[REPLAY] Athletic Brewing Owners Bill Shufelt and John Walker

Welcome to Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST! 👏 Watch on YouTube! https://youtu.be/SeNY5qttuvI

In Honor of http://internationalbeerday.com/ !!  Aug 2! 🍺 🍻 

My name is Jessie Ott, the Host of this Podcast which is all about Beverage Innovation. I talk with Innovation Pioneers from Agriculture to Glass.🥂

📢I talk🎙️with John Walker and Bill Shufelt with Athletic Brewing. Bill, who was living a busy life within the finance sector, and who also loved working out became tired of drinking alcohol with all the after-effects that come along with it.  👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂  😁

So, in 2014 Bill started asking questions as to what’s available for Non-Alcoholic beer, which he ended up missing the most of any other alcoholic option. Well, nothing existed out there, and it was a clear and open market to find their voice. 

Fast forward to 2017, Bill put out an advertisement on ProBrewer describing his idea as the most innovative sector in craft brewing. John responded to the advertisement and the rest they say is history! 

These two individuals came together at the right time to discover the science behind how they brew great-tasting beer without alcohol which was a feat to conquer. Once that came together their likeminded vision came together and they created the fastest growing and now the largest non-alcoholic brewery in the US. It was named Brewery of the Year at VinePair in 2022. Upside Dawn Golden was placed on domestic flights on JetBlue and launched Geralt’s Gold, which was Helles-inspired in collaboration with Netflix and The Witcher.

They are a small business with very creative ideas and names for their brews and their e-commerce platform offers a chance to taste new brews developed by their brewing teams in both San Diego and Connecticut.

Bill & John are true outdoorsmen and love many activities in nature. So much so, they donate 2% of all sales up to $2 Million to their “Two for the Trails Program” to rehabilitate and protect trails and parks for generations to come.

 
As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “The world belongs to the energetic.” 

Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes!

Resources:
The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday

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Chapters

• 0:00 Start
• 0:18 Subscribe To Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST
• 0:23 Welcome Bill & John!
• 1:04 Where they are Calling From
• 1:31 Where they are from
• 2:03 What got Bill in the business?
• 4:56 Advice from Bill's Wife
• 5:15 Jessie's Long Winded Support of Bill not finding NA Beer in the Market
• 7:13 How John got in the biz
• 8:05 UK Non Alc advanced to US
• 11:28 John's Transition to CT
• 12:01 First Brewing Location
• 13:25 Learning NA Brewing a Major Undertaking
• 14:50 Resources
• 16:57 Connecting with Other NA Bev Peeps
• 21:56 Selling Athletic Brews in Local Breweries
• 22:34 People Stay n Resto/Bars Longer with NA Options
• 24:01 Other Interesting Stats on Pple that Drink Both Alc & No Alc
• 25:43 How Restaurants are leaving Money on the Table
• 27:43 The World Belongs to the Energetic Ralph Waldo Emerson
• 29:57 Key Mentors
• 34:01 San Diegeo Location Opening
• 37:25 eCommerce Biz
• 39:56 They Have A Great Team
• 41:09 Tasting Rooms
• 41:59 State Fair
• 44:38 Pain Points
• 46:40 A Team Favorite Book
• 47:28 Passions Outside of Work
• 48:45 Two for the Trails Program
• 53:29 Thoughts on Making Beer with Alcohol?
• 54:49 Current Flagship Beers
• 56:58 Are They in all 50 States?
• 58:33 NA Beer Market in the UK
• 1:01:06 How Their Journey Came Together
• 1:01:47 Mentors

Transcript

00:00:04:20 - 00:00:18:20
Jessie
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessie, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass.

00:00:18:20 - 00:00:23:21
Unknown
Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes.

00:00:23:21 - 00:00:42:06
Jessie
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jesse UT and I'm speaking with John Walker and Bill Shoe Felt with Ethernet brewing today. I'm so excited to have you both on the show. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to spend with me. I really appreciate it.

00:00:42:08 - 00:00:44:09
Bill
Thanks for having me. For having us. Yeah.

00:00:44:11 - 00:00:46:12
Jessie
So the that of course, you know,

00:00:46:12 - 00:01:01:02
Jessie
I was telling Bill and John earlier, right before we started recording that their company has been brought up three or four times throughout the year on my podcast because obviously it's beverage innovation, but they're also the leader of, of what they're doing in the nonalcoholic beer space.

00:01:01:02 - 00:01:04:06
Jessie
So I'm super pumped to hear their story today.

00:01:04:06 - 00:01:08:15
Jessie
So where are you both calling from? You want to start, Bill?

00:01:08:17 - 00:01:20:17
Bill
Well, I'm calling from Connecticut. We're we're both in Connecticut on the East Coast. We do have during operations in Connecticut and San Diego, but okay.

00:01:20:17 - 00:01:24:23
Jessie
So you do have some some production in San Diego?

00:01:25:01 - 00:01:27:10
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. About half of that comes out.

00:01:27:10 - 00:01:28:10
Jessie
I wondered about that.

00:01:28:12 - 00:01:34:23
Jessie
Okay, So you're both calling from Connecticut. Bill, where are you from originally?

00:01:35:01 - 00:01:45:13
Bill
We're both from Connecticut. Yeah. So I was although I was working in Connecticut at the time, so to stay local to me, John was very far from Connecticut.

00:01:45:15 - 00:02:01:10
John
Yeah, So I grew up in Connecticut, born and raised and in a restaurant in Madison. And then I was in New Mexico when Bill and I connected and moved back here to start athletic with Bill in 2017.

00:02:01:12 - 00:02:02:06
Jessie
Oh, okay.

00:02:02:05 - 00:02:15:08
Jessie
so Bill, talk about a little bit about your career and how you kind of got into the why of getting into nonalcoholic beer.

