Special Edition Round Table Discussion 2024 Review! Part 2:

📢I talk🎙️with Julie Milroy, Erica Duecy, Caitlyn LuBell and Katharine Jerkens about the Beverage Industry Recap of 2024 in Part 2! We discuss 2024 Surprises and Outlook for 2025 in Part 2.  👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂  😁

📽️ Watch on YouTube! 🎞️ https://youtu.be/UmlhEfTYOTU

Beer Distribution is Evolving

1. Beer Distributors moving into Wine, Spirits, RTD's & Sake Sales
2. Younger Consumers the base doesn't matter: Liquor, Malt, Wine
3. Moved past the Post Base world in 2024
   • Consumers are not beer, wine or liquor drinker (RTD's) drove that
4. RTD's Taking share from beer, #1 RTD is Gallo's High Noon
5. Sake - It is closer to beer than wine as it's brewed. 
6. Beer & RTD worlds continue to merge

Surprises of 2024

1. Companies Hiring Managers need to be open-minded and innovative about hiring
   • They say the #1 most important thing is people but have no hiring process
2. Marketing Opportunity for High Net-Worth Women
3. Wine RTD's Growing into 2030
4. How surprised we were no real forecasting in 2024 or into 2025
5. Alcohol companies haven't hit the mark in advertising to women
6. E-commerce only just a few years before COVID-19, and lots of growth
7. Compliance rules to know on DTC is challenging still figuring it out
8. Getting companies and brands into the Digital Game
9. 30% of the Marketing Budget should be on digital
10. Quick rise in CBD and THC's

Summary 

We discussed a shift towards alternative distribution models, particularly the growing influence of ready-to-drink (RTD) products. We emphasized the need for realistic expectations and strategic planning in order to succeed in a competitive market. 

We also discuss the importance of hiring practices, the potential of targeting high-net-worth women, and the necessity of digital transformation in the industry. 

We emphasize the need for experiential marketing to engage consumers and the surprising insights gained from their experiences in the field. The conversation explores the evolving landscape of the beverage industry, focusing on emerging trends in e-commerce, the rise of non-alcoholic and functional beverages, and the impact of economic challenges. 

In 2025, we emphasize the importance of health and wellness in consumer choices and the need for brands to adapt to changing market dynamics. Additionally, we highlight the empowerment of women in the industry and the collaborative efforts to support each other in navigating these changes.

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!! Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 1:20 Intro to Panelists
• 4:15 2024 Review
• 4:42 Changing Role of Beer Distributors
• 8:53 Beer & RTD Worlds Merge
• 9:42 Sake
• 15:22 Foley & other Wine Suppliers getting into Spirits
• 20:46 Surprises of 2024
• 25:20 Opportunity Market High Net Worth Women
• 27:50 Digital Opportuntiy
• 35:47 Learn E-COM Tricks to Increase Online Sales Velocity - Elite Commerce Group
• 40:40 Low & No, THC & CBD Exponential Growth!
• 43:02 Summarizing 2024 in One Word
• 46:02 2025 Outlook
• 59:30 Produced by Fedora J Productions

Transcript

Jessie Ott (00:00.991)
Hello everybody and welcome to Thursday Thursdays. am Jessie and I have a special panel this year and I can't wait to introduce you all or have you actually introduce yourselves to all of us. And I don't believe we know each other as a group until now. And so that's pretty exciting to get different people from different parts of the industry together to talk about, you know, an industry we're passionate about and love and

and see it transition beyond, I think, what I ever thought we would be. Just to be honest, there's some surprises for me for 2024. so with that, I'm going to turn it over to Julie. Julie, would you like to introduce yourself?

Julie Milroy (00:44.548)
Hi everybody. My name is Julie Milroy. I am a global wine and spirits US distribution strategist, formerly with Southern Glazer's Wine and Spirits. I was an executive there for 15 years. And now I am in transition, but also working on my consultant agency, JM Advisory.

Jessie Ott (01:13.247)
Okay, Caitlyn.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:15.248)
So, Caitlyn Loubell, I'm in New York. am one of the founders of Booze Biz, which is a recruiting agency for the booze industry. So we focus throughout the US, all types of roles, and we're kind of the matchmaker for candidates, jobs, great clients, filling great roles. And our whole team is all from the industry. So we all have industry backgrounds.

Kate Jerkens (01:48.04)
good morning everyone. I'm Kate Jerkins. I'm the Chief Business Officer for Uncle Nearest Premium Whiskey. And I just celebrated my eight year anniversary. I actually was the first employee to come on with Fawn, our founder. And this was actually my first foray into the spirits world. And boy, did I choose a time.

Jessie Ott (01:56.841)
Yay!

Caitlyn LuBell (02:07.114)
Yeah. Really.

Jessie Ott (02:09.269)
man.

Kate Jerkens (02:10.12)
Nice to meet everyone.

Jessie Ott (02:13.823)
Definitely. Yeah, I can't wait, Kate. can't wait to hear more. Erica.

Erica Duecy (02:19.455)
Yeah, Erica Ducey. I have to say, Kate, we just had Fawn Weaver, everyone knows from Uncle Nearest on the Business of Drinks podcast, which I run. And so far it's one of our most listened to episodes of all time because this company is just making waves. So a little bit about me, I've been leading teams in content, data, tech, both drink side and non for about the last 20 years.

Kate Jerkens (02:28.799)
right.

Jessie Ott (02:35.989)
Amazing.

Erica Duecy (02:47.775)
So I've held director level roles at big publishing brands like Architectural Digest and Saveur Magazine, and then Editor-in Chief in chief and chief content officer roles for drinks publications and platforms on both the trade and consumer side. So Seven Fifty Daily, PICS, Vine Pair. And in the past few years, I've been working as a strategic consultant.

building both marketing and data and insights programs for companies like Drizly, Union. I do a lot of market research. I, for example, I'm just finishing up a big study that I did for the New Zealand Trade and Enterprise where we're looking at different generational cohorts and how to market to each of those generations. And I share a lot of my insights on the Business of Drinks podcast.

And that's the format of that podcast is we track trends and we interview the most innovative people in the drink space, which is why Fawn was on and talk to them about how they've built their brands. Yeah. So that's, I'm excited to be here with everyone today.

Caitlyn LuBell (03:54.453)
Yeah.
Jessie Ott (58:43.049)
Before we shift off to surprises, I do want to talk about one thing that we haven't talked about that I feel is a major shift in our industry. And it's been happening for a few years and that's this shift from, I know the wine industry kind of started it, going from a traditional wine and spirits distributor to a beer distributor.

And I, wasn't it treasury that did it like five or six years ago? I don't know if they're still doing it or how good it worked out. But then I know Erica, you had, Beat Beatbox and that's their success story shifting into the district, to the, to the beer networks, being a wine based product. And then now we're seeing it with, with sake because it's, it's a brew, right? It's actually technically a brewed product. but most people kind of view it.

Erica Duecy (59:21.451)
B-Box,

Right.

Erica Duecy (59:29.43)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (59:40.423)
probably more like a wine. So do you guys have any input or any is anybody talking about that in your circles about about what's happening with that?

