From Anthropology to Drinks: Erica Duecy's Story

📢I talk🎙️with Erica Duecy about her foray into the beverage industry from a wonderful career at Conde Naste Publications. She now has The Business of Drinks Consulting and Podcast. 👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂  😁

Sound Bites

"It's not just an email list anymore."
"We need to help raise up women leaders."
"Customization is a growing trend."

📽️ Watch on YouTube! 🎞️ https://youtu.be/lB65un5P0Sg

Highlights include:
🍷 Authentic storytelling and branding.
📊 Data-driven marketing strategies for drinks professionals.
🌟 How wine brands can engage millennials and Gen Z consumers.
🥤 Exploring functional beverages, RTDs, and non-alcoholic trends.

Summary

🍷✨ Let’s dive into the ever-changing world of drinks, where journalism, data, and consumer trends collide! 🎙️ Erica takes us on her journey from studying anthropology to shaping stories as a journalist. She spills the tea (or wine!) on her publishing adventures and how she created SevenFifty Daily, the go-to trade publication for the drinks biz. 📰🍾

Erica and Jessie dig into all the juicy details: why authentic storytelling matters, how the wine industry is tackling big challenges, and why brands must keep up with the tastes of younger generations. 🥂🍇

They also chat about the coolest trends shaking up the industry—like innovative packaging, beverages tailored to you, and the rise of premium non-alcoholic options. 🥤✨ Plus, they highlight the power of mentorship for women in wine 🍷💪 and peek into the crystal ball for 2025, sharing how brands can stay ahead by planning smart and staying adaptable. 💡🌟

This convo is a must-listen for anyone thirsty for insight into the future of wine and beverages! 🥳📈

Batonnage Forum Advising Young Women Leaders of Tomorrow!
https://www.batonnageforum.com/

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Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:28 Introduction and Background
• 6:35 Exploring the Drinks Industry
• 12:29 Founding SevenFifty Daily and Data Insights
• 18:24 Leveraging Data for Marketing Strategies
• 28:21 Authenticity in Storytelling and Data
• 34:17 Innovative Marketing Strategies for Wine Brands
• 40:32 The Shift in Wine Consumption and Packaging Formats
• 50:22 The Future of Alcohol Consumption and Customization Trends
• 55:39 Marketing by Vibe and Flavor
• 57:14 Mentors
• 57:14 Resources
• 1:01:27 Understanding Consumer Behavior
• 1:06:18 Innovations in the Beverage Industry
• 1:12:20 Outlook for 2025 and Industry Challenges
• 1:19:22 Personal Interests and Travel Experiences

Transcript

Jessie Ott (00:01.143)
Hello everybody and welcome to Thursday Thursdays I'm Jessie Ott and I have Erica Ducey here today with The Business of Drinks Hello Erica welcome.

Erica Duecy (00:10.904)
Hi, Jesse. So glad to be here.

Jessie Ott (00:13.42)
Yeah, I'm stoked. We just had a great panel discussion that came out in a couple of parts, the first part of this year, which we recorded in December. And that was really fun, wasn't it?

Erica Duecy (00:26.19)
I loved it. Yeah. mean, so many good insights. think just it was a group of really talented women from throughout the drinks industry and everyone's insights were totally fascinating and also right on.

Jessie Ott (00:37.228)
Yeah, agreed. And the more I've kind of been out there listening and looking out on LinkedIn on insights and whatnot, even maybe not so much just in the alcohol industry, but just with consumers and the younger generation of flavors, it's just coming from all directions. And it's really fascinating.

Erica Duecy (00:55.506)
Yeah. Totally, totally.

Jessie Ott (00:59.374)
So where are you calling from?

Erica Duecy (01:00.85)
So I am in Jersey City, New Jersey, right across the river from Manhattan. And yeah, and live here with my husband and two kids. yeah, I mean, we've been here for a long time. We lived in Brooklyn before this, Jersey City, underrated, underdog city. Yeah, totally. But we love it. It's a great place. Yeah, totally.

Jessie Ott (01:03.128)
Okay.

Nice.

Jessie Ott (01:19.723)
Dunderdog. Those are the best.

Yeah, I lived in New York for about almost three years. And so I've, I've been over there a few times. and you know, just to check it out, I've been down to the ocean city, the ocean city down there. It's really fun. You know, the boardwalk and everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:37.498)
Yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah, I love that. Like Brighton Beach area and like Coney Island and like, yeah, so much stuff to see around here.

Jessie Ott (01:48.364)
Yeah, I went to a wedding a long time ago, it seems now, but it was in northern New Jersey and it was really beautiful up there.

Erica Duecy (01:56.402)
Yeah, I know. I grew up in Seattle and I did not expect that New Jersey would actually be really green and beautiful. But alas, it is. It's not just what you see when you like drive down 95 and like you see some like terribly polluting factories like right from the, you know, car window. But there's a lot of really beautiful places in New Jersey I have found and I've been pleasantly surprised.

Jessie Ott (02:06.306)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (02:22.894)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. Great places. So you're from Seattle.

Erica Duecy (02:29.966)
Yeah, grew up in Seattle and I kind of yeah, love Seattle some parts more than others. But yeah, grew up on the West coast and kind of hopscotch around the country lived in Miami and Chicago and San Francisco went to undergrad in Philadelphia area. So, you know, kind of have lived in many different places around the US before land.

Jessie Ott (02:32.994)
Get row!

Jessie Ott (02:57.42)
Yeah, you hit them all, except for Texas, I believe.

Erica Duecy (03:01.13)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Most markets. But yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I think from my perspective, like publishing, right? So I went to grad school for journalism in Chicago area. And I, after that, it was kind of like, Hey, if you're going to be in publishing, you have to go to New York. So that landed me here 20 some odd years ago and met my husband pretty quickly and realized that this is where I was going to stay.

Jessie Ott (03:29.614)
Yeah, I lasted about three years out there and then I took a job within the Remy business, field marketing, and then they moved me to Atlanta, Fort Lauderdale, and then Dallas and then moved on from there. yeah, not quite as much as you. used to, because I went to grad school in France and lived in Paris for a minute. I used to have a...

Erica Duecy (03:32.71)
Ay-yah.

Erica Duecy (03:45.766)
Wow, yeah.

life.

Erica Duecy (03:56.486)
Nice.

Jessie Ott (03:59.546)
a cutesy little thing. It's like, yeah, I'm a real gypsy. I've lived in 25 cities and two countries and five states or whatever. and I play guitar! Which I don't anymore.

Erica Duecy (04:06.706)
that.

That's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And my side hustle is a subway busker. So there you go.

Jessie Ott (04:16.258)
There you go. man. I remember being in the subway once and for some reason we had our cards in our pocket. We went shopping at Ikea or something, my girlfriend and I, and she's like, just jump the fence, just, jump the subway thing. And I'm like, well, why it's right here. And so we jumped it and we got caught and we had to pay a fine.

Erica Duecy (04:33.188)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (04:37.138)
Oh-ho-ho-ho!

That's terrible!

Jessie Ott (04:41.73)
Yeah. So silly. So juvenile. our twenties.

Erica Duecy (04:45.49)
Exactly, like why? Why didn't you move it? I know, oh my gosh, oh the kids, the kids.

Jessie Ott (04:54.067)
the kids. the kids. So how old are your kids, speaking of kids?

Erica Duecy (04:58.33)
Yeah, so I've got one kid in high school and one kid in fourth grade, which is like hard to believe. It goes very fast. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (05:05.002)
Yeah. My nephews are about to be in high school, they get really big. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (05:10.29)
Yeah, I know. It was a busy time, a busy time. think like sports and afterschool activities and like, you know, and suddenly there's like boys and like, you know, like all of these new sort of interpersonal things to deal with. Like, you know, you hit that as soon as you hit 13 with any of those kids, it's like, wow, we are in a whole new world. Fresh challenges.

Jessie Ott (05:36.032)
Yes. Yes. Yes. So you have boys or girls or two girls. Okay. That's kind of what I figured.

Erica Duecy (05:39.986)
Two girls. Yeah, yeah. yeah. Yeah, I know. For some reason, I think like I just I'm suited to be a mom of girls. We're definitely like I definitely drill into them like the girl power. And I had gone I went to a girls high school and a women's college. And so yes, so the feminist angle is definitely strong in our house. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (06:06.56)
Nice. I love it. That's great. Yes, female empowerment. I love it.

Erica Duecy (06:09.713)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (06:13.234)
Totally, totally, you gotta have it. You gotta have it, gotta do it, especially with the kids.

Jessie Ott (06:17.656)
So when did you know that you wanted to be a journalist?

Erica Duecy (06:20.658)
Yeah, I mean, so I actually did get to live abroad as well. So I lived in Indonesia and when I was in college, I was an anthropology major. So when I was in college, I got a grant from the Ford Foundation to go to Indonesia and study with sex workers living on the island of Java. So I did that and ended up

Jessie Ott (06:32.013)
Wow.