00:02:15:10 - 00:02:16:00
Bill
Yeah, I

00:02:16:01 - 00:02:43:23
Bill
I definitely never, ever would have thought I'd be qualified to be in the food world, and especially not the beverage world. I was never like the most sophisticated taster, but an unbelievable love of great food and great beverage. And I really just didn't want to be an entrepreneur either. I never had any desire to be an entrepreneur. It wasn't until this need emerged so authentically in my lifestyle, that I was like, it was an idea I couldn’t put down.

00:02:44:01 - 00:02:56:01
Bill
I wasn't someone with 100 ideas and chose one. I felt like one idea and just being so obsessed with it and that really. Yeah. So and.

00:02:56:03 - 00:02:56:16
Jessie
That's fantastic.

00:02:56:20 - 00:03:17:13
Bill
Has really emerged very authentically out of my lifestyle. I mean, I was just kind of go, go, go modern at adult. I worked in finance, so I was eating healthier I was working out more. I was about to get married and my life was just maturing and I wanted a drink and adult beverage that kept up with that life.

00:03:17:15 - 00:03:47:10
Bill
Like I loved everything about adult beverages except for the alcohol and like that it would hit you for days after it would effect your recovery from workouts it affects your sleep. It affects your productivity at work. But I wanted a awesome beverage that I could consume socially with colleagues that would be a great meal pairing. And you know, I'd become so accustomed to having amazing craft beer that when I did stop drinking, there was a huge void out there in the world.

00:03:47:16 - 00:04:08:13
Bill
In my world. And then I started to look around and then realize, Wow, 50% of adults in these bars and restaurants and everyone really aren't drinking much, if anything, ever. And so I kind of realized that, wow, this is a just really good underserved community out there. And it started to snowball from there.

00:04:10:14 - 00:04:19:14
Jessie
Were you aware of any other nonalcoholic offerings at the time besides O’Doul’s.

00:04:19:16 - 00:04:41:20
Bill
They'd really been somewhere where the whole beer and adult beverage world and like there were 10,000 wineries, there's 10,000 craft brewers, there's all this variety in the alcoholic side. On the nonalcoholic beer side. It was the least innovative category in the entire grocery store for like the last 30 years where like the whole grocery store had changed this.

00:04:42:00 - 00:05:02:05
Bill
It was the same products from like the early 1990s, the eighties, the seventies on the shelf, and the nonalcoholic beer category. And it got no attention not only in product, but like how they were marketed too. And it drove me nuts and I really started trying to order nonalcoholic beer from all around the world and didn't find anything too impressive.

00:05:02:05 - 00:05:15:16
Bill
And I was like, wow, someone should make this. And I just kept saying that like, someone should do this. And finally my wife told me she was like, You should do it. And so.

00:05:16:04 - 00:05:35:21
Jessie
Yeah, I'll tell you my only real experience of nonalcoholic beer and then we'll switch over to you, John In 2019, I went to Bahrain for a wine festival at the on the Navy base. And so my my wife and I and some friends, we ended up I was like, okay, we're going to spend three days in these places.

00:05:35:21 - 00:05:57:11
Jessie
Are you with me or not? Because if you're not, don't come because it's not. It's going to be brutal. And so after that, we went to we went to Greece and went to Santorini, and then we went to Sicily for three days, and then we ended up in Rome, which was absolutely amazing. And because I'm gluten free, I mean, I can drink a little beer.

00:05:57:11 - 00:06:19:15
Jessie
It's fine. I just can't drink a lot of it. And so I found the highest rated pizza place, and it was right by the Vatican, which is what we did that day. And it was it was so amazing. And they they did have, you know, the main brands over there, the Peroni and whatever that did have some nonalcoholic beer.

00:06:19:15 - 00:06:40:09
Jessie
But but I don't think that they were really exporting it or anything like that. It was just sort of serving. It may have been in a few countries in in Europe, but is nothing that was ever available in the United States. And and this is gluten free, not nonalcoholic. So, you know, I mean, the expansion of like what offerings might be there, I agree.

00:06:40:09 - 00:07:05:14
Jessie
They just it just wasn't there. I think I think there is a22 brands of gluten free that were technically available at that time. So, you know, nonalcoholic was in that kind of in that same that same space. And I think it's become a little bit more prevalent in Europe now. But certainly you guys put that on the map in this country for sure.

00:07:05:16 - 00:07:06:15
John
Thank you.

00:07:06:17 - 00:07:25:01
Jessie
And so anyway, that's a long winded way of saying I'm I get it. I totally get it. So so, John, kind of tell us about, you know, your experience and and how you got into the our world and and then how you connected with Bill.

00:07:25:03 - 00:07:39:22
John
Yeah. So I grew up in food and beverage, literally a family owned restaurant. And you know, I was making salads when I was a and doing all sorts of things that probably are not advisable anymore with child labor laws.

00:07:40:03 - 00:07:43:14
Jessie
But we didn't have seatbelts at three. So you know.

00:07:43:16 - 00:07:44:13
John
That's true.

00:07:44:15 - 00:07:46:01
Jessie
But, you know.

00:07:46:03 - 00:08:20:10
John
Family, family business and it was great. And long story short, I found myself in New Mexico right around that, right around 2002 and was there for a long time in the food and beverage space and wound up finding my way to a brewery called Second Street Brewery, which is still there were one of the original craft brewers they opened in 1996 and I kind of learned how to brew there with the brewmaster rod and some friends and just quickly fell in love with brewing.

00:08:20:12 - 00:08:46:03
John
It was manual, it was creative, it was scientific, The community was awesome and really inviting and overall it was very positive. So all of that kind of led me to declare that I had a career all of a sudden with great prior. Prior to I had convinced myself that that never would have happened. So it was kind of a nice yeah, relieving.

00:08:46:07 - 00:08:51:20
John
And also to find yourself in a place where you're where you're feeling good about what you're doing, right.