Erica Duecy (59:51.019)
Yeah, in my circles, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think after we did the beatbox episode, which for people who are unfamiliar with that, it's a party punch in a resealable little carton, know, RTD format. It's a wine based product. And they were on Shark Tank, you know, probably about a decade ago.

But they really tried to grow through traditional wine and spirits distribution and then realizing that RTDs were starting to explode and really the usage occasion being more like convenience stores, that's where they said, okay, look, maybe it's going to make sense for us to move over. It was actually their distributor.

from one of the big distributors who said like, we've helped foster you as far as we can. And now you need to shift over to beer distribution because you mostly are going to be picked up in convenience stores, know, Safeways and all those sorts of things. So it was like hockey stick type growth. But since that episode aired, I've had so many RTD founders tell me that they were either already talking to

to beer distributors to go that route or that this kind of gave them a new idea and that they were starting to pursue that route. So I think we're kind of moving into a like what I like to call, you know, a post base world. We always have a, we have a great contributor, Brian Roth, who every year I have him on for a trends episode. Last year for 2024, we said we were moving into the post.

alcohol base, like no one, no consumers care what the alcohol base is like anymore. They don't consider themselves wine drinkers or beer drinkers. And now this year we just recorded another one of these episodes and like we've moved past the post space world. So like, I think that that was another thing that we saw in, one year, but you know, that idea of more thinking about the occasions and venues in which these things will be served.

Kate Jerkens (01:01:48.938)
you

Erica Duecy (01:01:56.809)
It's less about the traditional categories and more about the end consumer and that route to market, making it as quickly and direct as possible. So for a lot of brands, think really beer distribution does make a lot of sense.

Julie Milroy (01:02:12.524)
Yeah. And I think you brought up a big, you know, big topic there, RTD, ready to drink, right? Something that's been, you know, kind of jumping in and definitely stealing a lot of share. And it does make sense because it's, it really took a lot of share from beer, right? I mean, you go into the grocery stores and I'd be like, why can't they stack our wine like that? You know, I mean, just like

boxes boxes and boxes of Corona before you get to Michelob. And the RTDs came in and really took a lot of that share. think a constellation that's always had a beer arm and, you know, and then even Gallo, right, with like between high noon. I can't even keep up with all the different ones, but I think we'll continue seeing the beer industry merge in RTD.

And then to your point, Jessie, around, and then if we think of like the younger consumers and what they're drinking, right? Like back when I was, LDA, legal drinking age, right? It was all about like Boone's Farm and stuff.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:03:12.278)
you

Jessie Ott (01:03:25.493)
Heck yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:03:25.637)
Strawberry Hill.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:03:27.094)
Gettleson James wine coolers.

Erica Duecy (01:03:27.112)
Exactly.

Julie Milroy (01:03:28.004)
right, wine coolers and stuff like that. Now it's just straight RTDs. mean, people love it, you know? And like you said, Erica, it doesn't matter what the base is. Like whether it's malt, tequila, whatever, they just, they want it and it's easy to drink and they can have multiple cans and it's all good. When we think about,

Kate Jerkens (01:03:34.344)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:03:52.01)
Sake, Jessie, and I, you know, I actually did a level three wine set certification on sake. Don't ask me how I even passed that because I probably couldn't answer anything now. But what I did learn.

Erica Duecy (01:03:59.927)
you

Kate Jerkens (01:04:02.526)
Congratulations.

Jessie Ott (01:04:04.637)
Isn't it amazing though how much we don't know about sake?

Erica Duecy (01:04:08.117)
Hahaha.

Julie Milroy (01:04:08.184)
Well, what I did learn, the one thing is, is that it is closer to a beer than a wine, right? Because it is brew and it has a shelf life and it requires temperature control more so than wine. So as we were going through this whole class and we were tasting all these sake from our warehouse and we had this like, you know, instructors from Japan, they were like, these are all bad. These are all bad.

Jessie Ott (01:04:18.068)
Yes.

Julie Milroy (01:04:37.126)
my goodness. Like that's what we just pulled out of our warehouse. And that was a reason why mostly, even with Southern Glazers, they, we got away from beer because of the temperature control nature. mean, it's, you know, you've got to have the trucks, you've got to go back and things expire and whatnot. And with sake, it's, it's very much the same. So it does make sense that like,

Jessie Ott (01:04:58.278)
Expired, yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:05:06.312)
RTDs and sake align with the beer industry. And I think the beer industry, we talk about like everybody feeling the pain, I think the beer industry has probably felt it more if they're not, if they don't have a parallel with RTDs in the last few years. So,

Kate Jerkens (01:05:23.318)
Sure. Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:05:32.694)
It's natural. just don't know that like the traditional wine and spirits would fit in that even though I'm always one that appreciated the beer industry and their marketing tactics, especially with consumer events and promotions. I think the wine industry could learn a lot from how the beer industry goes to market and really adds a lot of value with

Kate Jerkens (01:05:47.418)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:06:00.974)
promotions and consumer tastings.

Kate Jerkens (01:06:03.819)
Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:06:04.342)
Well, one of the challenges in the past was that they didn't necessarily the salespeople from the distributor, again, no disrespect to the distributors, but they didn't have the expertise, right? So the wine, sorry, the beer people didn't really know how to sell wine or they didn't have the knowledge to sell spirits. Even in wine and spirits when Southern used to have a wine division, a spirits division, and I remember when they created

the Pearl Division, the Sapphire Division, was like trying to get the spirits people to now sell wine. It was a challenge that they, cause they just wanted to their spirit. Yeah, I'm a spirits guy or whatever. But now again, with the evolution of, you you kind of have to hire your own people, then maybe that doesn't matter as much, right? And so, and I think there has been a crossover with spirits in particular, like well spirits and things like that have moved to the beer side.

Kate Jerkens (01:06:42.3)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:07:01.49)
as well. it does make a lot of sense for especially RTDs and Sakes. Sure, you know, but you got to have your own salespeople anyway. So it's okay.

Kate Jerkens (01:07:07.419)
in.

Julie Milroy (01:07:10.882)
Yeah. And then you consider the licensing component, right? It's want to have a low alco-beer wine license versus a spirits license. So that's...

Kate Jerkens (01:07:11.538)
Yeah. I just think it's. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:07:13.354)
What?

Caitlyn LuBell (01:07:21.622)
Sure. Yep.

Kate Jerkens (01:07:23.402)
And it depends on every market because it doesn't make like to your point, does it make sense in every market? Because there's some stores that only allow you to sell beer and wine and don't let you allow you to sell spirits. so working with those guys, I think it's really important to know the routes that these beer guys have and what their guys are doing. I don't and it's no disrespect to anyone. But if you're trying to grow your business in the on-premise and you're not a well product, it's not going to be a great fit because they just don't have like...

they don't have the time for that either. It really just becomes time and they're selling huge volume and the beer is pretty straightforward in a lot of places. I guess it would depend. Maybe you're working with like a more craft distributor or something like that where there's a lot more hand selling of things. we've done some of both and major brands like a major Sazerac, they changed their whole model and they're doing a lot with beer as well. But they're putting a lot, that's

They did some great negotiating, had different types of contracts with them and then brought in more salespeople. So it'll be interesting and fun to watch what happens over time for them because that's a pretty major brand with pretty major spirits to see how that works as well.