Erica Duecy (06:48.85)
you know, creating this really in depth report about sexual health and kind of perceptions of HIV risk. And it sort of spoke to like my dissertation, more or less like spoke to what are the challenges around HIV education, you know, and there was there was a lot of a lot of challenges on a lot of different levels. But I, you know, completed this big report, submitted it to the Ford Foundation, and then like,

That's it. It's like crickets, you know, like, I think that's what a lot of academic research is. You submit a report and like, does it actually lead to policy changes or anything actual happening in the world to improve things? So, at that point I said like, you know what, that was like not super gratifying as an outcome. And I think I should be a journalist because like, I do like the tools and techniques of.

Jessie Ott (07:27.905)
Right.

Erica Duecy (07:47.538)
anthropology research, which is interviewing and learning the language and kind of embedding with the people who you are studying with and trying to understand sort of the greater context of whatever the situation is that you're trying to essentially report on. I said, you know what, think journalism is actually what I should do. So then I...

came back to the states and eventually made my way to the Chicago area where I went to grad school for journalism.

Jessie Ott (08:22.392)
Wow, okay, so you pivoted right then and there and went right, dove right in.

Erica Duecy (08:26.832)
Yeah, definitely. Well, I did work in startups. I worked in music startups in San Francisco for like a minute before that, like a couple years, because that was really fun. And I was really, yeah, yeah. And I was very much into music and in San Francisco at the time, it was the burgeoning electronic music scene. yeah. So after graduation, I did like the San Francisco startup scene, then did the graduate school. I knew that was like where I was eventually going, but I mean,

Jessie Ott (08:36.152)
That would be really fun.

Erica Duecy (08:54.578)
you know, I graduated in 1998 from undergrad and at that time, like it was just booming. Like, you know, I signed up with a music startup and there was something like, you know, any referral that you send to us to also who is successfully hired will give you a $7,000 referral bonus. And I was like, oh.

Jessie Ott (09:20.558)
Wow!

Erica Duecy (09:23.074)
So I, know, in San Francisco, like got every single person I knew hired to that startup and then, and then like took some time off and applied to grad school. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (09:33.518)
Smart, very smart. So what happens after grad school?

Erica Duecy (09:42.586)
Yeah, after grad school, straight to New York. at that time, you know, I had done business journalism. I knew that that was something I was interested in, but I was really interested in restaurants and food trends. So I got a job at a trade publication in New York and was a food and restaurant trends reporter.

And so spend a couple of years just like really essentially like dining out for every single meal and reporting on it does actually surprisingly get old after a while. For the first couple of years, no, I was good. But after a while I was like, Oh my God, another seven course meal. But, but after that, you know, I, kind of like expanded my interest. So

Jessie Ott (10:08.654)
But that sucks!

It does. For sure. I don't want to eat out every day.

Erica Duecy (10:30.748)
First it was like food trends and restaurants, and then I went on to run the restaurants and hotels coverage for Fodder's Travel, which I don't know if you remember Fodder's Travel, but it was like the big travel guidebooks. And that was fantastic. so I got to oversee 500 destinations and all the food and restaurant and hotel reporters and all those places, and really helped to shape what that...

section of the book looked like as well as online. And that was really fun. And so like, as I was doing this, though, I also was becoming more interested in the drinks world. Because, you know, after you eat out so much, eventually become interested in like, what is what is this thing that is being paired with my meal? So I, you know, started to get into cocktails and started to get into wine and

Jessie Ott (11:01.102)
Very cool.

Jessie Ott (11:13.762)
Right.

Jessie Ott (11:19.359)
Hahaha!

Erica Duecy (11:25.85)
Of course, I think as most people in the drinks industry have found, once you start down the rabbit hole, you just keep going. So I did WSET certifications, started going down that road and I wrote a cocktail book and I became the wine editor for a magazine and just kind of moved through.

like my interests basically, like found what my passions were and just pursued them professionally sort of every step of the way.

Jessie Ott (11:57.304)
That's pretty cool. Not everybody can say they've done that.

Erica Duecy (12:00.33)
Yeah, I mean, I think I was very fortunate in the timing was great, you know, and so from there, I then went over to Savora Magazine and helped lead a relaunch of the website for them. And then from that point, continued on to Architectural Digest and Conde Nast and helped them really start to work on a millennial strategy for, you know, engaging an entire

Jessie Ott (12:02.647)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (12:29.964)
new demographic of consumers. Yeah, mean, yeah, totally. You know, it was, it was really an exciting time because, you know, kind of in my career of having helped helped, you know, publishing brands through relaunching their websites and like building recipe databases and re-envisioning, you know, what, original content producer teams would look like. you know, I was able to, you know,

Jessie Ott (12:32.194)
What was that like? A lot of research.

Jessie Ott (12:48.685)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (12:59.782)
win a lot of awards and create some pretty exciting content that I'm still very proud of. Like original video programs for Savoir and for Architectural Digest. And so I think what became really compelling to me was this kind of new world of digital content and being able to help create exciting projects.

Jessie Ott (13:05.772)
Yay! That's awesome!

Erica Duecy (13:27.706)
So I got to work with so many interesting people and hire photographers who would work in house and videographers who would work in house at these publications. And we would come up with whatever our wildest fantasies were of what we wanted to create and then go out and do it. at that time in the late 2010s, budgets were available for those sorts of things. And so we could like,

Jessie Ott (13:52.802)
Yep.

Erica Duecy (13:54.384)
go down to New Orleans and shoot a house tour at the Brennan's, know, like that type of stuff, you know, kind of like go on location to different places and, you know, create sort of like event, really cool event photography. And so it was like a really exciting time to work in publishing. And yeah, and at some point though, I just kind of, you know,

saw the writing on the wall, I think the last year that I worked at Conde Nast, they had lost like $150 million. And I was like, this is not sustainable. So I kind of knew the writing was on the wall for publishing and like, totally in teams were starting to get cut. And I was like, all right, you know what, there's got to be something better here. And so at that point, I had really

Jessie Ott (14:30.357)
Jessie Ott (14:38.702)
Things are changing and evolving.

Erica Duecy (14:50.608)
gotten so much into the drink side that I, you know, in doing the WSET certifications, I at this point knew a lot of people in the drinks industry and so many of them were like, there's just no good publication for us to read. And so I came up with this idea for a trade publication that would be actually interesting to read. And not like play for, you know, pay for play crappy content, but like,

Jessie Ott (15:18.499)
Right.

Erica Duecy (15:19.312)
actual original editorial. And there was nothing else like that at the time. So, you know, the things that existed were either pay for play or they were for the C-suite, like all the CEOs and CFOs, but there was nothing for like real working songs and, you know, and people who are like in the mid tier of importers and distributors and producers who are starting out, nothing.

And so I came up with this idea for a publication that would cater to the needs of these different audiences. And then I kind of went and looked to see who had gotten the most funding. So I literally went on Crunchbase and like looked to see which startup has gotten the most funding.

Jessie Ott (15:58.69)
Ha ha ha!

Erica Duecy (16:02.066)
And 750, which was a platform for, to service both importers and distributors, as well as on and off premise accounts through like, you know, instead of having to order through like telephones, you now could do it online through this platform. So I approached them and they loved the idea and they hired me to start this publication for them.

So I went on board with 750 and we created the publication. It was called 750 Daily. It still exists. so yeah, it was, so I ran that for some years and that was really exciting because I think, you know, it definitely, it grew quickly. It filled a niche in the industry that didn't exist. You know, we won like,

Jessie Ott (16:29.816)
That's awesome.

Erica Duecy (16:51.16)
dozens of business reporting awards. It was very high quality content. So that was like a really exciting project.

Jessie Ott (17:00.692)
Yeah, that's huge. I know 750 daily. remember, I don't remember the exact like timing where it just all of sudden appeared, but I do remember the content. I'm like, wow, this is actually really good. Yeah. It's really good content.

Erica Duecy (17:09.425)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (17:13.69)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I haven't been involved with that for a long time, but after that, I then went and I started consulting and that kind of, you know, leads us to where we are here today. which is, know, as I was running 750 daily, I saw a need for data and insights and there was not really any data and insights, that were.

available to people in the industry who are not working for like big portfolios, right? Because if you want Nielsen, you have to work for a company that can pay for you to have a seat to view, you know, Nielsen's all of its, all of its, you know, dashboards and reports. I knew that there was a need and like I kept on going to Drizly, which, now has been acquired by Uber, was acquired by Uber for a billion dollars. And then they

Jessie Ott (17:55.118)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (18:08.55)
took the functionality of Drizzly, which was online ordering of alcohol delivered to your door and then put it into Uber Eats. But at the time, I approached the chief marketing officer of Drizzly and I was like, hey, you guys have so many incredible data. You're sitting on a treasure trove of data. And what could you do with this? Well, I have some ideas. This basically could be turned into a publication.

where you then are catering both to your retailers who are part of your network, as well as to PR and media who really need this. And so they were like, okay, yes, we do need something like this. And so they hired me to build out that publication for them and start this service. It became BevAlkInsights.com. And so that kind of...

further fueled my excitement about data and insights because there just is not that much free data out there. You know, I mean, it is expensive to collect data. It is expensive to do like surveys and all that sort of stuff, which I now have found having commissioned my own surveys. So, but I think that's, you know, that kind of led me down the path of saying like, there is the need for like data and report data and insights reporting services. And

Jessie Ott (19:20.939)
Hahaha!