00:08:51:22 - 00:08:54:03
Jessie
Finding your place, it's hard.

00:08:54:05 - 00:09:21:00
John
Yes. And so a long story short, I was kind of scanning the scanning the map and the world of beer for something that was fun and exciting and challenging, but also near my family, which was up in the Northeast. And it just so happened I found this this ad on, I think, Pro Brewer that said the most innovative sector in craft is hiring in Connecticut.

00:09:21:03 - 00:09:53:21
John
I was like, Oh, like all those things are wonderful. Well, that's cool. And Bill and I hopped on the phone and it was then that he disclosed that the most innovative part was nonalcoholic part. And I was like, Oh, that's fascinating. But, you know, it was met with like, don't hang up, hear me out. And so I you know, I bought into it, I think partially because I grew up with nonalcoholic beer around.

00:09:53:21 - 00:10:14:18
John
I grew up in food and beverage and I've you know, I see all of the beverages, all the occasions and all the people. And at the end of the day, you want to make inviting environment for anybody and everybody. And so having that nonalcoholic beer was always important in my life. You know, my dad would drink it after a run and talk about how refreshing it was, and it was filled with carbohydrates.

00:10:14:23 - 00:10:40:09
John
I was like, Oh, that's cool. But Bill's like, Nobody's innovated in the sector in so long and I just want a good beer. And I was like, That's that's totally reasonable. And I, you know, after being a craft for about seven years, at that point, I was thinking about it and thinking, you know, it's kind of wild that the whole craft movement failed to recognize this, this pocket.

00:10:40:11 - 00:10:49:01
John
So it was equally challenging and exciting and I was happy to join Bill after we met up.

00:10:49:03 - 00:11:13:06
Jessie
Well, you know, you guys hit the mark right at the right time, too, because the slow and know and this movement of, you know, people wanting to me and the younger generation wanting options and obviously we all do it at our age. You know like like Bill was talking about, you get really affected by alcohol not just for one day, but possibly too, you know, just not even having that much.

00:11:13:06 - 00:11:34:13
Jessie
So I 100%, when you're outside and you're you're sweating, whether you're doing yard work, gardening, whatever it is, the first thing you want is definitely a beer. Really cold, cold beer. And so, yeah, I that's awesome. So, so then what happened, John? Did you, did you just kind of pack up and then move back to Connecticut?

00:11:34:15 - 00:12:07:21
John
Yeah. So, you know, I, we took about four months to kind of close up our, our family operation in New Mexico, and you don't give ample time to the team over there. So obviously very good friends with them. So took about four months to transition over to Connecticut and move the family out. And once I landed in, I think August or September of 2017, we we met in Stratford at the place where we signed our first leased.

00:12:07:23 - 00:12:26:11
John
It was a 10,000 square foot warehouse with nothing but a pile of tires and a dingy office. And that was going to be the the R&D hub for the next period of time until we moved that operation And to my parents garage.

00:12:26:13 - 00:12:28:21
Jessie
It must be a big garage.

00:12:28:22 - 00:12:58:01
John
It was pretty one car garage. So it was pretty soon we we we knew that you know, we had a lot of work to do because we couldn't just brew nonalcoholic beer and we want to make something that was really special and really had purpose and celebrated all the flavors and characteristics in craft beer And, you know, so we kind of tore everything down, tore all the walls down and bought some home brewing equipment and started there.

00:12:58:04 - 00:13:19:17
John
So we literally spent the next 6 to 8 months doing Homebrew batch after Homebrew batch and splitting each batch into three to trial different treatments of each brew until we found our process. And so that's, you know, there was a lot of time spent together trying to navigate how to do that and kind of thinking about the business.

00:13:19:19 - 00:13:35:22
Jessie
Yeah, well, when you're breaking into an a completely new field as you are, you know, not having brewing good quality beers with no alcohol must have been a huge undertaking and challenge to try to figure out what the science was behind that.

00:13:36:00 - 00:13:43:16
John
Yes. Yeah, it definitely was. But it was fun. It was you know, I think Phil was really excited about. Oh, yeah.

00:13:43:18 - 00:13:45:23
Jessie
There it is. The picture.

00:13:46:00 - 00:13:46:12
John
That's the way.

00:13:46:18 - 00:13:51:06
Jessie
We get some coolers and some kegs. Just awesome.

00:13:51:08 - 00:13:57:11
John
Yeah, it was literally homebrew equipment. I welded that that little keg all myself and brought it from New Mexico.

00:13:57:15 - 00:14:03:01
Jessie
And that's cool. That's really cool. Yeah.

00:14:03:07 - 00:14:17:22
John
So, you know, we really did. We kind of tore it down to its roots and looked at each ingredient and thought about how we could make the same experience with the same ingredients, but minus the alcohol.

00:14:18:00 - 00:14:23:22
Jessie
So is that a process you want to talk about, or is that kind of proprietary? Proprietary?

00:14:24:00 - 00:14:51:05
John
It's definitely a proprietary process, you know, and took a long time to come up with. And honestly, we've got a few processes now and we're really excited about all of them equally. And, you know, it just goes to show that there's so much you can do in brewing and there's like thousands of rabbit holes you can go down in brewing in the ingredients, in the brewing process, and you can tackle so many different things and create so many unique beverages with these amazing ingredients.

00:14:51:07 - 00:15:11:01
Jessie
So what kind of resources were you able to find or use to kind of help you to help guide you through this process? Was there anything that was done, you know, years and years and hundreds of years ago, or is it just all kind of trial and error and what you learned along the way?

00:15:11:03 - 00:15:17:09
John
I think Bill can start because he he started looking at this well before I did.

00:15:17:11 - 00:15:41:01
Bill
Yeah. We definitely read a bunch of brewing textbooks. I needed to get like a foundational base because I had never brewed beer, period. So I wanted to see if it was possible. And I really both needed to learn a lot myself. So I had to get a head start on learning myself and then then had to share that with like any ideas with someone like John who would actually now say, may work.