Julie Milroy (01:08:31.982)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (01:08:34.089)
There's a, one of my customers is trying to get into Texas and he's looking at a typical regular distributor. I don't remember the names and then a beer distributor. In fact, the beer distributor is going after them really aggressively and are really excited about building out this, this craft kind of spirit division. And so I'm wondering if they're seeing the writing on the wall where there's a problem. We've got the people and our beer sales are down.

Julie Milroy (01:09:01.635)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (01:09:01.875)
So let's get a higher ring and let's get out there. We're in the stores. So why not throw a couple bottles in and see what happens. So I'll be interested also to see kind of how that comes into play in Texas next year.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:09:01.888)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:09:01.928)
Right.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:09:05.801)
Sure.

Kate Jerkens (01:09:07.754)
Smart.

Kate Jerkens (01:09:15.164)
If they can have some success with a couple of big brands, that will change the model. Then you've got some opportunity for some of these smaller brands that coming that's maybe who literally just need someone to distribute them and drop the product off.

Jessie Ott (01:09:18.74)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:09:20.803)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Milroy (01:09:28.856)
Yeah. And the margins are so much higher with spirits, right? So we're seeing even from traditional wine suppliers, right? Like Foley Family Wine, Bill Foley just recently got heavy into spirits because, you know, when you consider wine, not only is the category challenged, you know, the influx of competition and options is that it's

Caitlyn LuBell (01:09:29.534)
Well, exactly.

Erica Duecy (01:09:30.316)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:09:44.146)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Milroy (01:09:57.494)
It's an agricultural product. That's what we would always hear. an agricultural product. So if you have a bad vintage, you don't have enough. And it's where spirits is pretty straightforward and the margins are so high. So they've really been ramping up the spirit side of the business and launching new spirits. it makes sense that, you know, whatever losses, you know, that you would have with wine or beer could easily be made up with spirits.

Jessie Ott (01:10:00.242)
It is.

Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:10:26.782)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Erica Duecy (01:10:28.181)
Yeah, I we're going to start seeing a lot more of that. the, you know, it's not, think you, you look at Gallo and like their number one, you know, of growth product being high noon. And then the trajectory of that has led to things like, you know, John Anthony, they recently shifted from John Anthony family of wines to John Anthony wine and spirits. They're like the makers of jam cellars, the butter Chardonnay and like they're now.

Kate Jerkens (01:10:51.306)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:10:52.612)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:10:56.928)
I'm a big supporter of Butter Chardonnay just for the record everybody. I just would like to say it. That's great.

Erica Duecy (01:10:59.817)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:10:59.956)
Hahaha!

Caitlyn LuBell (01:11:01.59)
One of my best friends works for them and she is like, there's so much fun. Like they do a bottle rock, like that's their meetings and like they have, they have the best time.

Erica Duecy (01:11:10.657)
Yeah, well, that's... Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's...

Julie Milroy (01:11:10.83)
they have the best concerts or the best events in Wattle Rock.

Kate Jerkens (01:11:11.411)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:11:16.498)
If you like a good buttery everyday shartoo, really gets the job done. So they've done a great job.

Erica Duecy (01:11:20.535)
It does. But I think we see, like, you know, and Jackson family's now doing a bourbon and did that. So I think like this, this kind of growth and expansion of portfolios, just makes so much sense to diversify if you're a portfolio. But to your point, Kate, bringing in the fun, I think like the brands that are really finding success are doing a great job of reaching out to new consumers in a way that feels fun.

Jessie Ott (01:11:20.627)
Hahaha!

Kate Jerkens (01:11:27.487)
Right?

Caitlyn LuBell (01:11:35.232)
sure.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:11:44.81)
Beatbox!

Erica Duecy (01:11:50.231)
So I think, you know, like I love, you know, like, like La Crema with their, they're doing so many of these. I think they did, I don't know, something like 90 different activations last year of like popping up at like farmers markets and pride festivals and like all these sorts of places where they're like, how can we bring in, you know, multicultural consumers, consumers who have been under marketed to.

Kate Jerkens (01:11:52.02)
For sure.

Erica Duecy (01:12:18.123)
to bring them into this brand fold, but in a way that feels like fun and casual. So I think like these sorts of like experiential activations for whatever makes sense for the brand, know, for Avaline, maybe it's like a wellness pop-up for, you know, for some brands, it's like the bottle rocks. Like those type of activations and like making it more about the experience and like the lifestyle experience as opposed to just like a product.

Kate Jerkens (01:12:22.792)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:12:45.801)
seems to be also just resonating a lot in the current market.

Kate Jerkens (01:12:46.059)
Yep.

Kate Jerkens (01:12:49.512)
Well, you look at High Noon, like so when I toured some distributor warehouses this year and some of our big distributors without, mean, High Noon has been a game changer for them. It's equal growth versus negative growth if you take High Noon out of it for them. they, you know, High Noon do the big partnership with Barstool Sports and that's where there was just this huge lift and that's a fun brand. It's a fun CEO and they do a lot of fun stuff and they're completely talking to the target demographic of High Noon and that growth has been.

I mean, that's like, it's another level of growth truly what High Noon has done. And I mean, they've changed, they've completely changed that whole segment.

Jessie Ott (01:13:28.244)
Yeah, 100%.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:13:29.61)
I see Uncle Neerus doing a lot of fun things, by the way. When I'm, I travel around for events and I always see Uncle Neerus and have great build-outs and just doing fun things and getting the crowd to come over. I really do. I'm always like, look at them doing it again.

Jessie Ott (01:13:31.919)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:13:32.296)
We're really fun too.

Erica Duecy (01:13:33.621)
Hahaha!

Julie Milroy (01:13:33.668)
Thank you.

Kate Jerkens (01:13:43.722)
Appreciate that.

Kate Jerkens (01:13:48.362)
I mean, that's money well spent, right? It's just, it's, you know, look, we spend a lot of time with our distributors, but we've got to, our story is so important. And I think that's other piece is the more consumer facing events you do, you know, and they don't have to be over the top. You don't have to have huge build outs. But it is intimidating for smaller companies as you come on board and you go to some of those consumer events. And this is where the big brands and that money, and it's like, okay, everyone's going over to this giant platform they've set up and there's

Caitlyn LuBell (01:14:17.738)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:14:17.842)
girls, right? like, all the things I mean, I did a podcast on this once of like my first time at WSWA in Vegas, and just how much money is put into like women with shots and things and like just like there's just so much like glitz glamour sex that they're using to sell everything. And I think when you're an incoming brand, that's pretty intimidating as well, because you just don't have the means nor for me, that's not my flavor at all. But there's just a lot of it's

Caitlyn LuBell (01:14:38.656)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:14:44.702)
Consumer-facing events are interesting. You got to find your niche and your way to like sort of stand out when you don't have all of

Caitlyn LuBell (01:14:51.114)
Yes, I agree.

Julie Milroy (01:14:51.192)
Mm.

Jessie Ott (01:14:55.071)
So I think we can shift to maybe surprises. I know we've kind of brushed on a few. I can give mine or if somebody else wants to kind of start, I feel like I kind of started last time. Does anybody want to start?

