[REPLAY] Claire Warner: Creating and Selling a Brand to Diageo & Advocate of Low & No as well as Health and Well Being of Bartenders Globally

Welcome to Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST! 👏

My name is Jessie Ott, the Host of this Podcast which is all about Beverage Innovation. I talk with Innovation Pioneers from Agriculture to Glass.🥂

📢I talk🎙️with  Claire Warner, Tales of the Cocktails Foundation, Member Board of Directors, and co-founder of Seedlip’s sister company, Æcorn, non-alcoholic aperitifs based on Sussex wine grapes and bitter botanicals. Yes, you guessed it. The ingredients do include bitterness from acorns. Both brands have since been sold to Diageo. 👏🍷 🎇 🎉 ✨ 👏 🥂  😁

Claire is now Head of Advocacy and Head of Luxury Advocacy for Diageo, in London, Great Britain.

Claire has always been a bartender at heart but was able to use her skills in the corporate world during her tenure at LVMH, mostly working on the Belvedere Vodka brand. She started out as a brand ambassador. She then became the Head of Spirit Creation and Mixology where she introduced 13 new expressions including the Single Estate Rye series which landed the “Vodka Producer of the Year” three years in a row by the International Spirit Challenge.

She’s a tireless advocate of better health for the bartending community as well as championing the low and no movement. 

Claire is one of a kind in our industry and what she has done for our hardest workers is second to none. I have a lot of admiration for her and all that she has accomplished by promoting a healthy-centric approach to the bartender's life. She’s also a very insightful and giving person. I know you will all agree once you hear her story.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Start
• 1:39 Subscribe To Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST
• 1:44 Welcome
• 1:58 Where are You Calling From?
• 3:19 Where Claire is From
• 4:00 What got you in the business?
• 6:32 NYC vs London Cocktail Scene
• 9:50 UK Non Alc advanced to US
• 13:10 Consumers want No and Low or No
• 27:45 Are bartenders behind no and low ABV?
• 29:45 Claire's career start at LVMH on Belvedere Vodka
• 45:00 Claire's Connection to Tales of the Cocktails
• 54:11 Mentors
• 1:05:53 AECORN Sister Company to Seedlip
• 1:07:12 Beverage Resources
• 1:08:29 Future Trends
• 1:14:55 Thank you for Coming Claire!
• 1:17:45 Gen Z & Alpha Deep Dive into Beverage Industry Changes
• 1:24:53 Claire's favorite cocktail!
• 1:28:00 Goodbye & thank you for joining me Claire!
• 1:28:12 Produced by Fedora J Productions

Transcript

00;00;03;07 - 00;00;18;14
Jessie
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessie, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass. This week.

00;00;18;14 - 00;00;48;11
Jessie
I'm speaking with Claire Warner, Tales of the Cocktail Foundation member, board of directors and co-founder of Seed Lip sister company ACORN Nonalcoholic Aperitifs based on Sussex Wine Grapes and Bitter Botanicals. Yes, you guessed it. The ingredients do include the bitterness from the ACORN. Both brands have since been sold to Diageo. Clare has always been a bartender at heart, but was able to use her skills in the corporate world during her tenure at LVMH.

00;00;48;13 - 00;01;14;25
Jessie
Mostly working on the Belvedere Vodka brand, she started out as a brand ambassador. She then became the head of Spirit Creation and MIXOLOGY, where she introduced 13 new expressions, including Single Estate Rice series, which landed the bucket producer of the year three years in a row by the International Spirits Challenge. She's a tireless advocate of better health for the bartending community, as well as championing

00;01;14;25 - 00;01;16;26
Jessie
the low and no movement.

00;01;16;26 - 00;01;39;21
Jessie
Clare is one of a kind in our industry and what she has done for our hardest workers is second to none. I have a lot of admiration for her and all that she has accomplished by promoting a healthy centric approach to the bartender life. She's also a very insightful and giving person. I know all of you will agree once you've heard her story.

00;01;39;21 - 00;01;44;14
Speaker 1
Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes.

00;01;45;07 - 00;01;56;07
Jessie
Welcome, everybody, to Thursday, Thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jesse Ott and I have Claire Warner here today. I'm so excited to have you on, Claire.

00;01;56;09 - 00;01;58;15
Claire
I just say thanks for having me.

00;01;58;17 - 00;02;00;09
Jessie
Where are you calling from?

00;02;00;12 - 00;02;07;18
Claire
London. A very rainy, cold, gray London day. Unfortunately, given it's July.

00;02;07;20 - 00;02;27;03
Jessie
Yeah, I went. I went to London when I was over in France during grad school. I had a boyfriend over there and it was the coldest, coldest summer in 50 years or something. It was like 1999, 2000, 2000. It was 2000. It was so cold.

00;02;27;05 - 00;02;45;19
Claire
Yeah, I know, but I'm sure we get into it. But I've just come back from New Orleans. If it tells the tale. And it was literally the opposite of today in London, it was scorching hot. So if anything, I'm kind of grateful for the gray sky today.

00;02;45;21 - 00;02;49;08
Jessie
Well, you can rest and get a book and, you know, lay on the couch.

00;02;49;15 - 00;02;51;03
Jessie
And enjoy that.

00;02;51;06 - 00;02;53;07
Jessie
The sunny weather.

00;02;53;09 - 00;02;57;17
Claire
Just lay very still after all, the stimulus of last week.

00;02;57;20 - 00;03;09;12
Jessie
Oh, yeah. I could only imagine. Well, and it's hot and humid, which is not only hot, but it's humid. So it makes it even, you know, more unbearable. And, you know, right there on the water. So.

00;03;09;14 - 00;03;13;29
Claire
Yeah, exactly. Lots of cool cocktails, though. So that's always a relief.

00;03;14;02 - 00;03;23;20
Jessie
Yeah. I can't wait to get into it and hear more. So where are you originally from? Are you are you from London?

00;03;23;22 - 00;03;40;14
Claire
Yeah, I grew up south of the river in a place called Crystal Palace and then left London when I went to university and then came back east. So I now live in East London, where all the cool kids hang out.

00;03;40;17 - 00;03;43;00
Jessie
Oh, okay. So you're part of the cool kid culture out there.

00;03;43;05 - 00;03;48;06
Claire
None of the cool kids hang out. And then there's me here.

00;03;48;07 - 00;03;50;18
Jessie
If you're like me, you go to bed at like nine or ten.

00;03;50;21 - 00;03;54;22
Claire
Oh, my God. Yes. Under present.

00;03;54;25 - 00;04;05;13
Jessie
Yeah. Middle age thinks that's cool. So what got you into the business in the beverage industry?