00:15:41:01 - 00:16:08:18
Bill
And then we just the learning curve just went exponential. When I teamed up with John. At that point, I bring it to the real world, but we knew we had of like a really major disruption on our hand because adult beverages up until that point had really been alcoholic adult beverages for 5000 years. The concept of great nonalcoholic beverages had really just been tinkered with around the fringes.

00:16:08:20 - 00:16:42:21
Bill
I think soup had a really nice offering and it was a pioneer in the spirit side a few years before we got going. But the beer world was really totally uncharted territory and so kind of talking about a really big disruption, changing habits have been place for thousands of years. So part of the education was on the product side, the like we knew we had a huge real world education hurdle also, so we had to bring it to the trade, bring it to distributors, talk to vendors about, and then we had to get it out to the media and like thought leaders and things like that.

00:16:42:23 - 00:16:58:10
Bill
So it's been really exciting to see now that the products are more available, like finding the see like thought leaders comment on the trend too, and really give as a second wave within society. So it's been really exciting to see all that unfold.

00:16:58:12 - 00:17:22:14
Jessie
So given the the current the existing nonalcoholic, you know, liquor, beer, wine, spirits, whatever it was, were you able to connect? Was it Brennan was see the VP and Bill Gormley. I see that you're also on the Adult Non Alcoholic Beverage Association. I believe he's on that as well.

00:17:22:16 - 00:17:42:06
Bill
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. All good people. There's actually 90 brands in one one and then there's about 140 US nonalcoholic beer brands now, which is crazy because there was like seven or eight probably when we started and maybe only a few that weren't imported.

00:17:42:08 - 00:18:02:17
Jessie
So. Max Green with Leader Brewing, I don't know if you've met him or heard of him, but he was my second interview, second or third interview on the podcast this year. And he he attributes everything to you guys because he he said he brewed on and off for like 17 years, but he was just tired of the alcohol.

00:18:02:19 - 00:18:25:13
Jessie
And so, you know, once you guys did it, he was like, okay, yeah, now now I know it's possible to have nonalcoholic, really good brew. And so he started his, his, you know, he started brewing again. You know, it became a new thing for him to kind of discover and and he's located down here in Palm Bay, just east of Orlando.

00:18:25:15 - 00:18:44:12
Jessie
But yeah, he definitely attributes and I'm sure that's what happened to many of these smaller breweries that are like, yeah, we don't want the alcohol. Finally, someone's made it and made it good and it is a possibility. So I'm sure you're the inspiration for a lot of these companies to kind of pop up and try it.

00:18:44:14 - 00:19:11:04
Bill
Yeah, definitely. Wonderfully. I haven't been able to try their beer yet, but definitely want to. And yeah, I think beers are served on over 600 breweries and mostly to some like them brewing some to go to all the awesome safety and regulatory things to make nonalcoholic beer. So yeah, it can be an easy option for local breweries to and to be able to just like serve other nonalcoholic beers as well.

00:19:11:06 - 00:19:18:07
Jessie
That's fantastic. So how do you distribute that? Is it through cans or kegs or by other means?

00:19:18:11 - 00:19:24:16
Bill
Yeah, Yeah, mostly through cans. We have launched kegs pretty recently that.

00:19:24:18 - 00:19:34:01
Jessie
Okay. I would think that would be like the most cost effective for both parties.

00:19:34:03 - 00:19:56:00
John
Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity there. We think we're excited to see what happens. We started at pretty small scale, kind of local to our breweries to fill out the process because it's such a unique process where, you know, it requires a lot of consideration in terms of food safety and sanitation all the way to the end user, which is, you know, the tap in the bar and the bartender.

00:19:56:02 - 00:20:07:23
John
And so there's some educational hurdles that we need to make sure are met so that we can do it thoughtfully and, you know, just make sure that the product is as good as it was the day it left the building.

00:20:08:01 - 00:20:30:04
Jessie
Yeah. And, you know, I interviewed the beer guys there, a couple of guys that had a radio show and was syndicated all over the country. And they're based in Atlanta. And but they focus on some legislation that was happening in Georgia. But also what what else is going on in the in the country is, of course, they they they like your beers and they they no, no.

00:20:30:05 - 00:21:00:19
Jessie
Of all both of you. But, you know, it's the it's the it's the challenge and change that's happened over the last, I don't know, maybe ten, 15 years of a local brewery might be the state of Georgia or maybe in Atlanta to 20 of them in all different pockets. So, you know, I guess in the sense for you guys, that's a great opportunity because probably none of them are doing or very you know, maybe 1% of them are doing nonalcoholic beer.

00:21:00:19 - 00:21:26:15
Jessie
So I would think that would be a great opportunity for you guys to get distribution. And, you know, it's not just Atlanta. It's everywhere. I mean, there's I don't know, four or five breweries in in Dallas area. You know, every every community has one or two probably or more. So I would think would be a really big opportunity, you know, as a as a nonalcoholic beer option to get into all these other breweries.

00:21:26:15 - 00:21:37:11
Jessie
So that, again, it's a cost effective measure for them. They don't have to do all the the work behind the scenes in science and whatnot. Eight months of trial for sure.

00:21:37:13 - 00:21:46:15
Bill
Yeah, we're we're definitely big fans attending the beer guys. We've known them for years like they were one of the first podcast to take a chance and have us on, which was pretty cool.

00:21:46:17 - 00:21:52:04
Jessie
Oh yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, they're great, aren't they? Awesome. Yeah. The good dude are.

