for total wine that says, we've got 8800 wine, like types of wine. That's too much, right? Like that really is too much for for for an industry for one store, right? It's like, there aren't many other stores out there that you would walk in and say, I've got eight

Jessie Ott (1:26:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:26:39)
1800 similar products. And obviously there's massive difference between brand and heritage and craft and price points and all of those different things.

But that to me is too many. So I think ultimately what's actually happening in the wine industry is just a reconfiguration. And I think sometimes that always happens in industries, right? The best, hopefully, and whatever the best is will succeed. And then there's a new appetite for what's next. And I think once that kind of shrinkage happens, then it can re-expand. So we're there for the expansion.

Jessie Ott (1:27:12)
Yeah. No.

Well, I think it's well-needed technology. I'm excited for you and your team. It sounds like you've got a real well-oiled machine over there and you guys are really clicking and you've got all the right people in the right parts. And I'm just really excited to hear those types of stories. you know, I always say like, whatever I can do to help, just let me know because, you know,

We're all, we're all here together to support each other. and yeah, of course. I mean, this is such a needed technology. You're in, you're obviously doing this all the right ways and in the right directions. I mean, the next, we could be having a completely different conversation in a year from now. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you're getting your building set up in Napa. That's going to be huge.

Richard Schatzberger (1:27:43)
That's way to look at it. I appreciate that.

A week from now, that's the start up.

Jessie Ott (1:28:06)
And then once you start getting bigger trials of volume, that's gonna really catapult this and like you said, in a way to scale like that has never been done before.

Richard Schatzberger (1:28:18)
That's all I'm hoping. I honestly got lucky. The timing arrived at a perfect fulcrum point. Other people have done great things with technologies. Everybody started out with an ambition. I think we just...

literally got lucky in that thing. Consumer behavior and need and technology. And now is the time. And I feel very honored and lucky to be in an industry that I can come in and add a little bit of value, hope to. ultimately, to create better experiences for people. Like, that's why I'm here for.

Jessie Ott (1:28:49)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:28:50)
is to have

Jessie Ott (1:28:50)
Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:28:51)
more fun, more time with each other, more stories. If I hear one story that was either somebody had a less negative experience or a more positive experience because of the product I put into the world, then everything's worth it.

Jessie Ott (1:29:05)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. it's, it will. It definitely will. Yeah. A hundred percent. And you know, if you can get that spirit figured out, that's going to be huge too. You know, that will, that will be, that'll be remarkable.

Richard Schatzberger (1:29:09)
I so.

Yeah.

Jessie Ott (1:29:22)
Is there anything we haven't touched on that you want to mention?

Richard Schatzberger (1:29:25)
I could keep going, keep going all day if we want to. I think that's, that's really the key. think the

one thing I'll say is we would still love those forward thinking, people with heritage, or what we like to call our heritage forward brands, that have got that history, that have got that craft, that are looking for what's next.

and brands that are wanting to go create the next product and need a partner to go do that with. Our beta program is open right now and we're looking for people who want to come on this journey with us that are willing to kind of start where we are and get to a bigger brighter future together.

Jessie Ott (1:30:03)
I love it. That's awesome. Is there any way, do how do you, you like people to connect with you like on your website?

Richard Schatzberger (1:30:11)
Yep, if anybody wants to go to our website, it's alterfilter.com. So that's A-L-T-R, F-L-T-R.com. Or you can email me at richard at alterfilter.com. And I would be more than happy to chat.

Jessie Ott (1:30:26)
Awesome. Awesome, awesome, awesome. So one last question. What do you do when you're not working? What are your passions?

Richard Schatzberger (1:30:36)
bizarrely travel. even though I like to sit still when I travel, being, as I'm usually traveling anyway, I like new experiences, new people. that's, know that's a generic answer, but it really is kind of looking at the world from different perspectives. Kind of, it's kind of to me. and I like vintage cars. that's. ⁓

Jessie Ott (1:30:53)
Yeah.

Nice, what's your favorite?

Richard Schatzberger (1:30:58)
My favorite one is mine. It's my dream car. So I got a little old 911 Targa. It's 40 years old, I think this year. and that's my day forever.

Jessie Ott (1:31:02)
Nice.

That's great.

that's really cool. I did read, what's that? Go ahead.

Richard Schatzberger (1:31:14)
With all the technology,

I surround myself, there's something very soothing and calming of like zero technology and ⁓ magic old cars without any ABS or anything else.

Jessie Ott (1:31:25)
Hahaha!

It's got an eight track tape maybe. That's

funny. That's really cool. I did read somewhere about your favorite cocktail. mean, non-alcoholic, of course. And I think it's, is it tonic with olive juice and an olive and a martini glass?