Erica Duecy (19:33.638)
That's kind of what I've become known for is I either will conduct research for associations or government bodies and then help them figure out how to interpret them or how to use those data and insights. So an example is I just finished up a project for the New Zealand government where they were interested in identifying in the US, are there overlooked cohorts of

audiences across the different generations that we could more effectively be marketing to. So I did a big research study for them and then developed up the psychographic personas and a marketing toolkit with messaging for like, how do you actually reach these audiences effectively? How do you market to these audiences effectively? like, that's an example of the type of consulting that I do now, where I'm really helping people and companies understand like,

Jessie Ott (20:17.574)
cool.

Erica Duecy (20:30.662)
what are the niches that we could or should be marketing to and how do we then go and do it? Another thing that I do is original generational research. So I did a survey about a year ago that was looking at millennials and Gen Zs and we interviewed 1,300 millennials and Gen Zs across all 50 states and asked them what

What are you drinking? Why are you drinking it? How did you find it? How did you decide to buy it? Like all of these sort of purchase driver questions. And then that turned into a 90 page report that was available for sale on researchandmarkets.com. And like that type of thing, I also do, I realize that it is expensive now that I've commissioned my own data. So that was available for, and it still is available, but it's, you know, for $2,000 for a report, like a 90 page report.

So yes, data is expensive to conduct, expensive to purchase, but I think, you know, having access to free data and especially for platforms like a Drizly or another client that I had was a union, a hospitality POS system that also had a treasure trove of data, like those types of platforms who would like to get coverage in the media or

Jessie Ott (21:32.238)
It is.

Erica Duecy (21:57.66)
cater to a certain clientele, that they really have a motivation to share their data. And so that, like when those things align, I think that's really wonderful because everyone in this industry wants to make data driven decisions, but it's just that the pricing can be prohibitive to getting access to that.

Jessie Ott (22:21.176)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. mean, that's one of the reasons why I started my company with Crossroad Solutions, you know, our data hub just because of that. You know, we cater to more of the small to medium sized businesses that can't afford the big guns, you know, the big guys that are just so expensive. mean, just getting syndicated data in itself is expensive. So yeah, a hundred percent. I didn't realize that that is so smart to angle the industry like that.

Erica Duecy (22:29.734)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (22:36.613)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (22:41.276)
Totally.

Jessie Ott (22:49.836)
What a great idea!

Erica Duecy (22:51.438)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's been, you know, it's been hugely successful. Like I remember for one of my clients, we during that whole, remember the whole Bud, Budweiser, Bud Light fiasco, like a year and a half ago. I mean, we were able to show after that fiasco by looking at their data, which they,

Jessie Ott (23:08.143)
huh.

Erica Duecy (23:16.114)
power the POS systems in a thousand on-premise venues like big bars and pubs, we were able to show like where their share was going. So before anyone else reported on it, we were able to say like, okay, it's actually going to Modelo and McLoBoltra and like all these places and like show where those shifts were happening.

And you know, the day that we were able to do that, was like New York Times, know, Washington Post, CNN, these incredible, you know, press hits that a lot of companies don't have access to. But like, by using the data that you have, you know, people oftentimes don't realize like that's a huge asset. And reporters everywhere are looking to access that type of data so it can really elevate

the level of a company if they have data and are willing to share it.

Jessie Ott (24:13.634)
I should have you on as an analyst. Maybe you can promote my platform for me. Yeah, I know. I think we could maybe work together on it too. It's really fun and it's really flexible. It's more about the education on the awareness level. It's not very deep.

Erica Duecy (24:15.826)
I love it. I actually love reading analyst reports.

Erica Duecy (24:25.618)
Yes, yes, we need to dive more into that.

Erica Duecy (24:32.945)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (24:43.65)
We're very, people aren't aware they need it yet. So I think it's gonna be a curve, but the more people like you that are out there talking to people about how important these insights are, the faster people are gonna pick up on it and hopefully, you know, wanna take a look at it at least, right?

Erica Duecy (24:56.785)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (25:04.56)
Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's one of the things, you know, on the business of drinks, the podcast. So, you know, I kind of talked a little bit about what the consultancy side is, like the consultancy services that I offer. I also do advising for brands. you know, oftentimes that's like helping them, you know, figure out who is like their target market and like, how do we market to those people effectively and how can we do that in a cost effective manner like that. So that's all that side of it.

But on the podcast side, you know, it's interesting because we also really leverage data. I mean, we take a pretty data-driven approach to the brands and the people that we bring on the podcast. Like oftentimes it'll be like an emerging category or subcategory or like, you know, something like that. But it's, it's like really like, we like to take this data-driven approach where it's like,

Jessie Ott (25:39.758)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (25:43.214)
You do.

Erica Duecy (25:57.702)
we're analyzing like the products and categories that are getting people excited. and they're starting to like move volume. And so, that's one of the things that I think is, is pretty exciting to track is like, it's not just about, you know, we have someone on because they seem like they're the great face of a brand or something, but it's like pretty strategically focused. like we're interviewing like innovators and icons in the industry who are.

really doing something different or notable. And so I think like that's of interest. Also, you know, on business of drinks, we take a very sort of agnostic approach of like, we cover wine, beer and spirits. We also cover RTDs, we cover THC and adaptogen drinks, we cover energy drinks, we cover like all of these different categories. Because I think one of the things that

I have found most fascinating is, you know, it's, think a lot of brands when they're thinking about what, you know, who should I be looking at at my competitive set or like who is making like in roads or doing something exciting, they're looking at like who is their direct competitor or like within, you know, the whiskey subcategory or something. But I think the bigger insights and the most exciting kind of developments can be found

by looking across categories, right? So if I'm a whiskey brand, I wanna see what like the THC guys are doing or what the energy guys are doing to like understand how are they engaging specific audiences that I'm trying to reach or like what's working right now. Like if a certain subcategory has like a huge amount of like volume change, like it says like, this is where we need to be paying attention, because it's either like the product or the marketing or like what part of it.

is really resonating with customers, meaning like retail or on-premise customers or consumers. So I think that's, that's, know, interesting as well. And, and, and I think, the, like, the last thing I'll say about the podcast is like, we are not fluff and puff. like, we, my God, no, no, no, no, no, bring on so many great people. Yeah. But, but I think, I think, you know, we're definitely looking for like,

Jessie Ott (27:52.902)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (28:11.15)
Are you saying I'm fluffing puff? Just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Erica Duecy (28:22.482)
proven insights.

Jessie Ott (28:23.692)
Yeah. Yeah. Your strategy is definitely more business. I mean, you're the business of drinks, whereas Thursday, Thursday is more about storytelling and talking about the human connection and people, which is, yeah, they're both great, just very different drivers, right?

Erica Duecy (28:36.284)
Totally, which is super important, super important.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. we actually, we require people to share like real numbers. Like that's, that's a prerequisite. Like we say, you can't come on the show unless you're willing to share numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like,

Jessie Ott (28:56.606)
I that. I figured you got them from somewhere else.

Erica Duecy (29:00.89)
No, no, no, no. Well, like in the rare occasion, but like for the most part, you know, at this point, now we're established enough that we just say like, look, we're looking for brass tacks strategies and tactics. And like that can't come with like the smoke and mirrors. Like you need to give us real numbers. Otherwise, how can other people in the drinks industry, like trust what you're saying? Like you could be totally BSing. Yeah. So like give us some actual numbers to help us understand what

Jessie Ott (29:13.612)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (29:23.17)
Right. Yeah, 100%.

Erica Duecy (29:29.828)
you're actually doing. And I have to say, like, you know, the founders that we've talked to have been incredibly generous. You know, we talked with, like, Bill Schufeld is one of my favorite guests of all time. He's the founder of Athletic Brewing. And he talked us through literally, like, the step by step of how he went from, like, total naysayers at, like, the first, like, you 5k, where he's, like, trying to, like, beg people to take these.

cans and people are like, yeah, no, near beer, no thanks, you know, to an $800 million company. Like we talked through like all of the stages and he was incredibly generous with like the pitfalls and challenges that he faced. And same with like Fawn Weaver, know, Fawn Weaver who founded Uncle Nearest. Speaking of storytellers, she is just incredible, but you know, she started this brand in 2017.