00:21:52:05 - 00:22:28:16
Bill
Still in touch with them and, well, a week ago. But in terms of local brews too, it's not only like not having to come up with the food safety and regulatory stuff to do nonalcoholic beer because it isn't often worth the time for a small burrito in Boston. All that stuff. But it also helps keep people at their tasting rooms and breweries longer because another group of people we found to be one person not drinking or they have a driver or, you know, people might only be in the mood for one alcoholic drink, but they might have two or three drinks and stay much longer.

00:22:28:18 - 00:22:54:05
Bill
So if everyone's having a good time, that same lesson kind of applies to bars and restaurants also over and over again from bartenders that people stay longer because they're at the bars where people they see all the time, like people who might last have a second and third drink because it's not like Spark. Yeah. So it's one thing that surprised us the most.

00:22:54:07 - 00:23:09:21
Bill
Some people would say alcohol and often in the same session we think that all the time. I think it's we did a survey and 30% of our customers said they were to alcohol and not alcohol In the same sessions, which was shocking to me.

00:23:09:23 - 00:23:30:22
Jessie
Yeah, that's a lot. 30%. And that's been brought up too on the podcast and how that's interesting that they stay longer. But it makes sense too, because if you're going to go have a craft brew, a lot of times, you know, we grew up with three point beer, at least I did in Iowa. And so, you know, a lot of these are five, ten, 10%.

00:23:30:22 - 00:23:50:09
Jessie
And you don't you may or may not realize it. So if you can if you can have a nonalcoholic beer in between and spend the extra 45 minutes to an hour, it makes total sense. You know, for for people that want to hang out a little longer, order another, you know, order of cheese curds, which is what I would do.

00:23:50:11 - 00:24:00:09
Jessie
So you're ordering food, you're staying long, you're spending more money. I mean, it makes it makes sense. But wow, 30%, that's really high. That's interesting.

00:24:00:10 - 00:24:23:12
Bill
Sure. Yeah. Some other another one that caught me off guard was people who drink both nonalcoholic beer and alcoholic beer are 30% more likely to go out in any given week than people who just drink alcohol, beer and which and when they go out, they spend an average of 15% more per check, which are like two crazy stats to me.

00:24:23:14 - 00:24:26:14
Bill
Those both for my blood, my mind.

00:24:26:16 - 00:24:50:22
Jessie
Yeah, that just totally blows my cheese curd and allergy wonder, right? Oh, they're so yummy. But you know, I'm from Iowa and Wisconsin has really good cheese curds, so it's like a it's a thing. I had another podcast with the gentleman from Wisconsin. We we did two different we mix two cocktails and we tried cheese curds with both of them is fun.

00:24:51:01 - 00:24:57:14
Jessie
Anyway, that's like my signature, I guess I have a love affair with the cheese curds.

00:24:57:16 - 00:24:58:21
Bill
That sounds amazing.

00:24:58:22 - 00:25:22:17
Jessie
Yeah, I have them in the freezer at all times, so I can just pop them in whenever. That's how bad the addiction is. So. Wow. So I wonder how that happens. Like what? What there. Is there any more intel on how they're spinning? 15% more and going out more often?

00:25:22:19 - 00:25:34:03
Bill
I think they probably their groups probably hang around at bars and restaurants longer because there's not someone who's like down the road who doesn't have a drink, would be like, guys.

00:25:34:05 - 00:25:36:10
Jessie
Can't have another Coke. Yeah.

00:25:36:12 - 00:25:38:21
Bill
Yeah. Things are quite.

00:25:38:23 - 00:26:08:00
Jessie
Well I guess too, if you're if you're, if you're changing and I just. Claire Warner, I just interviewed her this week or this past week or so. Her she's very much behind the low and no movement period in terms of health, health for the bartenders, whatnot. And she's done a lot in that direction to help the quality of life, which is I think is a huge accomplishment.

00:26:08:02 - 00:26:31:07
Jessie
And her point is, well, restaurants are losing literally losing money if they don't have a non alcoholic beverage on their menu because they're either going to get water or maybe soda water or a soda, you know, versus paying extra money for, you know, a brew. So, you know, I mean, I guess that I guess it all kind of makes sense, right?

00:26:31:07 - 00:26:46:17
Jessie
Because if you're going to be buying a $10 or $12 a non alcoholic drink, whatever it is, versus a soda, you're you're gaining like $10 per check for per for per drink. So I guess that makes sense.

00:26:46:19 - 00:27:05:21
Bill
And we see it fluctuate weekdays and weekends too. So bars and restaurants that don't have a great nonalcoholic menu for weekends are probably a reason to make sure patrons of beers like these could potentially be some of their best selling weekday drinks. Overall.

00:27:05:23 - 00:27:35:17
Jessie
Yeah, and you know, I love the idea of how you were working out and you want to have a beer after. I mean, there's a whole market that really isn't there to tie in. Working out and having a cold brew somewhere like that could be a whole marketing aspect of it that, you know, Hey, you're at the gym, come come Monday nights, it's half priced, you know, nonalcoholic beers for, hey, you know, increase those carbs, get cooled down and and, you know, whatnot.

00:27:35:17 - 00:27:43:18
Jessie
So that that actually makes a lot of sense. That's pretty that that can be kind of neat, you know, in certain areas that would be open to it. I guess.

00:27:43:17 - 00:28:04:19
Jessie
So I see that you have a quote that says the world belongs to the Energetic by Ralph Waldo Emerson. So that's totally ties in to what you guys were saying about, you know, wanting to feel better, wanting to have an option to not drink, not drink alcohol, but still have that great taste.

00:28:04:19 - 00:28:07:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Try this out. Your quote.

00:28:07:20 - 00:28:19:08
Speaker 1
I don't want to take credit for it, but I definitely subscribe to it. But I. I can't take credit for.

00:28:19:10 - 00:28:20:08
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.

00:28:20:10 - 00:28:24:07
Speaker 1
Interesting. That's so funny.

00:28:24:09 - 00:28:29:11
Speaker 2
Oh, awesome. I Russell, I must have been an energetic weird.