Caitlyn LuBell (01:15:15.07)
I think one of the surprises for me, obviously having a fairly new company and being on the backside of things now is, well, two big ones. One is that people are really open-minded to be innovative about their hiring, which is really cool. I think everybody kind of gets that we're in a little bit of a broken system here and how can we all bond together to make things better?

Jessie Ott (01:15:15.273)
Okay.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:15:44.342)
But also, it's kind of on the negative and I don't mean to be negative. I'm always very positive. But if you ask people in companies, what's their number one most important thing, they'll always say they're people. And then our next question is great. So what's your hiring process look like? And they're like, that's a good question. I'm not sure how that's going to go. And unfortunately,

And it's important to be said because creating a good hiring experience is all part of getting the best team and getting the best people on board. And it's been surprising to see that that's not a focus, even with very large companies. I mean, I remember how long it took me to get my job at St. Michelle Wine Estates, love them, but it took me a really long time and they almost lost me multiple times because of it.

Kate Jerkens (01:16:28.112)
Hmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:16:41.704)
So, but then seeing it on this side, it's like, okay, you really have to focus. If you're going to say the people are the most important thing, invest in your people and that's paying people well, having a proper hiring process, having a good, strong onboarding process. And because this is really important to have your own people, we're not relying on the distributor anymore as much. And so I think, you know, it's, is surprising to see.

that not enough focus on that. And I think we're working and talking hard about trying to help fix that. And yeah, it's just something that we've kind of noticed, but also people are very innovative and open-minded. So if we're like, hey, you really need to have a good system and make this a priority and make this important. They're like, actually, you're right. And we say, okay, maybe you don't have the money to.

hire five different people in five different states. Let's talk about getting fractional salespeople and sharing them with other brands and it'll be more cost effective. that's a good idea. Let's talk about that. So I think, you know, it's kind of on both sides and surprised to see kind of the misses, but then also excited, positively surprised to see people being open minded and be like, tell us more about that. Let's talk about that. This could be a better path, right?

Kate Jerkens (01:17:58.242)
you

Kate Jerkens (01:18:07.275)
Right.

Jessie Ott (01:18:09.897)
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all that most companies, I don't think most companies have a very good onboarding flow and process. think it's, people get busy. It's hard to, it's hard to interview. They know they need to make time, but it's just, it's, it's just, it's, it's hard, you know, but it's so important.

Kate Jerkens (01:18:20.906)
It's so important.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:18:26.933)
But it's so important. It's so important to have the right team. There's so many great candidates out there right now and great people, passive and active that, but you got to treat them right. Cause they're picky too. They're interviewing you as well. Right. And so you want to get the best of the best. You got to be pretty buttoned up and you know, have a good path. I don't know. That was a little off the beaten path of what we've talked about, but.

Julie Milroy (01:18:27.62)
Thank

Kate Jerkens (01:18:44.2)
Sure.

Kate Jerkens (01:18:52.104)
Earth.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:18:57.824)
For me, it's what I'm seeing.

Jessie Ott (01:18:59.871)
think that's interesting. think it's important to be noted because like, I don't know how many times all five of us have said how important it is to have the right people and the right teams and the right goals and the right, all the right things. So that needs to be a focus for 25 for sure. If they want to see the growth and they want to get their goals, then that's, that's, I would start there. Yeah, for sure. And anyone else?

Kate Jerkens (01:19:07.978)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:19:22.059)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:19:26.252)
I mean, I'll add to that. think, you know, and it's not a surprise for me, but I think a surprise for many is that, you know, one, everybody is so focused on, you know, the youth, the youth, they're not drinking wine, they're not drinking, you know, they're drinking less. And I think the big opportunity is HNW, High Net Worth Woman.

you know, and executive woman. And I mean, I think of my network, with women that have disposable income and they make really good money. And a lot of them, you know, have chosen, you know, not to have kids or to be single and have their cats that don't cost as much, but they've got, you know, they have

Jessie Ott (01:20:16.12)
Yeah

Caitlyn LuBell (01:20:16.598)
You

Julie Milroy (01:20:20.684)
incredible palates and my friends are always wanting to learn and they're always and I feel like they're the ones that are willing to buy that expensive bottle of champagne or that super premium tequila and whatnot. And I think like we and you know, wine and spirit suppliers need to market to women and not continue the same old playbook of marketing to men. They're not the only ones that are buying.

Jessie Ott (01:20:33.247)
that experience.

Julie Milroy (01:20:50.562)
And if you think of household, right? mean, a lot of the women are the ones that are picking the wines and it's not like, and buying, right? And choosing. And it's not about like, okay, we got to make it whimsical and, you know, and have a girl in the commercial. It's really about speaking to women and treating them as the earner, right? The head of household, the high income,

Jessie Ott (01:20:55.637)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:20:56.67)
doing the buying. Yeah, 100%.

Julie Milroy (01:21:20.324)
consumer. you know, one thing that I've always wanted to do is like a project in the back of my head was like, really teaching my friends like the world of collecting wine and how to invest in wine or whiskeys and whatnot, you know, and I think that nobody's speaking to them, right? So they're learning about a great product and they're drinking it. But what about that next level? You know, when you look at Wine Spectator and all these things, they're still talking.

Kate Jerkens (01:21:32.577)
well.

Julie Milroy (01:21:49.742)
to the same. And I think that that's a huge opportunity is, you know, high net worth woman. And then the digital piece, right, is using digital transformation and social media. you know, I mean, you'd be shocked how many even brands that have been around forever don't even have the right digital content.

Right? Like so basic when we think about distributors, now they all, I know Southern Glaciers, like they have a B2C commerce platform, right? So maybe not every salesperson can get into that account, but I guarantee that account and those buyers are in the middle of the night looking and seeing what else is available and having your content.

updated. Like that's free. I mean, it's not free to get the content, but to have all of that available, a lot of these big retailers won't even feature your product on their site if you don't have the correct content. So I think these are a couple surprises for a lot of people in the industry that they need to maybe like double down on and take seriously as we go into 2025.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:23:01.938)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:23:02.334)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:23:13.395)
I love that. That's super, super interesting. I mean, I don't think about it. You're absolutely right. I think that the wine industry is going to have to do something. I mean, the ebb and flow of the percentages of beer and spirits and wine is going to continue to do so. But I do think that there's going to be an evolution of wine. And one of the graphs that I saw actually saw RTD wines growing really, really big into the

Kate Jerkens (01:23:13.953)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (01:23:42.261)
2030s and that kind of surprised me. But yeah, thank you for that, Julie. That was very insightful.

Kate Jerkens (01:23:49.266)
Mm-hmm.

I would just say for 2024, I my biggest surprise is how surprised we were. Like, meaning that there wasn't a lot of forecasting coming on how this year's turned out. It's all sort of happened in the moment, and I'm not completely sure that everybody has the forecast right still going into 2025. So I think the surprise is the surprise. And I think the other thing for me is I'm noticing

Jessie Ott (01:23:53.672)
Kate?

Erica Duecy (01:23:56.981)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:24:15.136)
Hehe.

Kate Jerkens (01:24:17.906)
I know about you all, but I buy a lot from people serving me the proper ads on Instagram. I'm easily influenced. I don't think that alcohol companies yet have done back to your targeting. Maybe this is a stereotype, but think women in particular like to buy pretty instantaneously and like things at their fingertips. I don't think we've mastered as an industry how to do that very well on social media.