00;04;05;16 - 00;04;36;09
Claire
Yeah. I think like many people who are in our business, I didn't intend to go into the drinks business. In fact, I didn't even know that I was a drinks business. My parents both don't drink. And so my sort of early introduction to alcohol was at university. And then, you know, university drinking is not naturally associated with drinking anything of a high quality or anything certainly sophisticated.

00;04;36;11 - 00;05;07;23
Claire
But I did. Barton I did. I was working in a bar while I was at university, and when I graduated, I went on to run a Nottingham's first cocktail bar with absolutely zero knowledge of cocktails. So I read a lots of books, entered a bunch of cocktail competitions and really sort of fell in love with all of the stories of the bottles that make up of that club and was fascinated to discover the industry that we know and love today.

00;05;07;25 - 00;05;39;16
Claire
And that industry is built off of many legacy brands. You have hundreds of years worth of storytelling and heritage, and I was fascinated. I was just fascinated by the passion and the craftsmanship that you that you discover that lay behind brands that have been around for so long. You know, so these incredibly famous huge brands that that have hundreds of years worth of craftsmanship.

00;05;39;16 - 00;06;18;01
Claire
So I kind of fell into it having won some cocktail competitions and then went over to the brand side pretty early on in my career. So I bartended for a couple of years, was pretty good, you know, competed as a way to learn, you know, we don't have sort of bartending schools necessarily. So one of the best ways to to learn is to what I found was to be amongst other more experienced bartenders or even just bartenders that were coming up that we could kind of learn and lose together.

00;06;18;03 - 00;06;21;23
Claire
So losing a cocktail competition is a brilliant way to learn what not to do.

00;06;21;25 - 00;06;26;16
Jessie
And I see it now. They have they have that on TV now.

00;06;26;18 - 00;06;33;16
Claire
Yeah, exactly. They didn't have to in my day and know that going back so 20 plus years.

00;06;33;19 - 00;06;50;05
Jessie
But can I ask you, do you know the difference between the the cocktail scene and in London compared to New York or the U.S.? Did it parallel or was one a little bit more sophisticated than the other or advanced?

00;06;50;05 - 00;07;19;00
Claire
I guess I would say that cocktail culture or the cocktail revolution probably happened a little bit later here in the UK than it did in the US. And that's largely that, mostly because the cocktail revolution was driven by bartenders discovering or really going back into the history books that were Pre-Prohibition Pre-Prohibition oh I can’t say it.

00;07;19;02 - 00;07;20;10
Jessie
Version.

00;07;20;12 - 00;08;11;01
Claire
Prohibition. Thank you. And you know, all those amazing bartenders that were being we're having to be very creative after Prohibition and, and creating drinks from a variety of ingredients or also whatever was available. And and then so the 20th century cocktail revolution really came out of the US and particularly New York bartenders and some bartenders, other areas of the US that just kind of rediscovering some of those classic, classic cocktails and then recreating them with products, brands that were either available today that were of a higher quality or even so resurrecting some very traditional brands that might have sat on a back floor with bartenders not really know what to do with them.

00;08;11;01 - 00;09;04;22
Claire
I'm thinking of Lillet and, you know, about to tell, you know, Galliano. Thinking about Galliano? Yeah. So, you know, all those dusty bottles that in the eighties, in the nineties we kind of saw in the back bar didn't really know what to do with and they didn't necessarily have a purpose. Some very, very creative bartenders decided to research those types of drink categories and discovered that there are hundreds of incredible drinks that were made using those classic categories of spirits and boots and aperitifs and amaros etc., and got creative and sort of resurrected or created a new cocktail revolution that inspired a new generation of cocktail consumers and enthusiasts.

00;09;04;24 - 00;09;33;24
Claire
And then that probably took a few years to translate over into the UK scene. But by the time I was coming up, which was like the early 2000s, there was an emerging cocktail culture and one where, you know, many bartenders were cutting their teeth in cocktail competitions and beverage programs that were focusing on that sort of new classic style of cocktail.

00;09;33;26 - 00;09;51;14
Claire
So we were a little bit delayed, a little bit. The high end maybe, but I think we've made up for it in spades over the last 20 years. And now, you know, we see the classic cocktail culture really driving the adoption of cocktails for the consumer globally.

00;09;51;16 - 00;10;10;14
Jessie
Well, I know that in then through the podcast, I've learned that the UK was so far advanced in the nonalcoholic options that one of our one of the companies actually moved his company there. They got better ingredients and it was more of a more of a culture around it.

00;10;10;16 - 00;10;11;18
Claire
Yeah, Yeah.

00;10;11;18 - 00;10;16;06
Jessie
So I mean it really happened been in the US a couple of years. Sorry.

00;10;16;09 - 00;11;10;03
Claire
Yeah, yeah. I mean no, New York has its roots in some very, very early products. I'm thinking specifically of a product called Aqua Libra, which was a nonalcoholic soda, but designed to be, you know, a replacement for champagne or sparkling wine. And that I think, was around in the eighties, in the nineties. And then obviously the most famous non out product and person in the in the category is Ben Branson who created saving it to really revolutionize that movement and I think gave the consumer something to to enjoy when they were when they're not drinking and and the consumer for the most part in this country really drove that and really drove that category.

00;11;10;03 - 00;11;35;29
Claire
It was the consumer that were going into bars and asking for better options in the not out space. And a lot of that early success was driven through retail. So launched into Selfridges and then bars came second. So it was very much taking the consumer interest in no and low or no at that point and translating it into that very successful brand that we have today.

00;11;36;01 - 00;11;38;19
Jessie
Yeah. How long has it been around?

00;11;38;21 - 00;11;54;05
Claire
So since it was launched, Ben started working on it in 2013, 2014, It was launched in 2015 and then went into the Diageo portfolio in 2019, 2020.

00;11;54;07 - 00;11;55;22
Jessie
Okay, so quickly.

00;11;55;25 - 00;12;30;13
Claire
Yeah, Yeah, very, very quickly. And now I think we've got 500 plus brands and products in that category and it's growing exponentially every year. I've just finished judging the IWC awards and just some of the fantastic innovations that are coming through that category are just so encouraging. And you know, ultimately this is this is really giving more people more choice and allowing more of us to come into bars and restaurants and have a fantastic experience which has to be celebrated.

00;12;30;15 - 00;12;54;12
Jessie
Yeah, no, I agree. I haven't explored a lot of the non ALC brands or tried very many of them. The ones I've had I've had in cocktails, which there's a lot going on in there. Yeah, I did try Mezcal. I wasn't super, you know, overwhelmed by it. So I hope I'm encouraged then by what you're saying. I hope I hope they continue to get it to get better.