00:28:29:15 - 00:28:32:02
Speaker 1
But I definitely.

00:28:32:04 - 00:28:32:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:28:32:15 - 00:28:58:15
Speaker 1
I'm definitely a huge believer in just like forward progress and like, I'm such an action oriented person. I always try to keep moving forward for sure.

00:28:58:17 - 00:29:01:07
Speaker 2
For sure. Yeah. I mean, we hear it.

00:29:01:08 - 00:29:05:17
Speaker 1
Often referred to and we think of it this way ourselves in a way where.

00:29:05:19 - 00:29:06:06
Speaker 2
You know, that.

00:29:06:06 - 00:29:11:04
Speaker 1
Moment in the day when you consume a nonalcoholic beverages, kind of like a line in the sand.

00:29:11:04 - 00:29:12:05
Speaker 2
Where you.

00:29:12:05 - 00:29:16:08
Speaker 1
Can no longer do a very large range of activities after that.

00:29:16:08 - 00:29:17:16
Speaker 2
Moment.

00:29:17:18 - 00:29:33:02
Speaker 1
And that could be work emails. It could be driving your family around, it could be working out, it could be like a whole range of activities that kind of fall off the table of options after you drink alcohol in the day. And so.

00:29:33:04 - 00:29:33:14
Speaker 2
I mean.

00:29:33:14 - 00:29:48:04
Speaker 1
It really does keep the horizons very high. And, you know, when people work out and do things to like all the gains happen in recovery and, you know, alcohol does affect sleep and as that is shown. So.

00:29:48:06 - 00:29:49:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, we.

00:29:49:16 - 00:30:34:16
Speaker 1
I think athletic periods definitely tend towards a very energetic lifestyle in general.

00:30:34:18 - 00:30:38:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. I don't know necessarily genre.

00:30:38:20 - 00:31:05:09
Speaker 1
I would point like any single person as a mentor that we are like someone we like use as a role model. I mean, everyone's got their great things and like people are all flawed in different ways too. So like we definitely try to learn from everyone in different ways. You know, we're both huge readers. We both love podcasts and like, especially like hearing about other people's stories and interpreters.

00:31:05:09 - 00:31:07:12
Speaker 2
So I've kind of taken.

00:31:07:12 - 00:36:04:08
Speaker 1
A lot of inspiration from so many different ways. But we are very thankful for people who have like paved the road in this industry. I think people like Ken Grossman and like that who have done so much work to make it easier to be in this industry we're very thankful for. But John, what do you think.

00:36:04:10 - 00:36:04:23
Speaker 2
Now is like.

00:36:04:23 - 00:36:13:23
Speaker 1
March 17th, 2020? It was like read as the world is closing down. We signed for this like huge facility.

00:36:14:01 - 00:36:14:18
Speaker 2
And.

00:36:14:20 - 00:36:43:21
Speaker 1
We made one hire. We made one hire on the West Coast. So we we made one hire on the West Coast. We had one teammate out there and like all our other teammates were on the East Coast. And so we were building this West Coast team from afar and some teammates drove across the country to go west. And it was a crazy story, but yeah, we quadrupled the size of that facility and capacity.

00:36:43:23 - 00:36:44:09
Speaker 2
Within.

00:36:44:09 - 00:37:14:05
Speaker 1
The first 18 months. And so that is a beast of a facility out there in San Diego. And then in the meantime, we got to building a bigger brewery on the East Coast, too, which John oversaw and 2021 and 2022 also.

00:37:14:07 - 00:37:15:13
Speaker 2
Hope.

00:37:15:15 - 00:37:24:00
Speaker 1
People definitely.

00:37:24:02 - 00:37:25:20
Speaker 2
For sure, but people in.

00:37:25:20 - 00:37:32:17
Speaker 1
2018, when we started packing and shipping our own beer on the Internet, people told us we are morons for trying to do ecommerce. They were.

00:37:32:17 - 00:37:33:14
Speaker 2
Like.

00:37:33:16 - 00:37:38:10
Speaker 1
No one is ever going to buy beer online and like, forget it.

00:37:38:12 - 00:37:40:08
Speaker 2
And we're like, okay, well.

00:37:40:08 - 00:37:50:17
Speaker 1
If people are going to pack and ship it, and before we knew it, it was like, yeah, it was like ten packages, 30 packages, 50 packages a day.

00:37:50:19 - 00:37:51:04
Speaker 2
And then all.

00:37:51:04 - 00:38:23:14
Speaker 1
Of a sudden it was like 200 packages a day and we're kind of like, Whoa, we've got a problem here. And also we were selling a ton of beer in California, and so we were like losing money on every order. And we had to get a new warehouse just to facilitate ecommerce packages. And so this e-commerce like really known was doing beverages on the ecommerce in 2018, like not only beer but like beverages and there was like a little water online and so that distribution and like customer interaction innovation was a pretty big one for us also.

00:38:23:17 - 00:38:48:16
Speaker 1
And yeah, we've been doing ecommerce for like two and a half years by the time COVID hit. So we were like ready to service the nation when COVID hit. In a way, they're.

00:38:48:17 - 00:38:54:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, it definitely helped. But we did do.

00:38:54:12 - 00:41:25:01
Speaker 1
Traditional beer distribution selling really well too. So we weren't super deep in the Northeast to start and now we're kind of going deep everywhere. We do tons of sampling, a lot of grocery activation, pouring beer for respond to races. So we kind of do the old school in the new school, both equally focused, I would say.

00:41:25:03 - 00:41:26:22
Speaker 2
And it's loud in Connecticut.

00:41:26:22 - 00:41:31:19
Speaker 1
So our original brewery did have a taproom and our goal is to.

00:41:31:21 - 00:41:32:22
Speaker 2
So we we've now.