Jessie Ott (01:24:43.893)
100%.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:24:46.558)
It's still so new to our world, right? Because I mean, e-comm for us is only a few years before the pandemic is when it started and people were just getting their footing and then all of a sudden the pandemic hit and it was like, okay, because the whole DTC and all the laws and logistics. So I think our industry is still really learning it. There's still companies that are not quite sure what to do at e-comm. So that's a hard one because it's like, yeah, you want to be able to

Kate Jerkens (01:24:56.607)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:25:08.604)
Very much so.

Jessie Ott (01:25:14.41)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:25:16.378)
see the Instagram, click on it and buy and companies are kind of like, I don't know how to get there yet or I don't have the money to get there yet or, you so, yeah, it's, for sure.

Kate Jerkens (01:25:21.546)
It's not as easy as that.

Jessie Ott (01:25:23.284)
Thank

Kate Jerkens (01:25:26.178)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:25:28.937)
What an easy opportunity.

Kate Jerkens (01:25:31.186)
It is, and inexpensive too.

Erica Duecy (01:25:33.399)
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the big concerns I've talked to some of the bigger brands about this, one of the big concerns is around compliance. So I think, I think that's like, exactly, exactly. And like, you know, I was talking to a brand that was telling me like their accounts got canceled because they didn't have it set at 25. They had it set at 23.

Jessie Ott (01:25:33.854)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:25:40.811)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:25:42.502)
Age gating and everything is tough too, yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:25:55.595)
Right. And so there's like all these sorts of rules that you have to know. And if you're, even if you're a big brand, you still are having to negotiate these things. I think like those sort of like modified DTC where you're going through a third party platform, like a reserve bar sort of thing is like a way around that. But it does seem like a lot of brands are still trying to figure that out right now. Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:26:17.256)
still trying to figure it out without a doubt. We don't get e-comm and digital roles a lot at all. And I have so many candidates that do it and nobody's asking us to hire for it. I'm like, and we work with small to medium sized companies and I'm like, what are they doing? Like, I guess they're outsourcing and you know, sometimes we ask them, but it's mind blowing to me. I thought that I would

Kate Jerkens (01:26:25.834)
Which is interesting, there's, I mean.

Erica Duecy (01:26:29.718)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:26:47.09)
I thought this year we'd be filling so many digital roles and not at all. Not at all. It's honestly it's like, okay, is the bubble not here yet? I don't know. I don't know what to even tell these candidates because I'm like, we don't really get these roles. Check the big companies. Maybe they're hiring for them. So I don't know. I'm not sure. Are they just not there yet?

Erica Duecy (01:26:53.984)
Interesting.

Erica Duecy (01:27:15.574)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:27:16.322)
I mean, I, from experience, I think that, you when we think of even, you know, Southern Glazers, a lot of the digital team from outside of the industry, because you didn't have a lot of seasoned industry experts that are digital. So a lot of my colleagues that all come from different e-commerce, know, Instagram, Instacart, Instagram, but Instacart and all these things, like they all.

Jessie Ott (01:27:23.477)
Thank

Jessie Ott (01:27:28.405)
.

Julie Milroy (01:27:45.796)
They came from other industries and you can see them in the office. know, they all look different. They've got their skinny jeans and like, you know, they're just not your typical industry people. Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:27:49.59)
we do.

Jessie Ott (01:27:55.477)
You

Kate Jerkens (01:27:58.25)
Are you saying they're cooler than us? that what's going on?

Erica Duecy (01:27:59.627)
Hahaha.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:28:00.35)
hahahahah

Julie Milroy (01:28:03.662)
But what I've found challenging as I've managed suppliers and brands that are doing really well and we're trying to get them to that next level and to really step up is getting them in the digital game, in the e-commerce game. And Kate, you mentioned being able to, I'm like that too. I'm such a sucker for if I see something good, I'm gonna buy it right now. And the easier it is, the more likely I'm gonna buy it.

There are tactics and these different platforms, digital platforms that can do that, but it's the education that is hard and it's difficult within our industry because we're so behind when it comes to that digital transformation. And a lot of it is because of our laws, because of our three tier system and all this stuff. But I think...

for any brand really digging into it because those resources are there. And the quicker you get on board with that and start leveraging it with, especially with the big distributors, they have those resources available. You just have to be uncomfortable and wanna learn it. And I see the pushback with a lot of like, everybody just wants to continue doing.

Jessie Ott (01:29:19.539)
Okay.

Julie Milroy (01:29:22.776)
marketing and, and, you know, that not really wanting to explore digital marketing because it's so overwhelming how many different platforms and, and tools there are, but really leaning on experts that know, and some of these distributors have in-house digital experts that are available to you to learn. maybe taking it like one tiny step at a time.

Jessie Ott (01:29:23.742)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:29:49.637)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:29:49.873)
but I think that that is like the near future in order to differentiate yourself.

Jessie Ott (01:29:56.157)
Yeah, I just interviewed a gentleman. He's a veteran, Eric Martindale with the Elite Commerce Group. And he talked about not so much on Instagram, but in Instacart. Like if you have an item in Whole Foods or, you know, wherever online platform it is, he has a way to get to 30 % of those people that are buying that instantly. Right?

And he has all those tactics. And I didn't even think about that as being a part of our industry or part of a tactic to keep your product, you know, getting the volume turns that it needs in order to stay on the shelf. And so I think, you know, that's another real big opportunity for brands in 2025. You know, there aren't like, there's people that know this.

Kate Jerkens (01:30:38.026)
Absolutely.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:30:38.08)
Great. I love it. Yeah, there are. have great people that know this stuff and can build it out from the ground up. they just have to be, the brands have to be open to investing the money to do so. And then that's really it, right? Invest what it costs to hire the right person to build it out for you.

Erica Duecy (01:30:38.988)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:30:42.25)
I

Kate Jerkens (01:30:46.601)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:31:01.546)
But distributors are also getting on board. We partner with R &DC in over 30 states and they have a big e-commerce team and they've guided us in some stuff too, like things we were doing and they've enhanced it. And so I think distributors becoming experts in this really behooves them. makes them great partners. And a perfect example the other day, I had another sick kid at home. Maybe you guys seen the pattern. And I'm ordering the sprites and all the things. And I go to close my Instacart and it was from Bristol Farms here in LA.

and it sent me a sponsored message that I'd forgotten something and it was Uncle Nears 1884. And it was like, I was literally beaming with pride at that moment. But I'm like, that's a great, not because I wanted to buy whiskey at that moment, but the people that know our brand, if they see that and they're like, it's that easy, yeah, I'm gonna, yeah, they're already delivering it, why not? I mean, that's great tool for quick, easy pull for somebody who's not walking into the grocery store. So having...

Caitlyn LuBell (01:31:34.526)
Yeah, yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:31:34.621)
Yay!

Kate Jerkens (01:31:55.626)
on your team or with your distributors or both is huge because those are just easy moments to just, you know, just to toss something in your cart. And it's compliant and, you know, you don't have to worry about it.