00;12;54;15 - 00;13;07;01
Jessie
And you know, then our it's so we're just behind here in the culture. You know, you still talk to people about nonalcoholic drinks and they're like, get out of here. You know.

00;13;07;03 - 00;13;07;10
Jessie
I don't.

00;13;07;10 - 00;13;11;15
Jessie
Want that on my menu. No. Yeah, you come here for because, you know, whatever.

00;13;11;15 - 00;13;41;05
Claire
Yeah, there's still a way to go. But it is. That's the way that the that's the way the consumer is moving towards. You know, we talk about moderation as mainstream today. And, you know, having come back from Tesla cocktail, I would say, you know, every single event, every single bar takeover had at least two options. We had a whole dedicated beyond the bar space, which is dedicated to low.

00;13;41;07 - 00;14;13;04
Claire
So so there's you know, says the cocktail is the foremost cocktail festival in the world And so from nowhere now being so prominent, I hope that that will continue to trickle down into other into other cocktail cities, cocktail regions where, you know, ultimately the the true the the tourist form of hospitality is putting, you know, your your consumers needs and desires at the forefront of your beverage program.

00;14;13;04 - 00;14;54;14
Claire
And the consumer is telling us that they want more no and no options so they can, you know, live their more moderate lifestyles and balance balance, you know, drinking great, delicious alcoholic drinks with occasionally drinking something that's a no or low AB And ultimately it represents, you know, small commercial value for your business as well. Here in the UK, we leave about £800 million on the tables every year just by people's emotions, not having a no or low option on their menu and the consumer customer ordering sparkling water or water.

00;14;54;17 - 00;15;09;19
Claire
So, you know, just by having one or two options, you can really open up the opportunity for people to trade up from, you know, soft drink or sparkling water. So it makes good business sense to have something available for those more moderate consumers as well.

00;15;09;21 - 00;15;32;26
Jessie
Yeah, it really does. And, you know, especially for women, if you're trying to get pregnant or you don't want to talk about it or, you know, things like that, it's it's a lot more, you know, hidden, I guess, for say, what do you think? What do you think was part of that charge in the UK back in the, you know, 2015, 2014.

00;15;32;26 - 00;15;40;23
Jessie
What was the was there a particular movement that was happening? Was it the Millennials?

00;15;40;25 - 00;16;14;07
Claire
So a number of like dry it key drivers. I think you know here in the UK for 20 or so years that been, you know, really quite aggressive communication on drunk driving. So you know lots of efforts by the government to help reduce deaths by drunk driving. So we had some really, you know, very serious spend behind not drinking if you were driving.

00;16;14;07 - 00;16;48;10
Claire
And then because of that, a lot of investment by big companies to develop and know their options, I bet was probably Will definitely was at the forefront of the No Baby movement. You also had, you know, a greater interest in health and wellbeing. So fitness and health, a healthier lifestyle. It was becoming again more mainstream. Then on top of that, we had had the introduction of Facebook and the Internet and all of a sudden we're much more visible.

00;16;48;13 - 00;17;15;17
Claire
So, you know, you you're you're much more visible if you are intoxicated than you've ever been. So, you know, it had that had repercussions either from a professional perspective, you know, if you are applying for jobs or or just from a personal perspective, we didn't want to necessarily be seen to be, you know, intoxicated online. And and I think also innovation.

00;17;15;19 - 00;17;54;19
Claire
And so, you know, more technology, more and more technology that enabled us to extract really great, delicious ingredients using different techniques. I know that Ben Branson from Seedlip really focused on pot distilling, but using the stills in an entirely different way to to extract. And so I think a combination of factors all combine for that then to to to create seed which then supercharge the interest of our know low.

00;17;54;22 - 00;18;26;09
Claire
But but fundamentally I think it's today about being able to socialize without compromise being able to live more lives, live with intention and and live with an ability to stay close to our lifestyle goals. And many of us, more of us than ever, are interested in longevity and health and wellbeing and still wanting to socialize, recognizing that we're a social species.

00;18;26;12 - 00;18;40;05
Claire
And so we want to, you know, ultimately have och have a cocktail and drink it. You know, we want to be able to go out, have a but still feel good and productive the next day. So yeah, a combination of factors have really driven the rise in life.

00;18;40;08 - 00;18;56;11
Jessie
Yeah, I, you know as I've gotten older, I mean even a drink or two, you're like, Oh, why did I do that? So I guess it's, it's, it's the alcohol. It could be part of the sugar right. Yeah. When you're.

00;18;56;13 - 00;19;32;12
Claire
Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, sugar plays a part. There's, there's, we've not done a very good job I think in helping the consumer understand, you know, APD that's coming with the rise of lower ABV products. But I think, you know, here in the UK, understanding units and EBV can be quite complicated. So there's a system tested by the Office of National Statistics in the UK, which I love, is that they do it, they do an analysis every year where they, they take what what we tell our doctors we drink.

00;19;32;14 - 00;19;56;25
Claire
So every year, you know, if you go to the NHS, doctor, this is how much you take, they take that number and then they also take the number from how, how much alcohol has been taxed and say, you know what, where's the discrepancy? And you know, we're very, very far out is a huge Yeah. What we tell ourselves and our doctors or how we self-report versus what actually is sold.

00;19;57;02 - 00;20;20;10
Claire
And so I think that's funny how how challenging it is for us to really understand our own consumption habits and our own ability to know what we're drinking and how we're doing. So as a consequence, you know, we can probably drink more intentionally at certain points of the week. So we see, you know, a low obviously trending sort of Sunday, Monday of Sunday through to Wednesday.

00;20;20;13 - 00;20;44;29
Claire
And then we start to drink a little more over the over the weekends or later on in the week. But I think ultimately we're getting better understanding what we drink and how it makes us feel. And now we can still have a good time and still have a great cocktail. So have a good drink. And you know, with our low get on with our days, you know, the following day.

00;20;44;29 - 00;21;03;08
Claire
And there's a there is a greater pressure on many of us to be more productive, to get more out of our days. But for us to have to work longer, you know, obviously as a cost of living crisis going on at the moment. And so there's a real pressure, I think, for people to feel as though they need to work and need to be productive.

00;21;03;10 - 00;21;37;14
Claire
And sometimes, you know, drinking for me, even drinking two glasses of wine, you know, can one one day be fine for me the next week not be so fine. So, you know, I have to now really think about when I drink and what that what that occasion means to me and for me to sort of want to not sacrifice, but really want to drink intentionally when I want to have something alcoholic and also, you know, drink freely when I'm just wanting to socialize and have a good time and maybe that maybe have got stuff to do the next day.