00:41:32:22 - 00:41:48:06
Speaker 1
Transitioned from our original Connecticut brewery to the bigger one and we do plan to have another one over time. We just haven't built it out quite yet. So hopefully at some point in the future have a really nice tasting room. But right now we unfortunately don't have any tasting rooms.

00:41:48:08 - 00:41:48:20
Speaker 2
We have done.

00:41:48:20 - 00:41:52:07
Speaker 1
Some pop up tasting rooms around the country too, in different cities as well.

00:41:52:09 - 00:42:32:20
Speaker 2
So yeah, we've I love the idea.

00:42:32:20 - 00:42:37:15
Speaker 1
We've done a few, but not nearly enough. I definitely that's a great idea.

00:42:37:21 - 00:42:40:14
Speaker 2
I love it. But we have.

00:42:40:15 - 00:43:10:23
Speaker 1
Like big family friendly, food oriented occasions. Like it's definitely the wheelhouse.

00:43:11:01 - 00:43:12:02
Speaker 2
I love it.

00:43:12:04 - 00:43:41:23
Speaker 1
I would definitely personally go sample myself. I love state fair type food. So if you're throwing Atlantic beers in the mix too, like I would happily be there.

00:43:42:01 - 00:44:30:04
Speaker 2
Sounds amazing. I love it. Sounds amazing.

00:44:30:07 - 00:45:29:14
Speaker 1
I'm literally writing it down as we speak.

00:45:29:16 - 00:45:59:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think yeah.

00:45:59:13 - 00:46:09:19
Speaker 1
I feel like every day is kind of its own unique little challenge. I mean, which I think is probably standard in any like any interpret aerial endeavor.

00:46:09:21 - 00:46:10:21
Speaker 2
You know, the.

00:46:10:23 - 00:46:31:21
Speaker 1
I think the everyday challenges have gotten a little easier as we've grown. There was definitely like the first three years, John and I, it was like a sea of random intellectual stimuli and challenges like every day would just be totally random, equally challenging. There'd be 25 fires. We tried to put out like three of them in any given day.

00:46:31:23 - 00:46:35:22
Speaker 2
And so and especially.

00:46:35:22 - 00:46:38:23
Speaker 1
Like no one had really.

00:46:39:00 - 00:46:39:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:46:39:13 - 00:47:05:03
Speaker 1
But one of our team favorite books is the book, The Obstacles the way. And that's kind of like a motto too. It's like running at the most challenging thing on our plate is often the most productive thing to do, and very often is where most companies do not go like they usually avoid the hard work. And so that tends to leave months behind and cover a lot of progress.

00:47:05:03 - 00:47:45:12
Speaker 1
So we do the most challenging thing. So yeah, we tend to live by the obstacle. So I 100%, yeah, yeah.

00:47:45:14 - 00:47:46:04
Speaker 2
Most of my.

00:47:46:04 - 00:47:56:11
Speaker 1
Passions aren't really expensive things and I love trail running, I love the outdoors, I like the water skiing.

00:47:56:12 - 00:47:59:18
Speaker 2
I love books.

00:47:59:20 - 00:48:03:10
Speaker 1
But snow skiing. Yeah.

00:48:03:12 - 00:48:09:05
Speaker 2
So, but yeah.

00:48:09:07 - 00:48:16:00
Speaker 1
Those I think books and things are definitely, I would say biographies specifically or history.

00:48:16:01 - 00:48:18:05
Speaker 2
But yeah.

00:48:18:07 - 00:49:08:00
Speaker 1
I think those are a lot of my interest.

00:49:08:02 - 00:49:08:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:49:08:18 - 00:49:44:05
Speaker 1
So it's grown into a really big part of our business very quickly. And it's 2% up to $2 million a year that goes back to improving outdoor access for generations to come. And so it's meant be a very broad mandate. And the past two years it's been over 100 donations across the country and almost every state. And it's just a local trail parks trail, clean ups, trail building, bike parks, mountain biking, all sorts of things, rail trails, playgrounds.

00:49:44:07 - 00:50:02:08
Speaker 1
So yeah, it's like 5000, 10,000, $25,000 here. They're everywhere. And the last year we did 106 donations. This year we did 90 in the first half of the year. So probably be we're giving out almost $2 million this year through that program. So it's a.

00:50:02:10 - 00:50:03:09
Speaker 2
And when.

00:50:03:09 - 00:50:11:15
Speaker 1
We look back in ten years and see the impact of this program and the tens of millions of dollars of impact. Yeah. So we're so excited about that.

00:50:11:17 - 00:50:16:20
Speaker 2
I love.

00:50:16:20 - 00:50:41:18
Speaker 1
It. The grant window actually opens on August 17th.

00:50:41:20 - 00:51:33:17
Speaker 2
Yep. Prior to. Yeah, that kind.

00:51:33:17 - 00:51:46:15
Speaker 1
Of project is like exactly the kind of thing we donate to. So we'd love to hear more about it and we don't we? Yeah, we, so we help out in like hundreds of projects like that every year. So it's super exciting.

00:51:46:17 - 00:51:47:15
Speaker 2
I do apologize.

00:51:47:15 - 00:51:49:17
Speaker 1
I have to, I have to go, unfortunately.

00:51:49:17 - 00:51:51:22
Speaker 2
But yeah.

00:51:51:22 - 00:52:03:19
Speaker 1
I don't want to cut it off for you guys, so I just want to say thank you so much. To say it is great to talk to for sure.

00:52:03:21 - 00:52:20:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you, Doctor. Little bit. Thank you. Nice to meet.

00:52:20:11 - 00:52:24:21
Speaker 1
which is like a half a mile from my house. You have three or four different SKUs that I could have.

00:52:24:23 - 00:53:38:10
Speaker 1
I kind of picked up, and then we could have done a little tasting. But next time, we'll do that. Next time. Oh, fine. Oh. Oh, that's cool. So I guess if it reaches a certain volume, you keep it. That's really cool. You mentioned when you first started out that you were you did have some alcoholic you were brewing alcoholic brews just to kind of get going.