Erica Duecy (01:32:07.873)
Yeah, that's smart. Definitely.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:32:09.664)
I think a lot of brands recognize the need for it and want to do it or excited about it. They just don't either have the funding to invest in it or they don't know where to start kind of thing. So, but I think they get it. They're like, I need to get better at this. I just not quite sure.

Kate Jerkens (01:32:18.824)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:32:28.852)
I give a brand a tip. When you look at any kind of consumer product good, you know, about in today's world and our digital world, up to about 30 % of your marketing dollars should be allocated to digital and digital marketing. And, you know, the bigger brands like Constellation, they've been doing this way early and

Caitlyn LuBell (01:32:48.341)
good.

Julie Milroy (01:32:55.384)
You know, everybody wants to know like, why is Josh Sellers and Oyster Bay? you know, the numbers are crazy. The distribution's crazy. It's because of their investment into the digital platform. And I think like, to your point, Caitlyn, like everybody wants to do it. They know they should do it, but they're like, we don't have the money for it because they're thinking like, well, we already have our marketing budget. We need more money to do digital. No, you need to take what you have.

Kate Jerkens (01:33:05.834)
Mm.

Julie Milroy (01:33:23.812)
and try different things. And, you know, as you plan, hopefully everybody has their plan set up for 2020. Or if they don't have a marketing budget, but you need to go back out and raise some money.

Kate Jerkens (01:33:26.014)
Reallocate it, yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:33:29.322)
Well, some of them don't even have our marketing budget yet because they're still, you know, we do talk, we do talk to a lot of startups. So, you know, they don't even, they're talking sales, sales, sales, and they, but they, but they do know they want to do it. And that's a, that's a good point. I'll definitely use that of like, you should be allocating 30 % of your marketing budget.

Julie Milroy (01:33:48.068)
Yeah, and just even when you think of 21 seeds, right? I mean, that brand is incredible and they were, I think, sold to Diageo, right? But her whole marketing, everything was like not print magazine because that cost a fortune. Everything was about how do I take digital and social and get my brand out there and get her out there, right? And like, and it was a huge success. So like,

Caitlyn LuBell (01:33:58.335)
Yep.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:34:14.015)
That's it.

Julie Milroy (01:34:17.072)
reading that kind of case study and seeing how they did it from a brand new brand, no connections, no big suppliers, her own personal story, really starting digital first and then now being a household brand is an incredible story.

Kate Jerkens (01:34:21.506)
Mm.

Jessie Ott (01:34:39.181)
Yeah, time check here. We got about 12 minutes. Unless you all want to stay a little longer, it's up to you. I just am kind of surprised at the success of the Lo and No. Everybody was talking about it, but I think it's part of our culture now. It's not just a section or a few people over here or whatever. It's every day, right?

when you talk to, when I talk to the owners of Athletic Brewing, they're like, yeah, 30 % of our customers are consumers. They'll actually trade off beer for non-alcoholic beer and whatnot. And so I think that that's interesting for me. I think it's bigger than I thought it would be. The second thing, the CBD THC is really, really a surprise for me, the acceptance and then their success. So I don't know if you guys have ever

Kate Jerkens (01:35:26.016)
What?

Jessie Ott (01:35:34.983)
Listened to the podcast on and off with Melissa Dowling, editor of Cheers and Kyle Swartz, editor of Beverage Dynamics magazine. But Kyle goes through every fall. think he picks, he said he takes a different selection of the country and he travels like to three states. gets in a car and he sets up 13 or 15 appointments. And he said the shocking thing, it wasn't so much shocking, but like telling.

was every retailer he went to, the CBD and THC drinks were flying off the shelves. People were coming and buying like, I don't know, he said a cart full. Like this guy was kind of dressed up and you know, like a business man got seven cases or know, boxes of like the CBD stuff and put it in his cart. And so that's kind of surprising for me that it's...

Kate Jerkens (01:36:08.763)
I'll see you.

Kate Jerkens (01:36:28.567)
It's a lot. Yeah, that's substantial change. Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:36:29.623)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:36:31.357)
Yeah, it's growing and it's growing a lot faster. Certainly than I expected. I had a live happy hour earlier in the year with experts on it talking about it. And so I think that's part of the wellness piece too, which I think is good. I really kind of thought RTDs would slow down, not including the cannabis stuff, you know.

I didn't expect it to continue to keep going with all the new brands. There's constant innovation in this space and I really thought it would flatten out and I don't think that's happening. And so that was kind of a surprise for me. So as far as 2024, my last podcast, last year, my last round table, I had summarized what I thought would be in 2024 as community.

I was seeing people on X saying, if you're, if you're interested in these five topics, ping me. You know, I felt like there was more of this sense of community and belonging and, finding your interests in certain things, and becoming a part of that community. And I've, I've talked to different people on the podcast that are, you know, restaurant entrepreneurs and they're saying that, yeah, it's all about, you know, building the local concept now.

You know, it's like your neighborhood bar around the corner, that kind of thing. And so I think that felt was the case. And I think that will continue as, you know, these brands try to connect different consumer bases. They're gonna do their trial and they're gonna find that community that they wanna belong in. And then the second one was experience. So I'll give you an example. Last December, my wife and I went out.

shopping for Christmas and we had, we had like a lunch or whatever. And then we decided to go to the speakeasy, like just down the street and I got a bathtub gin. Well, come to find out it shows up really in a bathtub with, a ducky and then foam on top. And, and we giggled and laughed for 45 minutes. It was so fun. And so that sparked my, my gosh, it's experience because I've had.

Kate Jerkens (01:38:39.402)
It's honestly so cute, I love it.

Jessie Ott (01:38:48.103)
gin and whatever drink cocktail experience, whatever, this just took it to a whole new level. And I think that's the kind of stuff that's going to get the attention of the younger kids. It's going to be the experience piece. They like all the things. So I think that kind of, for me, I feel like that probably is still the case and probably in 225 as well. My surprise word is the word gummy because

Erica Duecy (01:39:14.997)
Hahaha.

Jessie Ott (01:39:17.15)
You can eat a gummy... Whatever it is. Medicine, vitamins, pot, you name it. Everything's a gummy now.

Kate Jerkens (01:39:28.682)
People are selling boozy gummies now too, which I think is wild.

Erica Duecy (01:39:32.448)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:39:33.747)
Why not? You know? Why not?

Kate Jerkens (01:39:35.294)
Why not? There is, living in California, I tell you there's zero stigma when it comes to like at this point anything marijuana related and it took a long time, but it's like people will have cans of that. Like if you're hosting a party with wine, beer, you also have cans of the THC drinks and CBD drinks. It's really very interesting. And thus the whole term California sober where a lot of people maybe aren't consuming alcohol anymore, but everyone seems to think weed is just fine, which is interesting.

Jessie Ott (01:40:02.271)
Huh. Yeah, that is interesting. And maybe that's part of the challenge you're experiencing.

Julie Milroy (01:40:03.694)
Mm-hmm.

Erica Duecy (01:40:05.057)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:40:09.151)
Yeah, I mean, I will say like, for me, 2025, I think will be the year of functional. And by functional, that means both like THC CBD, as well as like the adaptogen drinks, you know, so like, all of these, this whole class of beverages is really formulated to give mood specific benefits, whether it's like calming or uplifting or social.

Kate Jerkens (01:40:10.002)
Maybe, yeah, call.