00;21;37;16 - 00;22;03;28
Claire
But but I think, you know, this this movement just gives us more choice and more ability to continue to socialize. And that's one thing that I'm super passionate about, is does not creating barriers around when and how we hang out with our friends. Because I think there's there's too many of too many opportunities to say no to a good time, too many opportunities to say no, I won't hang out tonight, but work in the morning.

00;22;03;28 - 00;22;22;00
Claire
I've got stuff to do and that that contributes to this epidemic, the epidemic levels of loneliness that we see globally. So if no alone can help to mitigate some of those feelings of social isolation and some more hatred.

00;22;22;03 - 00;22;30;23
Jessie
Yeah, that's a really good point. I know that you're really into cocktails, but have you tried any of the nonalcoholic wines at all?

00;22;30;25 - 00;22;51;23
Claire
Yes. So, you know, having just come off the back of judging a bunch of nonalcoholic wines that that has been eye opening for me because that has to grow that wine industry, the category has sort of lagged a little bit behind the rest of the known low ABV spirits. So spirits have really driven the growth, particularly for cocktails.

00;22;51;23 - 00;23;22;17
Claire
And now we're seeing wine catch up and so there's more investment going into the technology that's needed to help producers lower the ABV of wine through the acquisition or spinning kind of technology and some nanotechnology that's also being applied to decolonization that doesn't have such a negative effect on the aroma and the texture of the wines. And I have to say that some of the wines that we tasted when we were judging were phenomenal.

00;23;22;19 - 00;23;46;15
Claire
So there's there's a real closing of the quality gap between what we what we had a few years ago and in terms of and ITV wines and what we will what we have currently, although very a very small amount of producers producing great stuff. But I think in the next 2 to 3 years we'll see some phenomenal products coming onto the shelves, which is very exciting.

00;23;46;17 - 00;23;52;22
Jessie
Yeah, that is really exciting. And is that is that mostly American wineries or is that all over the world.

00;23;52;24 - 00;24;27;25
Claire
Really driven by us really driven by sort of new world wine producers? I would say So. A lot of New Zealand of Australia, some some us as well, less so in Europe, I would say. So sort of the older wine producers are perhaps a little slow to catch up, but I would say that Torres, later, as a Spanish producer, had been producing wines for 150 years, have some exceptional no ABV wines, and they've actually been driving the No ABV agenda since, I think 2008.

00;24;27;25 - 00;24;54;09
Claire
So they again very much at the forefront. So so yeah, I think we're going to see a lot more, but there's already some really great stuff out there. And I know actually one of our judges was from Canada and we didn't have any of the Canadian producers in the competition, but she was saying that there's some exceptional no IP or no and lower BP wines out of Canada.

00;24;54;09 - 00;24;59;05
Claire
So looking forward to try some of those as well. Yeah. Yeah.

00;24;59;07 - 00;25;27;15
Jessie
No, that's great. I'm really happy to hear that. I haven't experimented with them at all, you know, So I'm happy to hear that they're they're on the decline of quality. We have a I think that's good. Oh, I was we had a a cocktail bar here, but it's like a retail store also. And you can go in and buy wines and spirits and it's that's so close to my house, but I should have bought it.

00;25;27;18 - 00;25;44;09
Jessie
I should have bought a couple of bottles of wine just to try them and see. Yeah. You know, because for me it's about an experience like you were saying, you, but you want to enjoy that experience. Like if you're going to have, you know, you want a red wine with dinner, you know who cares if it's, it's alcohol in it.

00;25;44;09 - 00;25;48;05
Jessie
You just want you just want the experience of the the flavors together.

00;25;48;07 - 00;26;16;29
Claire
Exactly. I mean, that wine is the unicorn, right? Because all those spirits are exciting and we can create cocktails. And, you know, there's there's a cocktail for most occasions. It maybe it requires a little bit more preparation or a little bit more understanding of how cocktails are created. So not everybody really wants to go to the effort of making a cocktail at home or great in a cocktail bar, but you can have a no or low AB cocktail.

00;26;16;29 - 00;26;41;27
Claire
And that's the the bartenders are experts and they can do that because they know that what they're doing is a little bit more challenging at home. If you don't if you don't have the equipment or if you maybe don't have all the ingredients. But wine represents the opportunity to just open a bottle and have that great no lo ABC experience at home that that speaks to that low tempo occasion that we often we all know.

00;26;41;27 - 00;27;10;24
Claire
You know, it's like a before dinner or within a everybody knows how to open a bottle of wine and have it with food. And so I think the more the more of those great options around wine that that become available, that that doesn't feel as though there is a quality compromise. The more again we'll be able to enjoy it no and no at home and then cocktails I think are specific to a certain time, a certain place, certain occasion.

00;27;10;26 - 00;27;47;27
Claire
And, you know, bartenders are helping create a great first experience for customers or consumers in their bars. So I think, you know, this whole movement is just showing no signs of slowing down. It's it's incredibly exciting to have Judge Bunch of great new products that I saw in the IWC, but also just, you know, to see how many more of us are getting behind these great brands and these great producers, because that just encourages more investment and more innovation in the development of new great products.

00;27;48;00 - 00;28;00;16
Jessie
So do you see that bartenders around the world are getting behind this movement or or is there are they some or is it half and half or.

00;28;00;19 - 00;28;28;29
Claire
I think that for the most part, yes, we are obviously that you're always going to get some detractors and some bartenders that say others don't get it or is a fad. But for the most part, I would say that the bartenders that I've spoken to during the cocktail or while I've been out doing talks have been incredibly receptive.

00;28;28;29 - 00;28;58;13
Claire
You know, ultimately, as I mentioned earlier, it does represent a great business opportunity if you consider that here's a trade up opportunity away from, you know, lemonade, soda, coca cola or water and that there's an opportunity to still really flex your creativity and and, you know, apply the same levels of creativity to, you know, a low beverage program that you would with your AB classic AB program.

00;28;58;15 - 00;29;20;28
Claire
And you know this there's there's an audience for it. And that means if you've got a great low beverage program, I guarantee that you'll have people coming in to your bar and ordering those drinks. They might order them earlier in the day, they might order them as a space between alcoholic drinks, They might have a cocktail with lunch, whereas they wouldn't if they only had a few.