Jessie Ott (30:23.64)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (30:27.058)
Uh, and like turned it into the fastest growing whiskey brand of all time now valued at more than a billion dollars. So we were like, how did you go from 2016 being like, I read this article about uncle nearest in the New York times and that he actually was the mentor of Jack Daniels. And you turned that not from like just a book or like.

Jessie Ott (30:41.044)
Exactly.

Erica Duecy (30:52.562)
but into a brand that is the fastest growing whiskey of all time. that, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's an incredible story. It's an incredible story. And so I think, but I think that is what's interesting is like, what are people interested in? Yes, they want the numbers, but there has to be the good stories. So it's storytelling to your point is pretty essential.

Jessie Ott (30:57.058)
Yeah. And on a whim, just by 200 acres in Kentucky or Tennessee. It's an amazing story. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (31:16.118)
Yeah. Yeah, no, agreed. And I think that's also the success of brands these days too. mean, you know, we've talked about our consumers and how consumers are getting smarter and smarter. You know, they've never been smarter before, right? So they expect certain things from certain companies and brands. if they don't, if they get in trouble or if something comes out that they don't like,

Erica Duecy (31:24.796)
Totally.

Erica Duecy (31:32.541)
yeah. Totally.

Jessie Ott (31:43.96)
They're canceled. I mean, it's as simple as that. mean, they're very into principles of what they want out of a brand and leadership and then also the story, which I think is really important.

Erica Duecy (31:45.337)
yeah.

Erica Duecy (31:55.089)
Yeah.

Definitely. And it has to feel authentic. Right. I think like that's one of the key things is like, yeah, we are like beyond the fluff and puff part of part of media and like into the like what's real. Um, and that could be a story or it could be numbers or it could be what, but it's just, it really is like, I think things have gotten a lot more real and less PR, you know, like the PR focus is

Jessie Ott (32:00.173)
Yes.

Erica Duecy (32:24.528)
that when I was coming up in the journalism world, that was really everything. You went with like the party line and like that type of storytelling has just gone away. And now we are in the time of storytelling where it's like question everything. And like, if you, if there's a sense that it could be, you know, fake or, that it isn't fully authentic, like, you know, pay attention to those warning signs. so I think that's, you know, it's a whole new world of, of media and storytelling.

Jessie Ott (32:49.272)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (32:54.476)
Yeah. No, and you know, it's interesting too, when you think about our industry way before, you know, all these fancy frou-frou fun fruity stuff and THC and all that. But back, back in the day, it was wine, right? Wine was a hand sell. It was a story that you told. It still is. You know, I mean, that it's such a hard sell at such small margins compared to spirits. And, and, you know, if you could really learn, I think a lot from

Erica Duecy (33:09.745)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (33:19.826)
It really is. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (33:24.462)
from studying some of these wine brands that have used this storytelling to get out there from account to account and crossing over from being Italian wine, being in just Italian accounts to other accounts and all the things. It's not new, right? But it does kind of change with the generations on the importance. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (33:29.628)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (33:42.328)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (33:48.906)
Definitely. Yeah. And I think, you know, brands have to work harder than they've ever worked. Right. Because like the with people drinking less, but potentially better. I think that I, you know, there needs to be more opportunities to sell to a broader range of people.

so, you know, I was just, doing some research for a client and, and, and also just heard, Shila Salmon, who is, at Jackson family. And she does all of the overseas, all the brand marketing for La Crema. So are you familiar with La Crema? The Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, very variety. Yeah, exactly. You know, well priced, super accessible.

Jessie Ott (34:31.43)
huh, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah, I drink them.

Jessie Ott (34:38.348)
Yes.

Erica Duecy (34:39.44)
You know, I was just looking across all of their channels, like all their marketing and social media channels and saw Shaila talk in a conference and she was talking about how one of their most like successful activations of all time is taking this mobile tasting room to meet audiences where they're at.

So like all of these different pride parades around the U S all of these different sports events around the U S you know, a lot of cultural events around the U S like taking a like mobile trailer to these places where there are audiences who maybe are never going to go to Napa or Sonoma to like visit those wineries, but they might be interested in like trying some free wine. And like, then when they see that brand on the shelf at the grocery store,

Jessie Ott (35:18.616)
Right.

Erica Duecy (35:29.072)
then they're more likely to pick it up because they have a wonderful association with having been at like the head of the Charles Regatta in Boston and, you know, like remembered drinking this, you know, glass of wine in a convivial sort of setting. So I think like that type of thing, like in the research she presented, she was able to show like the lift of a huge percent of their consumers over the past year were new to the brand.

but not only new to the brand, new to wine, new to the wine category. like those types of activations of like meeting customers where they're at in a diversity of non-traditional settings is I think the future of wine. Like that type of thing is where the outreach needs to be. And look, not everyone has the budget of a La Crema, but like,

Jessie Ott (36:01.122)
Mmm.

Jessie Ott (36:07.48)
where they're at.

Erica Duecy (36:24.58)
in like, think like using that example as inspiration of, hey, how can we reach out in places like literal location to demographics or audiences that we don't typically market to? And like, how can we become involved in our community in a new way? Like those types of things are what is going to help wine brands because as we know, like just looking at Nielsen's data from 2024,

wine was hit the most hit the worst of all the Bevelke categories from both a volume and value perspective. So wine is having some challenges and like reaching out to new audiences and doing it effectively is like, that's got to be like the most important thing on most wine brands mind right now.

Jessie Ott (37:11.436)
Yeah, what's the crossover if they don't want a full bottle of wine and they, know, the other thing too, to think about is the environmental concern on all these bottles too. I mean, not that spirit bottles aren't thrown away and all supposedly recycled or whatever, but I mean, you can drink a bottle pretty easily in a, you know, one setting with two people. It's not that difficult or at a dinner or whatever.

Erica Duecy (37:21.969)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (37:27.599)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (37:37.691)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (37:37.912)
You know, I think that environmental concerns, I think it's getting better from what I've heard and understood, but that generation, they're going to have to figure out what that bridge is.

Erica Duecy (37:47.206)
Totally, it's a great point because, know, like in the survey that I did of the 1300 millennials in Gen Z's, single serve format was a huge area of interest and purchase. So when I asked people like, you know, how good of a value is wine? Wine ranked very low as a good value product, but it makes sense because

What are affordable luxuries? Well, an affordable luxury might be a four to $10 can or bottle RTD, right? Or like a Starbucks drink, but a $30 bottle of wine, like maybe not so much. and how do you convince that person? Like, hey, invest like, you know, invest 20 or more dollars in a bottle that you're not sure if you're gonna like.

Jessie Ott (38:18.701)
Great.

Erica Duecy (38:43.088)
because there's no way to try it in advance. So I think that's a bit of a demographic shift that we see in purchase drivers and interests is the format challenge. So I think wine brands who are able to onboard younger audiences with single serve formats, those are the ones who are going to see a benefit in the long run because yes, the margin might be lower on that thing or it might be

logistically challenging, but it's probably one of the best ways for brands to, you know, for like brands to try all their products. because, know, otherwise it's a hard sell. I know it's so. Exactly. I mean, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, absolutely. You know, I think that's, that's the biggest challenge here is like, how do you, how do you affordably trial your products for consumers? If you're.

Jessie Ott (39:18.552)
trial.

Jessie Ott (39:25.878)
It has to be cheaper than giving it away for free. Right?

Jessie Ott (39:39.565)
Right.

Erica Duecy (39:41.356)
unwilling to shift to a smaller format, at least for a portion of your production.

Jessie Ott (39:46.38)
And when you see, and I haven't been out in the market in a long time, you see like if La Crema per se, or some of these other bigger brands would take advantage of that small format and put them in cans, but nobody wants to do that. You know what I mean? Because the canned brands that you have are all startup brands for the most part, right? They're brands that aren't necessarily known out there already.

Erica Duecy (40:03.665)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (40:08.806)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (40:13.07)
You know, it's kind of like the keg business. Keg business in wine is so smart. If I had a winery, I'd be all over kegs in wine because they're great value at a restaurant where you can get it for under $10, which is a great wine, right? Versus like 14 for something okay now, because that's how expensive it is.

Erica Duecy (40:17.702)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (40:21.807)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (40:26.81)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (40:32.934)
Totally, yeah.

Erica Duecy (40:40.326)
Definitely, Yeah, and I see also the bag and box wines are taking advantage of that positioning as well because you can have just one glass, right? I think that's the thing is like with a bag and box, you can have one glass and then you can come back three weeks later and have more glasses, but the thing is not kicked. that's being able to offer people

you know, product sizes and formats that fit with their lifestyle is starting to become expected. And so the brands were able to adapt to that in a variety of ways. you know, mean, Bag and Box also speaks to the concerns around glass weight and, you know, the carbon footprint there. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (41:27.756)
Yep. They're great for parties and they don't, they last six months, I think. So it's a great, and they're not expensive, 20, 30 bucks. mean, for three bottles of wine, I think they, they are the, so yeah.