Richard Schatzberger (1:31:47)
It is and I, if there's one little personal thing that I want to want to have out there, it's that it's been a fantastic cocktail for me getting sober because it's the semi simple kind of most people look at me weird when I first order it and then go, this is interesting. So it is it's tonic water with olive juice chilled in a martini glass with two olives and

that is my drink. And there's something special about it and kind of, which is when you're sitting with everybody else, you'd look exactly the same. There's no conversation about what's wrong with you. You drink it and most importantly, and this is why I added the olive juice to start with, was because it makes you drink it at the same speed as everybody else. So if somebody's having a standard martini,

and I'm having what I call the Rich 77 is yeah, yeah, we'll do we're at the Rich 77 on menus everywhere one day. And so yeah, you drink it at the same speed with that same kind of behavior. So it's about kind of

Jessie Ott (1:32:38)
That's what you call it?

I love it.

Richard Schatzberger (1:32:50)
fitting into sync and fitting into that pattern that everybody else has, no matter how much alcohol is in it. And that to me is important. There's way too many mocktails out there or diet coke water that you drink at a different speed. And that drink at a different speed puts you out of sync, which then kind of creates that social imbalance, which is what we're trying to solve here, right? It's like, how do you just kind of have normal behaviors and drink what you want?

Jessie Ott (1:33:18)
Yeah, no, 100%. 100%. I like that idea. And who doesn't love, you know, olive juice and like in a cocktail? Whether it has booze in it or not, it's the show. It's the star of the show.

Richard Schatzberger (1:33:34)
It's

nicely chilled, you get the bubbles out. It's just like, it's a good crisp, but like with some kind of a bite in it.

Jessie Ott (1:33:42)
Yeah. Well, it sounds very refreshing actually.

Richard Schatzberger (1:33:46)
Next meal, you have your bartender look at your little strange and then take a taste and go, yeah, that's all right.

Jessie Ott (1:33:48)
Yeah.

That would be funny. I might have to do that as a test just to see. But you know, it's just so normalized now in most restaurants that have cocktails. You know? Yeah.

Richard Schatzberger (1:34:03)
Yeah, and that feels so good because it's

only been in recent times.

Jessie Ott (1:34:08)
Yeah. Yeah. Our hairdresser told us about this new restaurant. And so we've been a couple of times and they've got, cocktails. mean, some we're in, you know, Florida, so it's not a ton of, mean, Orlando, certainly. I mean, we even have a non-alcoholic, hotel that is a high-end experience with chefs and cocktails, called the Ette Hotel.

Richard Schatzberger (1:34:31)
I'm gonna be checking.

Jessie Ott (1:34:31)
So

it is a part of culture here. I interviewed another bar owner that just did mocktails and they sold spirits there too. Wine and spirits actually. And it was like an seat little retro like design place and he's kind of an actor so he would, you know, do his little thing and it was a cool spot. And so, you know, it is part of the culture here.

And it's definitely becoming more and more so on menus. And that's great. Because like you said, who cares?

Richard Schatzberger (1:34:58)
Yeah.

Exactly. doesn't, if you're not having a good conversation, it's your guess that you need to change, not the alcohol.

Jessie Ott (1:35:09)
Not

the alcohol. Good point. That's funny. man. Well, I think we'll end on that one. That was great. again, hats off to you and all of your success over, all of your experiences are very impressive. And I'm really super impressed with this one. think you're going to knock it out of the park. So ⁓ yeah, I look forward to trying those samples one of these days and

Richard Schatzberger (1:35:26)
Thank you.

Jessie Ott (1:35:31)
Definitely stay in touch.

Richard Schatzberger (1:35:32)
Yep, we'll get some out to you and thank you so much for this. This has both been enjoyable and kind of a kind of insightful thing as well because chatting to people helps us understand the market better. The more that we talk, the more that we have relationships and do this. Like next time we'll do it over a non and low alcoholic drink, but this is what life's about. Thank you for having me on.

Jessie Ott (1:35:53)
Yeah. Well, yeah, maybe we

should just check in. We'll do a one year check in and we'll have a non-alcoholic tonic and olive martini.

Richard Schatzberger (1:35:59)
Yep.

There we go. Let's do that. Excellent. Wonderful. Jesse, thank you again. I've really enjoyed this. See you soon.

Jessie Ott (1:36:07)
Okay. That'd be fun. I'd like that. Okay. Sweet. Yeah. Well, I will. Yeah,

of course. Likewise, I will let you get back to your day and I'm looking forward to seeing all your success.

Richard Schatzberger (1:36:23)
Thank you. Appreciate you very much. Take care.

Jessie Ott (1:36:26)
Take care. Bye.