00;29;20;28 - 00;29;47;22
Claire
And you had that alcoholic cocktail of options. So ultimately, you know, for me, you know, if it was me running a bar, I would say that I can still be creative. There's an incredible array of products that are available to bartenders now, so I can be creative and I can also be, you know, I can also create great drinks that that will sell so that is a business opportunity for bars as well.

00;29;47;25 - 00;29;59;07
Jessie
So can we go back and learn a little bit more about your journey with with Belvedere? Yeah, that's.

00;29;59;09 - 00;30;00;07
Claire
Yeah, that's where I.

00;30;00;07 - 00;30;06;03
Jessie
Started, right GET Yeah. So how did, what was your first position with with them?

00;30;06;06 - 00;30;30;27
Claire
My first position was UK brand ambassador. Um, it wasn't called a brand ambassador, but then because there wasn't really brand ambassadors, there was one, one global ambassador at the time, which is a guy called Simon Ford, which you might know him, He's the founder of Fords Gin, and he was he was working on the Miss Gin at the time, I think.

00;30;30;27 - 00;31;09;29
Claire
So He was the first guy, an ambassador. And then I joined the Hennessy in 2003 and was a business development executive. But ultimately, I was a brand ambassador and for a couple of years did The UK then moved into Europe and then moved to New York with the brand team. And as the global ambassador slash really sort of running, I was the link between marketing and sales and education because I was the one that was kind of very much out in the field globally talking to bartenders and consumers.

00;31;10;01 - 00;31;32;11
Claire
It was quite easy for me to post back trends or things that I had noticed. So after after a short time I moved into the role that I had for the longest, which was head of Spirit creation. So I led the innovation team and we developed 30 award winning Belvedere focus in my time with Belvedere.

00;31;32;12 - 00;31;36;19
Jessie
That's amazing. Congratulations. And it's hugely fun.

00;31;36;19 - 00;32;14;09
Claire
Yeah, so fun. So fun. And then the last project I worked on before I moved out of MH was the one that I am most proud of, which is that what we call the single state vodka is where we really demonstrated well in vodka. So very much focused. Very much so. An immediate spirit. And, you know, we worked with 13 different growers all across Poland, and there were noticeable differences between the styles of spirit that we were producing across those 13 regions and territories.

00;32;14;09 - 00;32;40;24
Claire
And we made a special focus on just two of those areas. So one that was close to a lake, so very sort of low land part of Poland and then one that was close to the forest. And those environmental elements really came through in the production of the Spirit. So that was a beautiful project to work on because it really did demonstrate.

00;32;40;25 - 00;33;24;09
Claire
Yeah, like there's a terroir in Boca, which was very, very evident and very obvious. And so I did 15 years there, wonderful time, really, really wonderful company to work for. But I think in the last five years of my time with NASA, I became super interested in wellness and wanted to find ways for myself to have a little bit more longevity in this industry and how can we work small in a very physically demanding industry, not only through what we consume, but we work long hours and bartending can be my physical job.

00;33;24;09 - 00;33;57;27
Claire
So created a whole program around sort of how we can support our health and wellbeing in the industry, which as you were very supportive of in that time. I and Ben and I, Ben Brunson from Egypt became friends and I at the time is talking about no lower ABV drinks and low sugar drinks as well. And Ben was launching seed Life in 2015 and I was probably one of the first people to tell him he was crazy and that no one would ever buy Philip.

00;33;57;29 - 00;34;25;23
Claire
But happily he didn't listen and he didn't see life. And then I joined Ben too, in 2018, and then we created ACORN Together, which is the sister brand to seed live and a range of nonalcoholic aperitifs. So very much in the sort of Campari approach style. And we also had a Drive Me style and a sweet Vermouth style as well.

00;34;25;23 - 00;34;57;07
Claire
So something that spoke to that. So very traditional. Yeah, European Aperitivo style. And they were based on value that was grown in the UK. So peanut oil money and Chardonnay bougie and using British Acorns as a pursuing agent. And then a bunch of other lovely tentacles. Yeah. So all natural, really beautiful. No, no, aperitifs because we really felt with a commitment.

00;34;57;09 - 00;34;58;12
Claire
Yeah.

00;34;58;15 - 00;35;00;15
Jessie
That's fascinating. Yeah.

00;35;00;18 - 00;35;33;11
Claire
So we felt like would see that we had, you know, we had grows garden and spice, they, they represented a really great array of nonalcoholic spirits for multiple cocktail uses. But of course, you know, going back to our conversation around classic cocktails, a lot of those classic cocktails had the Musso and Amaro element. So creating the modifier range for that was was a really great opportunity for get bartenders more options to work with.

00;35;33;13 - 00;36;14;10
Claire
So those brands were acquired by Diageo in 2019 2020, and the last few years have been sort of transitioning those brands across into the world's largest drinks company was very exciting. And now I work with a number, I consult now and I work with a number of small brands that all have a social impact so very much. And then there are no space brands that are looking to either drive in a sustainability agenda or drive a social impact agenda around helping people make more moderate choices.

00;36;14;12 - 00;36;19;18
Claire
So yeah, 20 years I've been very busy. All good.

00;36;19;21 - 00;36;40;08
Jessie
Yes, you have. So talk more about the the health initiative that you kind of transferred into. What what was that a program or what what did you create or is because there are some kind of awareness or. Yeah, was it flow who's was the intended audience then? Was it consumers or bartenders or both or.

00;36;40;10 - 00;37;14;23
Claire
It was primarily brand ambassadors and half the people you were working with with alcohol, traveling a bunch or working long hours, finding it difficult to find ways to balance that. Those lifestyle pressures. And what we created was really a a platform of coping strategies. So it was basically just access to resources. So what what should you be eating?

00;37;14;26 - 00;37;44;13
Claire
What should you be? How should you be recovering from like a long shift? How should you move your body to counteract the repetitive movements that you often use behind the ball? So it was really just a platform of resources and content that helped bartenders think about themselves in a helpful light. I think back then this is sort of like 2010, 2000, 2009, 2010.

00;37;44;13 - 00;38;10;26
Claire
So health and wellbeing wasn't at the forefront of all conversations in the world. It was only really then that we started to have these types of conversations. So initially, as those who talk about the impact of sugar and why we why we didn't need to use so much sugar in our drinks to these days because we've got incredibly well made spirits and modifiers.

00;38;10;28 - 00;38;32;09
Claire
So they shouldn't necessarily need as much sugar as they did 100 years ago in the 1920s, 1930s, and just talked a little bit about the impact that sugar has if you are making drinks, but also if you are consuming drugs, it puts a a lot of pressure and unnecessary pressure on your liver if you have a lot of sugar from that.