Erica Duecy (41:37.702)
Right. They're a huge value.

Yeah, definitely. Generally, like, you know, and some of them even go up to like 70 or 80. But hey, it's high quality wine in there. You know, I like the yeah, the Tobless Creek rosé in a box, like I'm willing to spend, know, like however much that costs, because that is super high quality wine, and it's going to last for much of the summer. No question that they like keep selling out of that, you know, it's like it fills a need.

Jessie Ott (41:48.994)
Yeah, and it lasts!

Jessie Ott (42:03.148)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (42:09.101)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (42:09.194)
and, and there's just, you know, in, in my age set, I'm gen X and in the gen X age set, but I also know like, aren't my millennial friends, like, it's just that waste of having to pour half the bottle down the drain because you didn't want to drink that much. Like that is really a problem. so I think like any way that brands can overcome that, is really helpful to their longevity.

Jessie Ott (42:29.475)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (42:36.802)
Yeah, they're going to have to be more flexible. It's not just an email list anymore.

Erica Duecy (42:38.78)
Totally.

Yeah, it's a lot more, it's a lot more challenging. I mean, think, you know, brands really have to think about how, you know, how is it that we engage in the marketplace? You know, in a couple of weeks, I'm speaking with Ali Wenti from Wenti Vineyards at the Direct Consumer Symposium in Monterey. And we're bringing like a masterclass to the table, which is really exciting. Basically, you know, I think it was what three or four years ago, they had the

most of their consumers coming to the winery and on their wine club list were baby boomers. And in just that short amount of time, they were able to completely flip the script so that now their number one audience is millennials. So yeah, so how, like, how did they do that? Well, it was a total overhaul. You we talked about it on our, on the Business of Drinks podcast. We have an episode about Ali Wenti.

Jessie Ott (43:28.994)
Nice.

How did they do that? Yeah.

Erica Duecy (43:39.288)
and how she did it, she really led the charge. But a lot of it had to do with marketing and social media, as well as some overhauls at the winery. So for example, they really focused on ramping up their programming in a more casual way. So it used to be like,

for the music events that they did, it would be like a $300 ticket for a formal event with a sit down dinner. Now it's like a $50 ticket, bring your picnic, come as you are, and they do all these events throughout most of the seasons. And then they also made a much more casual format for their tasting lounge. They completely switched up their social media.

Jessie Ott (44:12.025)
Yeah

Erica Duecy (44:27.61)
So like the social media accounts used to look very staged and definitely focused on like vineyards and bottle shots. And like so much of the kind of advising that I help brands with is like, you just can't do that anymore. It needs to feel real and authentic and tell actual stories. So you go to their, Wente's Instagram and TikTok and all of its channels now, and you see.

Jessie Ott (44:44.366)
Yep.

Erica Duecy (44:52.496)
the girls who work at, know, who are the fifth generation leaders of that company who are like in their thirties and forties and have real families doing like day in the life videos of themselves, like with their kids and like at the vineyard giving like a vintage report and, you know, pouring wine and like making cocktails with friends, like wine cocktails with friends. Like, you know, it seems like, how many wine brands do we know that would be like, yeah.

that's totally fine. Make some cocktails with our wine, right? But like that's what younger audiences want. And so exactly like, so all of these types of examples are just, it's like, it's not so, so hard. And it also doesn't have to be super expensive. It's just more of a shift in mindset and then in content strategy to get to a place where your

Jessie Ott (45:22.636)
Right. Yeah. That's what they want. Versatility.

Jessie Ott (45:37.591)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (45:47.842)
social media channels, where you're online marketing, where all of this feels like much more aligned with the interests and needs states of younger consumers.

Jessie Ott (45:56.706)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Yeah, that's really, really interesting. So do you have any mentors that you want to mention along the way that were significant in any part of it?

Erica Duecy (46:08.924)
So I wish that I did and that is part of why I am on the board of an organization called Batonage, which is an organization dedicated to mentoring women in wine. coming up in publishing and then later in wine and spirits, I really didn't have a mentor at all. And...

I thought like that was, it was just really, I think it has to do with a generational divide. So a lot of the female bosses that I had coming up were of the mentality of push down the people behind me because I had to claw my way to the top. And when I got to the position where I was starting to be a manager, I was like, this ends with me.

I am going to be actively involved in the next generation of helping to raise up women leaders. And so, you know, I've been part of the board of Batonage for a couple of years now, and we help connect young women or people who identify as women with mentors throughout the wine industry. It could be sales, marketing, distribution, import, production, what have you, media.

Jessie Ott (46:59.79)
Great.

Erica Duecy (47:27.416)
So that organization is fantastic for anyone who's listening or watching. can reach out to me directly or go to the Batch Nage website and we hold events, regular events across the country and are continually networking with people who are up and coming in the industry and finding ways to help connect them.

both with jobs and with people who can help them further their careers. And that's just such a needed part of this industry. And I know that there are many organizations now that are helping to mentor people of color, helping to mentor women and others. And I do see that it's starting to get some traction.

Jessie Ott (47:59.672)
That's great.

Erica Duecy (48:21.266)
At this point, Batonage has been around for, gosh, almost 10 years, and we have connected, made more than 2,300 mentor connections. I know, which is a huge amount of mentees and mentors being connected across all of the three tiers. So...

Jessie Ott (48:28.438)
wow.

Jessie Ott (48:36.184)
That's amazing!

Yeah.

Erica Duecy (48:46.322)
I think that's a hugely important thing is like, if you are in a leadership position in an industry, pay it back because like that is going to help, you know, the people coming up in making it a better place to work for everyone.

Jessie Ott (49:07.15)
Yeah, no, I, you know, we, hold on, stop. Okay. When I think about mentors and this question, cause I've been doing it, this is my third year now. A lot of women don't have mentors. It's very unusual for women to have multiple mentors. I mean, it does happen, but most, I think most of the time, or maybe 70 % of the time,

They may have one or two, unless, you know, it's an unusual case and someone has, you know, several that have helped them along the way. But men have several. And I think the generation before us was even more so than it is, you know. You see somebody that's got something special and you invest in them, you know.

Erica Duecy (49:45.18)
Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (49:51.44)
Mmm, yeah, probably.

Erica Duecy (50:00.784)
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, and I think it's just really incumbent upon all of us in the drinks industry because hey, look, consumer perception right now of Bev Alk in particular is having some challenges with all the concerns around health and, you know, even like the Surgeon General warning and like all of these things are conspiring to

I think dissuade potentially new talent from coming into the industry. But I don't think that like that necessarily is a reflection. I think we are in a particularly heated moment, but look, alcohol has been around for 5,000 years. I don't think it's going anywhere. Like the way we consume alcohol might change somewhat. We may have more of a moderation focus. Like that is what we're seeing at this moment.

Jessie Ott (50:45.102)
No!

Erica Duecy (50:53.254)
but I don't think that it is going to go away completely. And I don't think that we need to run for the hills and people who are interested in the drinks industry need to like find new things to do with their careers because that's just not the case. Like I do think that all parts of the industry are going to continue to thrive. And look, look at the big portfolios. They're smart. They have access to the best data in the world and they're not.

Jessie Ott (51:06.989)
Right.

Erica Duecy (51:19.94)
freaking out and divesting like all of their alcohol brands. No, like they're being smart and diversifying into non-alcoholic and low-alcoholic and energy drinks and other types of beverages. Beverages are not going anywhere. Like what's in them and the percentages of alcohol in them may shift, but that's, you know, that that's to be expected. Like we are a country that is, you know, has

Jessie Ott (51:39.0)
Hahaha!

Erica Duecy (51:48.882)
I definitely a lot of interest in trying new things, especially younger generations are very flavor focused and have an eye for novelty. mean, look, you go into, you know, into Starbucks and you look at those menus and every time you walk in there, there's like 10 new things, right? Like Starbucks knows that younger people in particular really love novelty and they love new flavors. And so, you know,

I think a lot of portfolios are being very smart in realizing we have to diversify quite broadly. And so there's going to continue to be a lot of jobs, a lot of interesting jobs, and they may just have a slight different focus than they did before.

Jessie Ott (52:36.226)
Yeah, no, hundred percent. We went in and got boba tea the other day. Again, mean, tons of flavors.

Erica Duecy (52:41.842)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (52:46.716)
Totally, and customization, think that's one of the big things. I mean, exactly, exactly. Yeah, totally, totally. I think that customization, I think we're gonna see more more interest in customizing drinks. I was talking a recent episode of Business of Drinks, we had Caroline Lam, who is our Gen Z representative.

Jessie Ott (52:49.314)
Yes. Tapioca pearls. Well, you want, you know, ice cream on top or creme brulee or.