00:53:38:10 - 00:54:32:03
Speaker 1
Do you do you have any brews that have alcohol in them or is that ever in your future at all to do? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I well, I think you're doing the right thing because it sounds like there's a lot more, um, brews to come and you're being creative about it. And that's, that's the fun part, right? And you know, I'm the worst person to talk about when it comes to focus.

00:54:32:03 - 00:54:32:22
Speaker 1
So focus is.

00:54:32:22 - 00:54:34:16
Speaker 2
Good.

00:54:34:18 - 00:55:55:23
Speaker 1
Focusing in what you know is very good. So what is your flagship beer at this time? Oh, yeah. Nice. Oh, wow. Yeah, I know that sounds good to me. Actually, I kind of want to go get some.

00:55:55:23 - 00:56:03:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, Especially if it's gluten reduce. I didn't know that. I'm sure those two are at the Windex. I think there might be a third one if.

00:56:03:20 - 00:56:19:23
Speaker 1
Feel like I saw the third one. Yeah, No, that's. That's a good.

00:56:19:23 - 00:56:21:02
Speaker 2
Point.

00:56:21:04 - 00:56:43:00
Speaker 1
Because you can. You can do that. Actually, I don't know about a Winn-Dixie, but there's plenty of local places around that. I could go and get it from around here. Good. You know, it's. It's Florida. Anything goes, they don't have a lot of or at least they didn't. When I lived here the first time around, they didn't have a whole lot of rules to do much.

00:56:43:02 - 00:58:04:07
Speaker 1
I think they've cracked down some, but it's still pretty open state, at least compared to Texas. Yeah, I guess not that. I mean, again, nonalcoholic beer is a kind of different game, but are you guys in all 50 now? Oh, that's awesome. So is that do you ship it from here then? Yeah. UK is a good market too, because, uh, according to Bill, when I interviewed him earlier in the year, Gabelli, he told me that he actually ended up moving his operations there because they were so far advanced of, you know, open to the non alcoholic sector are probably ten, maybe ten, five, ten years ahead of us in that in that area.

00:58:04:07 - 00:59:02:11
Speaker 1
So is it is your business pretty good in the UK? Yeah Yeah. Huge. What what is the beer market there Like the nonalcoholic beer market. Do you know. Interesting. Yeah.

00:59:02:13 - 00:59:04:01
Speaker 2
Yep.

00:59:04:03 - 00:59:50:15
Speaker 1
That's really cool. So is there a keg Is there keg business available there then. Right. Yeah, I figured because I mean you get all the you have all the whiskey that's been, you know, produced over there which is, you know, well obviously a lot of beer and not always dissimilar. So it makes it makes sense that they would probably have a few Um, I just didn't know what that market looked like over there.

00:59:50:17 - 00:59:56:16
Speaker 1
You know, I mean, they also have a lot of ciders, more so than here.

00:59:56:17 - 01:00:18:01
Speaker 1
compete. Yeah, that'd be awesome. That'd be really fun. That'd be really cool. That could service your whole European market. Yeah, that'd be really cool.

01:00:18:03 - 01:00:18:19
Speaker 2
Huh?

01:00:18:20 - 01:00:45:19
Speaker 1
I've been to London and Scotland. London, I think a couple of times in Scotland once. Yeah. I'd like to get back over there at some point. Anyway. It's cold there, though. Well, that's awesome. Well, you know, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and chat with me and tell your story. I think it's very inspiring.

01:00:45:21 - 01:01:14:18
Speaker 1
I love that you guys are inspired by other people's stories as well. And that's. That's me. You know, I that's why I did this podcast, because I love food and beverage innovation eventually. I mean, I'd like to have a food food innovation podcast, but for and for now I'm just all in on beverage. And, you know, I love hearing how you guys came together and it all, it was almost like the universe knew what you needed and, and it just all came together.

01:01:14:18 - 01:01:43:21
Speaker 1
I mean, I wouldn't say it was easy, but it was rather easy how you wanted to get back to Connecticut. The the opportunity was just right there and then the right there for the San Diego brewery. Like, I love how that all just came together. And John Glaser and I had a conversation about this, about how once you focus in and you put it out there, things start happening and and and so that's kind of cool how that happened for you guys.

01:01:43:23 - 01:02:23:21
Speaker 1
That was really awesome. Yeah, it's, you know, COVID really inspired a lot of people to not just sit around and do nothing and drink.

01:02:23:23 - 01:02:25:00
Speaker 2
They were they.

01:02:25:01 - 01:02:53:20
Speaker 1
Were pretty busy coming up with ideas and, you know, not just learning how to bake bread or getting your MBA or going back to school or whatever it might be. People were really inspired by coming up with all kinds of fun things, and so there's never been more innovation than there is today, which, you know, kind of fit with what I was trying to do, you know, with getting into that space and understanding what was going on, the trends and and the people behind the inspiration.

01:02:53:22 - 01:03:13:05
Speaker 1
And, you know, because everybody has their own journey and everybody has their own story. And I'm inspired by learning what those are and then being able to share them, you know, with the world. Yeah, of.

01:03:13:05 - 01:03:14:10
Speaker 2
Course.

01:03:14:11 - 01:03:40:11
Speaker 1
Of course. I can't wait to meet up again and the future, whenever that is, and see what your how your progress is going. Maybe you'll have a brewery in the UK by then. Who knows? Yeah, of course. Well, I appreciate it. I will. I'll let you go. I'll sign off and in and say goodbye and let you get back to your your creative space.

01:03:40:13 - 01:03:43:11
Speaker 1
You bet. Okay. Bye bye.

01:03:43:11 - 01:03:49:09
Unknown
This week's episode was produced by Fedora Jay Productions.