00;38;32;09 - 00;38;57;25
Claire
And so it was transitioned into talking about wellness and health in general. So talking about lower ABV drinks, lower sugar drinks, movement, diet, exercise as a way of actually helping bartenders see that they could be in this industry and still be healthy. I think that was a real back then. It was, you know, we had and a handshake.

00;38;57;25 - 00;39;05;03
Claire
So you go into a bar and, you know, if you knew the bartender, you'd get a shot and that would be a bartender handshake. There was a lot of.

00;39;05;08 - 00;39;06;19
Jessie
I didn't know that.

00;39;06;21 - 00;39;27;05
Claire
Yes. There's a lot of there was a lot of consumption. There's a lot of drinking. There's a lot of late nights as well. I think, you know, you can only really succeed in this business if you stay up really late and you drink those results and, you know, you're part of that sort of network. And that isn't what a lot of our community wanted for their careers.

00;39;27;05 - 00;39;47;29
Claire
They wanted to be able to still be successful and still be part of that network and not necessarily have to do a lot of the heavy drinking. And we will, I think, with our platform. We were one of the first people to start having this conversation around how can we be how can we think of this as a marathon, not a sprint?

00;39;47;29 - 00;40;17;18
Claire
How can we think of this as a career that has longevity as opposed to like a flash in the pan? You know, a couple of years and you're burnt out? And it was a really brilliant conversation and start having. And that meant that more bartenders felt that they could you know, they could say no to these alternative handshakes, that they could protest their health as a way to just do a better job and not get so burnt out.

00;40;17;20 - 00;40;57;26
Claire
And that meant also that there were more people with greater experiences that can come in to have these conversations. So today that initial conversation around what we call Drinking Live has become a huge pillar of terms of the cocktail, which we now call Beyond the Bottle. And we have a bunch of expert professionals who talk about everything from mental wellbeing and sustainability, not to sustainability and business sustainability, like how do we sustain ourselves in this business through to addiction, substance abuse?

00;40;57;28 - 00;41;27;22
Claire
How can we move our bodies more? Just I think it's we're a very human centric business and for the longest time we were focusing on the business part. So the drinks and the glassware and the programs and the bars and the tables and chairs and that whole experience of really neglecting the human side of what we do. And so now we're able to recognize that we're we're human beings doing this business.

00;41;27;22 - 00;42;02;20
Claire
And so we need to think about how we can protect ourselves and live long, happy, creative lives in an industry that is can be very, very challenging, but physically demanding can often put us at risk of harm, personal harm, mental harm, physical harm, harm from substance abuse. And so we need to have resources and support and access to those people who can support us throughout our careers.

00;42;02;23 - 00;42;16;27
Claire
And that's one of the things we do at the cocktail with Beyond the Bar. But there's a whole plethora of resources available to bartenders today that can speak to how to find more longevity in this business. The Drinks Trust

00;42;16;26 - 00;42;17;26
Claire
also have a really

00;42;17;25 - 00;42;27;20
Speaker 1
fantastic program. And so I think it's a really important conversation that we that we started having back in 2010 and that we can continue.

00;42;27;20 - 00;42;39;04
Speaker 1
That's great. I didn't know that was happening. But that's fantastic. I'm sure that, um, that this, you know, these the generation of bartenders really appreciate that.

00;42;39;22 - 00;42;42;03
Claire
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00;42;42;05 - 00;43;07;00
Jessie
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. We forget about the human element, don't we? Yes. Really. It's we, we we really do. And sometimes I guess we take we take our workers for granted, which, you know, I think COVID certainly shifted that focus. You know, our restaurants really, really, really suffered badly. And a lot of the waitstaff didn't come back there.

00;43;07;01 - 00;43;26;25
Jessie
They decided to go get an education or go in a different direction or, you know, or whatever direction they wanted to go to. So, yeah, we we're really good tippers every time. Yeah, it was so weird for me. Yeah. Being in Japan, I don't know what it's like over there, but, you know, they get paid like three bucks an hour.

00;43;26;25 - 00;43;40;05
Jessie
Maybe it's because it's all tips. It's all tips here. Yeah. So, you know, in Japan, you don't tip. And it was really weird because we're so used to tipping. Yeah, it's hard.

00;43;40;07 - 00;44;16;05
Claire
Yes. Similar in Europe. We are somewhere between the US and Europe, I would say in the UK. But you know, in the US we know it's it's very challenging. A lot of the minimum pay is made up by tips. So in some states in the US, the bartenders waitstaff are paid very, very low amounts and it's something that we we need to kind of look at and acknowledge and try to try to change because, you know, these hospitality workers worked incredibly hard to give us a great experience.

00;44;16;07 - 00;44;29;16
Claire
Yeah. When we when we're out socializing with our friends and we need to not not neglect that because if we've got nowhere far more exciting to go, then what are we going to do with our social lives?

00;44;29;18 - 00;44;58;12
Jessie
Yeah, I when I lived in New York City, I, I worked at a restaurant and I did, I did breakfasts, lunches, dinners, whatever. I just can't imagine still doing that. I, I have so much respect for people that can physically do it because I just don't know if I, I could being on your feet all day and, you know, I 100% respect for for all of those folks out there that are helping us enjoy our experience.

00;44;58;12 - 00;45;10;25
Jessie
I'm sure that, you know, the industry is really behind that as well. How, how did you get involved with tales of the cocktails? Because it looks like you've been involved for quite some time.

00;45;10;28 - 00;45;38;24
Claire
Yeah, I the first time I went to test the cocktail, I was completely blown away. And I think it was I think it was maybe 2007. I went for the first time and it's just celebrated its 21st anniversary. So I've been going pretty much every year apart from the COVID years. And and then even one of those was we did a digital version.

00;45;38;24 - 00;46;14;13
Claire
So it's just such an incredible organization. And the last few years has really just changed how so? The last few years when there's been it isn't now a new a new ownership. So now it's a foundation, a nonprofit foundation, and it has been for the last five or five years, and they just do incredible work. And I have always spoken at Tales and it's really done fantastic things with my career.

00;46;14;16 - 00;46;54;06
Claire
And then I think the last ten years I've sat on various education committees and led the Beyond the Bar Education Committee. So that's very close to my heart. And then the last few years led the Culture Committee, which speaks more broadly about the culture battles and then the new found the new owners of Time's The Cocktail, the Solomon family, who are family from New Orleans, who wanted to invest in the inn into the cocktail as a way to really preserve that festival for New Orleans.