Erica Duecy (53:14.866)
And she was talking about, know, right now she is having a lot of fun making drinks with like THC tinctures and like all these different sort of flavoring ingredients. And that idea of customization is something that's really exciting for her and something she's become like more and more interested in. And it really got me thinking about, you know, you hear those, you know, among younger consumers, like you think about like their consumer

experiences and they can customize almost everything at every drive through at every coffee shop, you know, and like, I think that experience of, of customization and the desire to customize based on like your own particular interests, like that is something that we're going to see continuing to grow. like, wouldn't be surprised seeing like some like, you know,

like definitely kits of all sorts of different flavorings. can like add to things as, as a, an area of growth for, you know, like throw on, you know, 10 bitters onto my shopping cart and like, let's call it a day. Like there's a million ways to customize your drinks and like that trend of doing it is just like something that I see continuing on and on customization is definitely a trend. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (54:13.198)
That's amazing.

Jessie Ott (54:33.602)
That would be really fun because I'd like to get my own customized drink.

Erica Duecy (54:37.99)
Yeah, it is fun, right? Like I love customizing things, but I think especially younger people. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (54:41.964)
Yeah. And I love this adaptogen tincture, you know, get a little lift in the afternoon kind of thing and feel good.

Erica Duecy (54:48.882)
Exactly. I know. And functional. That's, that's, yes, exactly. You mentioned functional, functional, like that adaptogen, Lyft or calming or whatever vibe it is that you're looking for. Like I think marketing vibe is another thing that I see happening a lot of the brands that are doing really well in CPG. Like I'm thinking of like, kinuephorics and recess and all of those types of adaptogen drinks. They don't market like.

Jessie Ott (55:13.23)
Yep.

Erica Duecy (55:17.616)
by flavor as much as they market by vibe. So I'm looking for calming or energizing or relaxing, right? And like it helps if it is like, you know, flavored strawberry dragon fruit. But like the vibe is like the key selling point for it. And I think that's something that, you know, we'll continue to see as well, like marketing by functional ingredients for sure.

Jessie Ott (55:29.791)
Hahaha!

Jessie Ott (55:42.926)
Yeah, I still want this customized drink, Erica. You may have to open up a flavor factory. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (55:46.482)
I know. I mean, like there should be a bar that is basically like a boba shop, right? It's like essentially the boba shop model, but making a bar. I know, I know. I feel like we should go in on this.

Jessie Ott (55:59.278)
I like this idea very much. Yeah, we need to find one. I need to go to like get out and find one because it sounds really fun. I, know, I'll sometimes just throw out bottles that I have, you know, and like the different mixes and bitters and all the things and I'll just stare at it and I'll go, I don't know what to do with it.

Erica Duecy (56:08.632)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Jessie Ott (56:25.868)
Like I'm just a terrible bartender. If I have the exact recipe, I can do it, but I'm not, I get so lost behind like trying to, should I try this? Should I try this? And when I start getting into it and going, it's fun, but like, it's pretty overwhelming to try to figure that out. It's not my skill set.

Erica Duecy (56:26.01)
Yeah, yeah.

Erica Duecy (56:35.11)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (56:44.58)
Yeah, I know I sense an opportunity here. I think there's a market niche waiting to be filled.

Jessie Ott (56:51.086)
What about any resources? Do you have any resources that you've used throughout your career that you'd want to throw out there or anything from, you know, groups that you've joined or anything like that that has been helpful?

Erica Duecy (57:07.002)
Yeah, definitely. mean, I, there are, so if you're a member of the media, definitely you can have access fairly easily to, like Nielsen and Serkana data and IWSR and like all of these different data sources. If you don't have media access to, get some of these reports, I would say like really keep an eye on the trade publications to understand what's being reported. I think.

know, Park Street University is a free newsletter and that's a good place to stay abreast of what's happening in the trend space. Wine Market Council, you know, a lot of these publications, they do press releases and also kind of synopses of their research findings that will be put on like Wine Industry Advisor or different sort of information hubs.

And I think like finding that and, you know, staying on top of that information, just to understand what the macro trends are that are happening in the drinks industry is pretty significant because it's just so easy to get caught up in the sort of like, you know, like the thrum of everyone's talking about the sky falling, everyone's talking about sky falling, but like, that's not like the actual, that's not what the markets are doing, you know?

Jessie Ott (58:27.086)
Yes.

Erica Duecy (58:32.57)
Like there's a counter narrative, like what is the counter narrative? What does the data say? So I think always having a couple reliable data sources is smart. also, Tom Wark, is, he runs the National Association of Wine Retailers and also does some work with Free the Grapes, which is a DTC organization.

has something on Substack, his fermentation blog. I love this blog. He is one of those very data driven insights people who often provides the counter narrative that is needed to balance out any argument. So I definitely recommend following Tom Warke for listeners who are not yet familiar with him.

Jessie Ott (59:17.902)
Interesting.

Jessie Ott (59:23.16)
Okay.

Erica Duecy (59:27.634)
And then lastly, I'd say, you know, for anyone who's looking to level up in the drinks industry, and we're really mostly focused on wine, but Bâtonnage is a fantastic organization to become involved with. They are, you know, all of us on the board. mean, everyone in the organization is really working to help make those connections that will

change careers. So I think that's a big one. Lastly, because of the advising that I do, I also partner with SWIG partners and that is a import and distribution matchmaker for brands. So it could be established brands or it could be a new or emerging brand that's just either starting up or coming to the United States.

And Swig has a 79 % placement rate for getting the brands it represents partnered with distributors and getting that first PO within six months, which is an astounding, astounding stat because I think if any, know, as I talked to so many brands who were out there trying to do blind outreach and

Jessie Ott (01:00:37.07)
Wow, that's great.

Erica Duecy (01:00:49.478)
get in front of distributors and just find that their emails are never returned. It's impossible to connect with anyone. So if anyone wants to learn more about SWIG partners, they can reach out to me directly.

Jessie Ott (01:01:05.422)
Okay. What about pain points? Is there any pain points that you're seeing from your perspective that you'd want to touch on?

Erica Duecy (01:01:13.71)
Yeah. mean, I think, you know, there are a lot of pain points for Bevalk as we've touched on a little bit. It's like, where should we start? No, think the biggest challenge I see is, I mean, there's, there, there are a lot. You know, I think one, one place where it's good to start is to recognize that.

Jessie Ott (01:01:18.956)
There is, I know, like how do you... Yeah...

Erica Duecy (01:01:41.554)
you know, younger audiences do have different consumption behaviors than their predecessors. And they may or may not age into the same behaviors as like those who came before them. Like I think, you know, of Gen Z in particular, and I wonder, you know, okay, the oldest Gen Z is around 28 years old right now. This new demographic, new audience is not...

necessarily aging into the same alcohol consumption behaviors as those who came 10 years prior. What does that mean? Well, I think it's just, it's part of an evolution. Like the different intoxicants that were available 10 years ago are different than today. Today we have THC, we have people experimenting with all sorts of different types of intoxicants. that consumption level,

may not get back up to the same levels as predecessor generations. So if that's the case, then what do you do? Will you adapt? Right? So you evolve and you meet younger consumers where they're at. There are products and services and, you know, brands still yet to be created that are going to be effective at figuring out, you know, what is it that Gen Z wants?

one brand that I am really excited about that we just featured on the business of drinks podcast is whiny baby. Do you know this brand? Okay. So whiny baby is a wine brand for Gen Z. and the, the founder of it, Jess Druey, she created the name whiny baby because she's like, Hey, this is for like people who are new to wine. And, and like people always like made fun of, know, like,

Jessie Ott (01:03:16.896)
No.

Jessie Ott (01:03:31.797)
you

Erica Duecy (01:03:35.954)
Gen Zs are just whiny babies. But she did a lot of really, you know, fun and interesting stuff. You look at the labels there and you look at the bottles, they're in white or clear bottles. So it's a red, a white and a rosé. these are in clear bottles, which we know for a variety of reasons, like is not the best way necessarily to store wine, because of like light strike and all of that. But

But hey, these are wines that are meant to be sipped, opened and sipped right away. They have a crown top with little conversation starters on it. They have labels that like peel off that you can like write down who you're with and like the little memory. It has like Lisa Frank sort of like nostalgic fun branding. The juice inside it, you know, it's marketed just as like a white blend or a rose or a red. It doesn't say the varietals. doesn't change, it doesn't confuse anyone.

Jessie Ott (01:04:12.214)
Nice!

Erica Duecy (01:04:33.264)
with what the varietals are. you know, and, there's also on some of the bottles that are either DTC or sold in certain retailers. There's also like really cute beads, like these colorful beads that are like a bracelet that says whiny baby on it. Right. So like, this is just like fun marketing, but like the product itself is actually like super delicious and like,

Jessie Ott (01:04:48.437)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:04:58.114)
enjoyable. It's like maybe it's like slightly sweet, but like something that you can just like totally drink a glass and be like, yeah, I'll have another. It's just, it's delicious. And you know, a good price point at 17.99. Like, you know, so Jess, who is herself Gen Z, she did a really smart thing. She partnered in a joint venture with McBride Sisters who also really get marketing to a younger and multicultural audience.