Kate Jerkens (01:40:22.867)
Mmm.

Jessie Ott (01:40:22.889)
Yep. Adaptogens.

Erica Duecy (01:40:32.885)
through any of a variety of things like THC, nootropics, know, L-theanine, like all these amino acids and so forth. Yeah, yeah, I bet. mean, I think, and probably, probably because we're of the age where we're getting marketed this stuff on our Instagram accounts, right? Exactly. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But, you know.

Jessie Ott (01:40:41.819)
several of them in my coffee every day. Mushrooms. Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:40:44.735)
I know, right? Don't you feel like a better person because of it?

Again, I'll buy it up. You tell me I'm not gonna go through paraminopause crazily or whatever it is. I'll take it.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:40:53.47)
Yes.

I see. Exactly.

Erica Duecy (01:41:00.755)
It's incredible to me that like I had the founder of CAN, know, C-A-N-N, the THC drinks, like they, they built, they spun up a $36 million business in four years, you know, and then, Recess, which is another one of the mood specific ones, you know, that's exactly their marketing is fantastic. And you know, that's again, like $10 million. These things taste good.

Kate Jerkens (01:41:01.246)
Yeah.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:41:18.422)
They're great. Their marketing was awesome.

Kate Jerkens (01:41:23.294)
And they all taste good.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:41:24.746)
They taste good.

Erica Duecy (01:41:27.343)
and they have the functional effects. So I think like whether or not you do feel the like the sort of different effects of them or it's just like these things are infused with, know, green tea and all of these types of things that are good for you. For me, it feels like this CPG crossover of like everything we were drinking is like the Olipops and poppies and all these better for you sodas. And now it's just crossed into alcohol.

And I think that's like, that for me feels like what the innovation that we're going to see in 2025 is like more alcohol brands and non-alcohol brands embracing like functionality in their drinks.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:42:01.962)
started out.

Jessie Ott (01:42:06.933)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:42:07.166)
Yeah. And by the way, calorically, they all make sense because can and all those recess, they are very low calorie. think that's a big thing for people too. There is the health function there. It's like I can get the same benefits as a glass of wine, but it's 10 calories or whatever it is versus 140, you know.

Julie Milroy (01:42:14.956)
Yeah, low calorie.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:42:23.199)
Yeah.

Erica Duecy (01:42:24.929)
Totally.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:42:25.75)
And my business partner, Jen, she's a mom. She has two young kids. And so she's still about to feel like she has a drink, but she's been exploring a ton of booze-free options. we just recently signed our first low-alch client, they have a non-boose-free as well, or non-alch, or whatever you want to call it. But we're really digging into alternate beverages because it's beverage.

And they want people from the industry, right? Because they want people that understand how to sell beverages and boozy beverages, but they want to just kind of sidestep it. But it's definitely, I think, going to continue to grow for sure.

Kate Jerkens (01:42:58.751)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (01:43:14.193)
Anyone else have a word for 25? Or 24?

Kate Jerkens (01:43:17.053)
Okay.

Jessie Ott (01:43:20.245)
I'll tell you my 25 is I'm with you Erica. It was health, health or health focus because I do think that's gonna continue to change to be the trend just as you said and for me personally, that's gonna be a focus. And then the other word is elevate because if you're gonna...

If you're going to be a brand with so much competition and not a lot of options through distribution, you got to elevate your game, right? You can't just be just a brand. You got to have a story. You got to have a tagline. You got to have the marketing, the digital piece, the whole components to, to, really to, to, make it. And so those are my, my two takes on 2025.

Julie Milroy (01:43:57.892)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:44:18.294)
Minds evolution for sure. Our industry is evolving a ton, whatever all the directions that we talked about today. if you're not ready to evolve, you're going to struggle and you got to be open minded. And I think evolution of our industry as a whole is going to continue. I know it's going to continue and to be open minded and be on board with evolution is going to be key.

for brands.

Jessie Ott (01:44:50.803)
Yeah, anyone else?

Kate Jerkens (01:44:53.549)
I'm struggling with a word. Digital. Good.

Julie Milroy (01:44:53.656)
I'll just throw out digital.

Jessie Ott (01:44:55.751)
Okay. Well, you can do a sentence if that's easier.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:44:57.3)
it off.

Julie Milroy (01:44:59.746)
Ha ha.

Kate Jerkens (01:45:03.69)
it's a new era. That's sort of like what's in my head. It just feels like we just entered a new era. There's just a lot of disruption this year. And we still don't know what's going to happen next year because we also have the possibility of, and I'm not trying to make it be political, but tariffs and all sorts of things that could wreak havoc on some brands in Mexico. That's going to change the tequila industry.

Julie Milroy (01:45:11.331)
Mm-hmm.

Jessie Ott (01:45:21.749)
Terps.

25 % from Canada and Mexico is the current one.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:45:28.379)
That'll be challenging.

Kate Jerkens (01:45:32.614)
And then if the tariffs or tele-tariff continue and go back for UK and EU, for many of us that are distributing in there, that's going to be challenging. that's one piece, right? But it's just a new era. It started this year, but this is where we're at with all of There's just so much newness and unknown.

Jessie Ott (01:45:38.217)
Yep. A challenge.

Julie Milroy (01:45:45.892)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Milroy (01:45:51.94)
Like even just the last few weeks of this year.

Kate Jerkens (01:45:55.53)
Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:45:59.134)
Well, and when you kind of look at it that that way, Kate, too, it's like I saw I didn't I didn't read into it or anything like that, but I saw either was on we're good morning America people. So we kind of get the overview and then we go on with our day and get local news. But I think they were saying that personal debt is at an all time high. And then what Julie, you saying things like you're kind of feeling this year was sort of this.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:46:05.654)
you

Jessie Ott (01:46:25.021)
right before the crash kind of things. I know we're not in recession. keep saying we are, but the indicators aren't there. But with the tariffs potentially happening and with this momentum of maybe next year could be a challenge and then all this consumer debt, there's gonna be a crash of something of some kind, right? Because the last time it happened, people were over leveraged in real estate.

Kate Jerkens (01:46:50.218)
real estate.

Jessie Ott (01:46:50.313)
Cash is king. Cash is king. You can put a $10 bill down and buy a $300,000 home. know, like it was just nuts. It was crazy. So I wonder too, like how, how does that debt impact us in our industry? Because we see premiumization.

Julie Milroy (01:46:57.23)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Milroy (01:47:05.292)
It's already impacting. mean, it's,

Kate Jerkens (01:47:06.634)
Well, it's impacting our distributors. Money is so expensive and they have too much product on their floors and they can't afford it. So then they can't afford to make bigger purchases And the debt, it's affecting retail store owners. They maybe would have bought your 100 case deal last year, but this year they literally just, can't. A, they've run out of room because they've bought all those case deals that are not moving as fast as they'd hoped, but they also don't

Caitlyn LuBell (01:47:16.224)
you

Jessie Ott (01:47:28.671)
They can't.

Kate Jerkens (01:47:35.326)
the credit for it.