00;46;54;06 - 00;47;28;08
Claire
It brings in just under last year it brought in $21.9 million into New Orleans. For that week wow. So it has huge economic impact for the city at a time when the hospitality industry in New Orleans is incredibly quiet. So very, very important to the Sullivan family that they worked hard to protect. Has the cocktail and and then in doing so, they obviously there's a board of directors and I was asked to join that board at 18 months ago.

00;47;28;08 - 00;48;01;21
Claire
Now. And myself and two other hospitality professionals also sit on that board of directors, directors. So we we there's four people who are very much involved with bars. Bartenders, hospitality have come either from France or from the bar community. And so we can hopefully help lead and shape where the cocktail is going and keep it very much rooted in in bartenders and advocacy and education.

00;48;01;23 - 00;48;19;00
Claire
So it's the mission of the cocktail to advance support and educate the communities that we touch. And we are very, very involved in many communities all over the world, not just in the US. So it's it's a great organization to be part of.

00;48;19;02 - 00;48;29;19
Jessie
Yeah, that's fantastic. I didn't know how involved it was. I, I remember going with Remy back in Oh, the early 2000 maybe.

00;48;29;21 - 00;48;30;09
Claire
Yeah.

00;48;30;11 - 00;48;51;02
Jessie
Like 2000 to 3, maybe five. So early on. Yeah, it was early. I was with our national count team at that point. It's my first job in the industry. Um, but yeah, so that's been a long, it's been going a long time. You said it was 20 years, so yeah, it must have been one of the first years then.

00;48;51;04 - 00;49;03;16
Jessie
Oh it was, Yeah. And obviously as involved as it is now, I mean gosh I went to the website and I can't believe how many events are going on throughout the whole week. It's, it's incredible.

00;49;03;18 - 00;49;54;18
Claire
Yeah, it's, it started its life as a walking tour really just acknowledging that New Orleans is the home of the American cocktail and you know, just the the original founders of Times the Cocktail would take cocktail enthusiasts and then bartenders and then brands on these walking tour experiences. And then so then there were seminars I did and some events I did, and it's just grown over the last 21 years, and I think we welcomed something like 20,000 bartenders, professionals, producers, brands in to New Orleans every week, 68 seminars touching on the ball, culture bars, business of bars, meet the producers, meet the authors.

00;49;54;18 - 00;50;15;28
Claire
You know, it's a really incredible way for all communities to come together and interact with one another. You know, going back to that point I made about is a human industry. You know, it's very much about relationships and you, me and how you network and, you know, the the number of job opportunities that come up, I think, during times are crazy.

00;50;15;28 - 00;50;46;01
Claire
You know, there's such a lot of networking happening. And then we have this incredible cocktail apprentice program and programs, sort of 60 plus bartenders from all over the world come into New Orleans to help really run that that week long program. So creating the cocktails, managing the the transition between seminar rooms. We had a pop up this year with some fantastic Singaporean bars.

00;50;46;03 - 00;51;09;24
Claire
They sent in all of the fantastic cocktail ingredients that needed to be prepped and batch and our ten apprentices did all of that. So and that small community of bartenders. So the 61st bartenders that do programs, you know, that's a small networking opportunity for those guys. And then there's a lot of an alumni every year and they all interact with each other.

00;51;09;24 - 00;51;28;21
Claire
So act like a sort of many mini apprentice program, not even a mini, but an apprentice program for bartenders to really level up their knowledge and meet bartenders from all over the world. So it touches so many different parts of the industry that it's an incredibly powerful program.

00;51;28;24 - 00;51;37;28
Jessie
Would it be something that I where I could come in and just take and learn bartending and learn a class like that, or is it more involved than that?

00;51;38;01 - 00;52;13;00
Claire
It's so the so the program is do you need to apply in order to be considered for that program. But the cocktail seminars. Yeah there's like all sorts of topics covered so very much sort of deep dive into cocktail ingredients, historical look at ingredients that that you're perhaps aware of techniques, seminars if you want to learn how to surveyed or if you want to learn how to you know distill or if you want to learn how to blend whiskey.

00;52;13;00 - 00;52;33;16
Claire
You know, we have lots of techniques, seminars as well. So I think from from that from a beginner or to a seasoned bartender, you're always going to come to test the cocktail and learn something. And if you aren't able to come physically to New Orleans, it's still a bunch of resources that are available online on the website.

00;52;33;19 - 00;52;56;03
Jessie
Okay. Yeah, it's pretty involved. I was pretty impressed. I hadn't I been in the military side of the business for so long that I was excited to kind of start looking at what events were still going on. And obviously Tales are going, so I'm definitely going to go next year, right? This is not the year for me to travel, but next year I'd like to get out and and meet you.

00;52;56;06 - 00;53;17;21
Jessie
Yeah. And meet people, you know, in the industry there too. I remember it was a lot of fun. You know, people rented out homes and had, like, happy Hours where they had featured cocktails and you could just kind of walk through the neighborhood and there'd be a party. And it was it was really fun. It was really, really well done.

00;53;17;21 - 00;53;19;25
Jessie
So I'm sure it's even more so now.

00;53;19;27 - 00;53;39;08
Claire
Yeah. I mean, the festival is based in the French Quarter of New Orleans, so if you've been, you'll know that it's a very beautiful part of New Orleans. The historic part, no lanes. And you can literally walk to most of the bars and the locations where everything kind of happens. And we partnered with the Ritz Hotel, the Ritz Carlton Hotel.

00;53;39;08 - 00;54;06;01
Claire
So it's a really great base for which is the Ritz Carlton is based in the French Quarter and it's a really great hub, but yeah, there's a it's a great way to explore New Orleans and it's brilliant, brilliant city to visit anyway, you know, very much focus on the culinary experiences. So yeah, I mean, I would say to anyone listening or watching, please do consider it.

00;54;06;01 - 00;54;13;04
Claire
If you are into cocktails in any capacity, you know, it's a fantastic place to come and learn more.

00;54;13;06 - 00;54;23;10
Jessie
Yeah, definitely. So have you had any mentors that have helped you throughout your career that you want to talk about or mention?

00;54;23;13 - 00;54;28;01
Claire
Oh gosh, so many. So many.

00;54;28;08 - 00;54;30;08
Jessie
That's good to hear. I'm happy to hear that.

00;54;30;10 - 00;55;08;15
Claire
Yeah, I would give a couple a shout outs. I think one that really stands out is a guy called Charles Gibbs, who is the CEO of Fever-Tree U.S. now. But at the time when we were together, he was the president of Belvedere and a huge, huge cheerleader of mine always really understood what I was trying to do, where I was trying to go with my career and, you know, helped, I think, coach me in many ways to be successful in a corporate structure.