And, you know, she's having a huge amount of success. Last year, I think was the first year they were available in something like 27 states and this year they're set to double. They did 6,000 cases of production last year, this year set to double. like brands like that where they literally are like bringing something new to the market, you know, that type of innovation is I think what is going to add new energy

to something like wine. And Spirits also has a lot of innovation happening in that sector. So does beer, so does NA, so does THC. I think we're gonna see a lot of functional ingredients. We're going to see a lot of marketing by energy levels, marketing by vibe. So.

you know, relaxing, calming, energizing, what have you, you know, think all of these things are opportunities. Certainly with bed valq, you have to be careful about how you market functional ingredients, but, you know, given like regulations around that. But, I think we're going to start to see, that the lines between categories blur, blur, blur, as, know, people just don't really care what that, sort of base fermentable is anymore. They're drinking across categories, not just.

in a week, but like in a night, you know, I will go out now and I'll have a cocktail, then I'll have an NA cocktail, then I'll have a glass of wine, right? Like, you know, and then maybe I'll have an NA beer to finish off it. you know, so like all these different categories are just like the way we drink now. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:07:06.306)
Yeah, it really is. And it's fun.

Erica Duecy (01:07:09.818)
Yeah, it is fun. It is fun. It's totally fun. I mean, I love it. I love looking at a menu and no longer do I just look at the wines. I also look at the cocktails, the NA cocktails, the beer, you know, down the line. I'm like constantly looking to see like what's new and interesting that I might want to try and it's not just me like the drinks nerd. It's also pretty much everyone at my table.

Jessie Ott (01:07:31.372)
Yeah, yeah, it's become a thing and I'm so happy to see that the on-premise is really jumping in because it's really important that they do to support this movement.

Erica Duecy (01:07:40.337)
Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely, definitely. Yeah, so like to the question of, you know, what are the pain points or like, what do I kind of hope to see? I would say more non-alcoholic cocktail menus. So like even living in New York, I will say that the number of times that I order a non-alcoholic cocktail and it's just like juice or like.

three juices, right? And I'm like, yeah, it's not breakfast. Like I don't really want grapefruit juice plus pineapple juice plus orange juice. Like that's not a cocktail, right? So I think that the more sophisticated we can get, you know, restaurants and bars about like realizing you can charge full price like for a cocktail, right? There are like a huge range of ingredients that can be used that are not just like sugary.

juices, but like try some like, you know, infused syrups, try the NA spirits, try, you know, any of a number of different ingredients that are not, you know, teas, right? Like there's so many things you can do. And like, and like third, you can like also charge full price, you know, I mean, almost, I would say that the best NA cocktail lists that I see in Manhattan right now charge the same price.

Jessie Ott (01:08:58.434)
Right.

Erica Duecy (01:09:07.078)
for spirits or non-spirits because look, they're putting thought and effort into that cocktail and customers appreciate it and keep ordering it. So I think like realizing that this is a real opportunity and actually probably a good margin opportunity to provide a sophisticated cocktail without alcohol. So I think that is something that I think I would love to see more of in 2025.

Jessie Ott (01:09:36.674)
Yeah, I agree. I think also, some of these non-alcoholic spirits that they're making though are pretty expensive. And so for us to get that out there to get, until they can start getting the volume behind it to decrease the price, because I think a lot of consumers are thinking, it's non-alcoholic, great, it's going to be cheaper. And that's just not the case.

Erica Duecy (01:09:45.916)
True.

Erica Duecy (01:09:59.292)
Thank

Exactly, yeah, it's a great point. It's a great point. And I think there are ways to make it without the NA spirits, you know, by using bitters, by using teas and infusions and stuff like that. But look, I mean, it takes time and effort. you know, I think, exactly. So if we can get consumers to realize like, look, the best NA cocktails really do take as much time and effort, certainly, and potentially.

Jessie Ott (01:10:11.916)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:10:15.456)
It does. You got to figure it all that out.

Jessie Ott (01:10:25.602)
They do. Or more.

Erica Duecy (01:10:28.314)
the same cost if you're using an NA spirit or an NA wine, for example, and they really are, it's like an experience to go out and have one of these drinks. I mean, I love, like there's the Chelsea Hotel I love to go to, they do this incredible, like it's a liars based sort of gin, but they have all of these different green herbs and

Maybe there's some apple juice in there, but it's all these like fresh green herbs and it's like, has like this curry leaf on top. So it has a little bit of like sweet and savory, but honestly, it is one of the most sophisticated cocktails that I had in 2024. And you could not tell that it didn't have alcohol. I had it over and over, like every time I'd go to the Chelsea Hotel.

Jessie Ott (01:11:05.518)
Yum.

Erica Duecy (01:11:22.098)
It's delicious and it probably is like $18 a cocktail, but like, don't care. It was, it was so, so good. so, you know, it's just like, Hey, at this point we're, mean, in New York city, at least we're kind of used to paying $18 for that, like Boba or fancy coffee or like, you know, yeah, I think we, we are definitely used to, high prices here, but you know, I think market specific. So if you're in a lower priced market, whatever the

Jessie Ott (01:11:35.885)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:11:51.388)
kind of good to decent cocktails are in that market, price those NA cocktails accordingly.

Jessie Ott (01:11:58.83)
Yeah, one of my favorite cocktails last year was in Cozumel over Thanksgiving and it was a non-alcoholic drink and it was absolutely divine and delicious. loved it. It was wonderful. What about your outlook for 2025? Where are you at? I know we've talked a lot about this on the podcast, but...

Erica Duecy (01:12:06.859)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:12:16.882)
Yeah, definitely. you know, I think from a sales and markets perspective, it's going to be like flat or down this year. but you know, look, there's even opportunities within that, right? Like some brands will not survive. and that is sad, but like there are a huge, huge proliferation of brands. So the brands that

find ways to connect with audiences most effectively will be the ones that survive. And that can come in a variety of different forms. Some brands are having incredible DTC success. Some brands are really focused on on-premise. Others are focused on retail outlets or like chain retail.

So there's so many different ways to focus your efforts, but I think brands need to be very strategic about how they're spending their dollars. And it's not just marketing dollars, you know, it's like, it's the sales effort and the channel strategy and like every piece of, you know, managing the business fiscally responsible. Because I think that it's going to be in the short term.

probably harder to get funding as we've seen for the entire past year, probably 18 months. So tough to get more funding and the people who, or funds that do provide money for your business are going to want a very specific line item of how that money is set to be spent. So I think having a very clear understanding of your plan.

is going to be crucial now more than ever. It used to be a situation where you could say like, hey, we need like a couple million dollars to really blow out marketing for this brand. Those days were over. Maybe they'll come back, who knows? But at this point, just imagine that every dollar is going to have to be spoken for. And I, you

Erica Duecy (01:14:30.606)
And I will again say there are opportunities in the, which is, know, you may as a brand find yourself having to get into, into the black, into positive territory on a much quicker timeline than you originally anticipated. but I, know, is, is that so bad? You know, you may not have as much, to work with, but you know, there may be, strategies that you can find.

Certainly at Business of Drinks, we are talking to brands every day about what is working right now. And brands come to us all the time and say, hey, I'm having a challenge in this particular area. And we intentionally go out and try to find other brands or advisors or services that can provide an unlock for their businesses. So we'll either interview those people on the podcast or connect to them separately. But we're...

always trying to look for what is working right now and how can we help more brands get to profitability and more people in the industry, whether it's a, you know, import or distribution portfolio or a retailer or someone working in on-premise. Like, you know, I am always excited to hear from people in the industry about what's working, what's not working and where they see the opportunities because

Oftentimes the people who are actually on the floor and in those sales calls and reacting to sales data in real time, like they're the most informed about what is actually happening in the industry. So I do try to talk to as many people in the business as possible on a weekly basis to understand what's really happening out there. And I think that's something that will continue.

because you said like what's happening in the next six to 12 months, there have to be those strategic ways of working that some brands are finding. And if we can share those with other brands to help lift all boats, then I will feel we have done our job.

Jessie Ott (01:16:42.38)
Yeah, no, that's great. You're digging into innovation, which it seems like, you know, from talking, you know, from your early career, you've always kind of been into that trend space.

Erica Duecy (01:16:54.118)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I really am interested. I think it goes back to that, you know, bringing it full circle back to the anthropology at the beginning of my career. You know, people and the way they behave are fascinating. Like I have always found that to be fascinating. So it's pretty interesting to me that now I have circled around in my career to actually do this research where I ask people, you know, why are you drinking this thing? How did you find it? How did you decide to buy it? Like,

Jessie Ott (01:17:17.516)
Yeah!