Julie Milroy (01:47:36.548)
Mm hmm. The cost of goods, you know, you bring up a great point, Jessie, is consumer debt, you know, and I think at a certain point, that's going to catch up. But you see it. I mean, you see people, you know, choosing down in their wines and their spirits buying less. I mean, I see it even with my friends. And it's almost like it's become this trend is like, everybody's analyzing, you know, their itemized

Jessie Ott (01:47:37.513)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:48:06.402)
receipts from when they're out at restaurants and whatnot and nickel and dining. I'm talking, my restaurateurs are like, this is like been the worst year ever for them, you know? And people are just like, I, you know, I do it myself. I'm like, you know, let's see if we can get out of here, you know, under a hundred dollars for the two of us, you know? And it's, and it's unfortunate because the restaurateurs, know, their margins are already so...

Caitlyn LuBell (01:48:17.332)
Yeah, same in New York.

Julie Milroy (01:48:33.342)
low that they're the first to hit it and or to feel it. And with the retailers, they're not doing big case quantity. mean, everybody that's doing price reduction and from the distributor side, we're like, no, no, no, no, you cannot add case quantity. Like you've got to do it at case one or like three cases max. mean, even the big guys, they're not going to take.

Kate Jerkens (01:48:41.846)
you

Julie Milroy (01:49:00.9)
hundreds of cases anymore. So I think we've started feeling it in 2024 and in 2025 where, you know, it's got everything that goes up has to come down at some point. And I feel like there's just been lots of cushion. So we haven't had to come down, but eventually, you know, the bottom is going to fall out.

Kate Jerkens (01:49:13.183)
Sure.

Jessie Ott (01:49:13.247)
Yeah.

Jessie Ott (01:49:25.397)
Yeah, yeah, you know, when COVID first happened, my wife was going through breast cancer, but she was going to her occupational therapist. And so it was interesting to hear from a nurse's perspective about, you know, COVID and how long it's going to take to get back to normal. And she's like, 2025. It's going to be 2025. And I feel like while we're here,

It's 2025. I mean, is our supply chain better? I don't know, the prices aren't going down. So, you know, what's gonna happen? What's gonna have to happen to make those prices go down? I mean, I know they're gonna continue to decrease the interest rates that will help, that will help ease some pricing, but there's gotta be other things that are putting pressure on that. That we're gonna, you know, we're gonna have to see how that plays out in 2025.

Kate Jerkens (01:50:20.06)
Pressure. Pressure.

Jessie Ott (01:50:24.361)
This has been fun. So fun. It certainly exceeded even my expectations and, you know, my excitement behind it. Does anybody have any final thing that they'd like to say to the audience or just as a recap or something that they haven't quite hit on yet?

Kate Jerkens (01:50:25.831)
Definitely.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:50:48.008)
I just want to thank you because this is, love talking to no disrespect to men, but other smart women in the industry. I think it's so much fun and to learn from you guys and others daily is just so important. And the more we keep talking about the industry and the challenges and how to evolve them, I think the stronger we're all going to be together. So, so thank you, Josie. mean, this is.

Kate Jerkens (01:50:49.674)
Okay.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:51:16.074)
This is the kind of things that we need to be doing more of and, you know, banning together to evolve in the right direction and help each other and support each other. So thank you. I'm all about the girl power and I wear a female founded business and you know, it's listen, I love others in the industry, men and others, but but it's just really nice. So it's great to be in this space. So thank you all.

Jessie Ott (01:51:19.476)
Mm-hmm.

Kate Jerkens (01:51:41.928)
Agreed. Agreed. Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:51:43.32)
I agree. feel that. Thank you, Jessie. And it's been amazing, you know, talking with all of you and hearing your insights. So, you know, thank you very much for that. And I think just my takeaway, you know, that I would love to leave for the listeners is if you want to connect or learn more, I'm on LinkedIn and, you know, happy to continue the conversations. I always like to.

Erica Duecy (01:51:45.695)
Seconded. Thank you so much, Jessie.

Jessie Ott (01:51:49.747)
Yeah.

Julie Milroy (01:52:11.46)
put myself out there and love, you know, random reach outs. And, you know, like you said, Caitlyn, we've got to keep having these conversations.

Kate Jerkens (01:52:20.042)
Thank

Caitlyn LuBell (01:52:20.148)
Yeah, yeah, and BoozBiz, please, I mean, just shameless little plug here. We are continuing to grow and evolve and our team is growing and we just love helping the industry and helping people. so, so please feel free to follow BoozBiz on LinkedIn and reach out to us if you're hiring or looking for an opportunity. Like we're here to help everybody. So, and we love ideas too. So any outside the box thinking we want to hear about it.

Kate Jerkens (01:52:33.13)
you

Erica Duecy (01:52:50.133)
Definitely. And if you aren't following or listening to Business of Drinks, please do. And for everyone here, I will be following you on LinkedIn right now if we're not already connected.

Kate Jerkens (01:52:52.362)
Yay! Same, same. Thanks, y'all. Appreciate it. It was nice to meet everybody and women keep drinking whiskey. We can do this. That's all I got.

Jessie Ott (01:52:54.868)
You

Caitlyn LuBell (01:52:55.508)
Yes.

Julie Milroy (01:52:56.002)
the following.

close.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:52:59.796)
Yes.

Jessie Ott (01:53:01.887)
Yeah, no, your podcast is great, Erica. It really is. It's well done. Yep.

Erica Duecy (01:53:04.503)
thank you so much.

Julie Milroy (01:53:12.932)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:53:12.948)
Yes.

Jessie Ott (01:53:12.959)
That's right. Woohoo! I asked for Fawn's book for Christmas, so I'm excited.

Erica Duecy (01:53:13.867)
Yeah, you're here.

Kate Jerkens (01:53:18.026)
Yay! it's so good! It's so, good. I love it.

Erica Duecy (01:53:18.547)
yay.

Julie Milroy (01:53:19.108)
Awesome.

Jessie Ott (01:53:21.489)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. All right. Well, maybe we need to regroup in six months or next quarter and, and do a little like, how'd we do? Okay. All right. Let's do it. All right. Excellent. Thank you. Is I wait, wait, before you go, how is everybody doing with their uploading?

Julie Milroy (01:53:25.912)
Thank you.

Kate Jerkens (01:53:28.316)
Yeah, let's do it!

Erica Duecy (01:53:29.303)
That'll be fun.

Julie Milroy (01:53:32.098)
Mid-year? Yeah, that'd be fun.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:53:33.001)
Yeah!

Erica Duecy (01:53:33.046)
Yeah.

Kate Jerkens (01:53:33.118)
Let's do it. I love it. In. Okay. Thanks y'all. Appreciate it. Bye bye.

Julie Milroy (01:53:38.488)
Thanks everyone. Have a great day. Bye.

Erica Duecy (01:53:39.105)
Take care. Bye.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:53:39.754)
Thank you.

Kate Jerkens (01:53:46.58)
Mine's at 81%.

Julie Milroy (01:53:46.914)
Mine is, mine says 99%. It stopped at 99.

Caitlyn LuBell (01:53:49.94)
Yeah, mine's 99.

Erica Duecy (01:53:50.229)
Yeah, mine says 99.

Jessie Ott (01:53:52.081)
Okay, I'm at 58. No, I can't see 56. So just if you want to walk away and leave the tab open, I'm just going to walk away and I'll stop recording. I don't need to be recording here, but.