Erica Duecy (01:17:23.888)
What else are you drinking? So those types of conversations and like just observing people around me trying to dine out with lots of different audiences of people and kind of like watch what everyone's doing. That's a delicious form of research.

Jessie Ott (01:17:43.442)
Yeah, for sure. Well, come on down to Orlando. You can observe me.

Erica Duecy (01:17:49.554)
Anytime. I would love to know what's happening in Orlando. hear there's some good cocktail bars down there.

Jessie Ott (01:17:52.846)
Yeah, yeah, even some NA ones. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they were on my podcast the first year. I guess it's, I guess they don't have a spot anymore. So it was this really cool, this guy was kind of in a theater and so they had that decorded sort of Victorian style and everything in there was for sale.

Erica Duecy (01:17:58.455)
wow. Nice. I love that. Okay, well, we'll have to talk about that.

Jessie Ott (01:18:18.816)
And it was so busy at night that you had to make reservations and you could only stay a certain amount of time. I think it was. but it was, it's 500 square feet. was just this cute, really fun space where they had created these really fun cocktails and it was a retail store also. Yeah. So if you wanted to have a cocktail before dinner, you'd come and they'd kind of do a little show or, know, whatever. It was really fun. It was really interesting.

Erica Duecy (01:18:18.924)
wow.

Erica Duecy (01:18:37.329)
that's so cool. I love that. That's smart.

Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:18:48.754)
I love that.

Jessie Ott (01:18:49.42)
Yeah. And then there's the at hotel, which I haven't been to yet. And that is all non-alcoholic, spirits, like, they have a chef and they have really high end food and everything, but then they have no, no alcohol. Yeah. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:19:00.818)
wow. That's interesting. Yeah. All right. Well, places for me to add to my list. Nice.

Jessie Ott (01:19:08.63)
Yeah. So one last question, Erica, what do you like to do for fun or outside of work?

Erica Duecy (01:19:17.298)
Yeah, I am a huge traveler. Again, probably the anthropology tie, but I love traveling. I travel, you know, as much as I can. I was just in Rome with my kids and in France last month. And I think that's like, it really, goes back to that, just that interest in people and cultures and what's happening. Like I love to, you know, take tours in places and like, you know,

Jessie Ott (01:19:21.794)
Yep.

Erica Duecy (01:19:46.586)
and like, make dinner with people in whatever destination it is, or those sorts of immersive experiences and just kind of like talk to people about what are their neighborhoods like, what, you know, what's happening in their cities. So I think, you know, how I definitely have made a lot of friends from throughout the world, I would say. So it's like a great opportunity whenever I can get to a country and like reconnect with people and.

Jessie Ott (01:19:59.704)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:20:14.352)
talk to them about what's happening in their industries. And like, of course I always have to ask like, what are people drinking? What are people excited about? You know, all of that. so I think travel definitely is one of them. And then I also recently learned how to fly fish. it is hard. It is hard, but I have landed several trout at this time. yes. Thank you.

Jessie Ott (01:20:30.687)
that's fun. That's hard. It's fun.

Nice! Congratulations! That's fantastic!

Erica Duecy (01:20:40.432)
We do Captain Release, but there is a little trout stream up in the Catskill Mountains that we go to. And it's just like, it's so relaxing and meditative, but also like exciting because there's all sorts of wild stuff happening on the banks of a quiet river that you just like are not aware of until you're sitting there quietly and watching and suddenly like a mink darts out in front of you and like crosses the river. And you're like,

my God, what is happening? Like what is that creature? But it's like, it's fascinating that like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. You photo it. But it's like fascinating that there's this whole world that's just happening around us. And if we like take a moment to pause and like immerse ourselves in it, like it's surprising what we can see. And it's just, I really love it. And so, yeah, so that's something I've been getting great joy out of.

Jessie Ott (01:21:11.694)
Google! Google! Google Lens! What is that?

Jessie Ott (01:21:33.826)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:21:40.046)
So your recent travels to Italy and to France, do they have any bev cocktails like we do?

Erica Duecy (01:21:47.802)
I did have some NA cocktails, but it was more, I would say that at least where we were in France and Italy, not as robust. I probably wasn't also really looking for them, but there were a couple NA cocktails at the hotels that we were at. So I think it's, you know, it's definitely seems to be like kind of up and coming. There's a ton of NA beer that I saw over there.

But not, I didn't really see many NA wines. I know they exist, but I didn't really see them on restaurant menus. yeah, so I think, you know, it's very uneven. I would say with NA stuff, it's super uneven in this country, super uneven in Europe and like other parts of the world. Some places like Germany have a much more...

Jessie Ott (01:22:25.313)
Okay.

Erica Duecy (01:22:41.522)
robust sort of like long standing and a beer tradition. So some countries have like a huge array of NA beers, but yeah, uneven. I think that's, that's a goal for 2025. Let's see more NA across the board.

Jessie Ott (01:22:59.554)
Yeah, you know, and I'm, I eat a gluten-free lifestyle. And so when we went to Italy and I think it was 2019, I was shocked at all the gluten-free beers over there. You know, that aren't everywhere. I know. And they're just as good. Yeah. I miss Italy. I could eat anything over there. Nothing bothered me.

Erica Duecy (01:23:11.408)
Yeah, Gluten-free pasta's on menus. Like, I saw that, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Erica Duecy (01:23:22.265)
such a beautiful place.

Erica Duecy (01:23:27.684)
Yeah, I bet. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:23:29.516)
Yeah, but it's all ancient green, good stuff.

Erica Duecy (01:23:32.752)
Yeah, definitely different gluten content, fresher, fresher, less processed flowers and stuff. A lot, a lot different in the, in the flower situation there for sure. Yeah. So good.

Jessie Ott (01:23:44.046)
Yeah, for sure. I love that place. Yeah, so good. All right. Well, is there anything else that we haven't mentioned? One thing I'm thinking about your podcast, how often do you release a podcast?

Erica Duecy (01:24:01.68)
Yeah. So business of drinks is weekly now. We release a podcast every week. And so we have a main person that we interview, usually innovator or icon in the industry in some way, who's doing something very notable. And then we have a last call, which is basically like our short at the end of it, where we're talking either about like brands that we're interested in trying or that we have tried that we're interested in like talking about for some reason. And

we talk about, know, we have some PSAs today, we were doing a PSA for distributors. So we were saying like, look, it's January and February. January and February is the time if you are a brand that you need to be reaching out to distributors, because that's when they're looking at what are the gaps in my portfolio? Where is there perhaps a pricing gap that we could fill? Is there an emerging category we're not part of? Like they're looking at all of these.

portfolio performance sort of issues and like, how can we optimize for the year ahead? So we recorded like a fun little PSA that is basically like, Hey brands reach out to distributors. Now is the time. If you want to get with a new distributor and like increase your market share in 2025, do it now. So, you know, we have all sorts of conversations, like little shorts that we do.

Jessie Ott (01:25:22.254)
Those are fun. I like those. Yeah. It's, they're fun. I like it. Yeah. It's a good format. And I guess it's business of drinks.com if they want to get in touch with you.

Erica Duecy (01:25:29.499)
Yeah, thanks.

Erica Duecy (01:25:37.53)
Yeah, definitely. People who have questions or want to reach out directly, it's podcast at businessofdrinks.com. And you can also just reach out to me on LinkedIn. I do make a very strong effort to respond to every message. So please reach out to me, whether you're a brand or someone in the industry, however I can help, I will definitely try to connect to you. If I can't help myself, I will try to connect you with people who can.

Jessie Ott (01:26:05.388)
Nice. Excellent. All right. Well, Eric, this has been really fun. love all your insight. I could sit here and talk to you about it another hour. but we're already coming up here, I think about on an hour and a half, but, but, we'll have to do this again. And, and, know, I've thought through our, conversation, I think we'll do a quarterly review. So they haven't heard the end of us together with the other ladies. I think that'll be really fun.

Erica Duecy (01:26:29.883)
Nice.

Jessie Ott (01:26:33.194)
And we'll do it towards the end of the quarter. Then that way I can get it ready and release it for the beginning of the next quarter so that it's not so delayed. But I think that'll be a lot of fun. think the five of us got along really, really well. So there's some fun stuff to look forward to.

Erica Duecy (01:26:47.826)
Awesome. Lots to look forward to in 2025. Don't let the headline scare you. There is a way forward for so many companies in this industry and we will all find success together.

Jessie Ott (01:27:01.1)
Yes, we will. I agreed. 100%. Kumbaya. We'll sing Kumbaya and hold on to hands. We'll get through it. Yes, okay. Peace out. I do say that a lot. Alrighty. Well, thank you. And I'm going to wave goodbye and we'll see you soon.

Erica Duecy (01:27:05.06)
Goomba-yah!

Peace out.

Erica Duecy (01:27:24.07)
Bye, thanks so much, Jessie, for having me on.

Jessie Ott (01:27:26.424)
Thank you. All right. Bye bye.