00;55;08;18 - 00;55;45;27
Claire
Having been a bartender moving from the bar world into an organization like Moet Hennessy or LVMH can be a challenging transition to make. And he he understood what the qualities that I was bringing from the bar world and then how to apply them in in that corporate world and how to make that transition as smooth as possible. And I see how he mentors and coaches, so many people in our industry, not just me, but I think many people that he's worked with.

00;55;45;27 - 00;56;12;27
Claire
He's he's a real cheerleader, champion for for so many people in this business and actually particularly women in the business. You know, I was one of the very few women that sat in or executive sat on the executive executive committee at Belvedere. And that is I said, going from bartender into corporate. And then also being in the C-suite was another transition, which was pretty tough.

00;56;12;27 - 00;56;16;13
Claire
But he yeah, he really is. He's done a good job.

00;56;16;13 - 00;56;25;00
Jessie
The hardest part to transition besides the hours. I mean, 95.

00;56;25;02 - 00;57;14;24
Claire
What was the hardest part? Oh, I think that's I, I would I'm not a very good poker player. If I don't like something, you'll know. And I think in in that business it's important that you understand how to communicate constructively when there's likely to be a conflict. And I learned that from Charles Charles So lots of you know, communication, how to communicate effectively, how to lead with integrity, how to enable other people to see your vision, even if it is not their shared vision.

00;57;14;27 - 00;57;48;28
Claire
All of those skills he taught me. And ultimately, it really, really does come down to clear consistent communication. He himself is from the military, so he he understood why it was so important that we all understood what we were all doing and how we could communicate effectively with one another. So I think that was what he taught me, is like you know, the the the key to to success is through clear, clear and consistent communication really.

00;57;49;00 - 00;57;50;19
Jessie
And yeah, that makes as.

00;57;50;21 - 00;57;54;27
Claire
As unemotional as possible.

00;57;55;00 - 00;58;21;24
Jessie
Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough one that can get. Yeah. You know, he can get irritated sometimes. I can only imagine like just, just the, just the surroundings and the blinders and they don't mean to, but they don't know. They're not out and about like you were. So you being on about and seeing and knowing all these things and then, then you're like, I'm sure that was kind of hard for you both to kind of come together.

00;58;21;24 - 00;58;31;12
Jessie
So I'm glad you had someone that could kind of mentor that process because, I mean, you know, you when you work for a company, you know how marketing and sales are.

00;58;31;14 - 00;58;34;15
Claire
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're I didn't know. Yeah,

00;58;34;15 - 00;59;03;22
Claire
we get really obsessed with and rightly so. We get very we're very passionate about our creativity and we are creatives fundamentally. And I think what he also taught me was you can have an incredible idea. It's a very creative idea. But is it is it a commercially sound idea? Will it connect with what the consumers looking for, not only about bartenders and cocktail enthusiasts, but will it land in a consumer's life and make a difference?

00;59;04;00 - 00;59;23;17
Claire
And that is the very important part that we sometimes forget. We get excited with this fantastic cool idea that might be very deep and it won't translate into a commercial success, which ultimately, you know, these big corporate structures are commercial entities. And so all of those things need to to link up.

00;59;23;19 - 00;59;29;20
Jessie
Yeah, yeah. No, that's that's very true. Is there anyone anyone else.

00;59;29;22 - 01;00;05;19
Claire
Yes. So, Lauren, Lauren Mote who you might know, Lauren Mote is Director of Advocacy for Patron Tequila Global Director of Advocacy for Patron. And she is a dear, dear friend, but another incredible mentor and coach. I think for me, Lauren has helped me find a lot of it, is sometimes this business can be very tough and it can wear you down a little bit.

01;00;05;19 - 01;00;29;00
Claire
And she's a real she's a person that I turn to when I need a confidence boost or my self esteem is taken a bit of a knock. And, you know, she's an incredible advocate for many, many people in our business. But again, you know, women in the business, she she's a real mentor to many of us. So, yeah, she's a she's a great person.

01;00;29;00 - 01;00;56;09
Claire
She's got multiple wears, multiple hats, does I don't know where she finds the time. She has multiple businesses. She's not only global advocacy director for Petron, but also has a business called better fitted lane. So range of fantastic bitters that she's had for over ten years now. So yes so she's really well dialed into the community and always important to the corporate world.

01;00;56;09 - 01;01;05;12
Claire
So she knows, she knows the whole the whole gamut of of issues and challenges that we have to face.

01;01;05;15 - 01;01;08;23
Jessie
That's cool. Is she based in Houston?

01;01;08;26 - 01;01;28;26
Claire
She is based in Amsterdam, and she travels probably 80% of the time. So she's she's a very busy person. Yeah. So she she's but she's all over the place and that's probably one of the reasons why she's so she's such a well-loved mentor because she gets to see so many people face to face. She's she's nonstop.

01;01;28;28 - 01;01;35;15
Jessie
Yeah, that sounds like a really challenging job to be on the road. 80% is really tough.

01;01;35;18 - 01;01;51;13
Claire
Very tough. Yeah. With a family. Well, as a family, as a husband and a loving dog. Which is your family, of course. But. Yes, but she's. But she's a force. She's a formidable force in the business and very lucky to call her friend.

01;01;51;16 - 01;01;53;14
Jessie
Was she at Tales?

01;01;53;16 - 01;02;21;03
Claire
Of course, yes. She ran an amazing seminar called The Mob of Mentors. So she gathered 12, 12, 12 mentors together and they all gave a talk up on stage, a six minute talk each where they talked about what mentoring meant to them and what mentoring that sort of mentoring approach. And it was fascinating and fascinating. So whistle stop tour of all these different mentors and they're very different distinct approaches.

01;02;21;05 - 01;02;30;03
Claire
And then she also did a really, really great seminar on premium premiumization, which is what's driving a lot of the growth in the spirits category at the moment.

01;02;30;05 - 01;02;35;28
Jessie
Yeah, very cool. I hope I get a chance to meet her someday. Yeah.

01;02;35;29 - 01;02;38;16
Claire
Yeah. I love you. She's amazing.

01;02;38;19 - 01;02;47;28
Jessie
Yeah, that'd be great. I love Amsterdam. I've been there, like, four or five times. I love that city. I just want to go and live there for, like, a month.

01;02;48;01 - 01;03;12;02
Claire
And I know if you do that, you'll have to go and visit another fantastic person, Tess Posthumus, who runs the Flying Dutchman or owns the Flying Dutchman cocktail bar. And she's a brilliant author as well. So she's she's she's she's another person that sits on the Board of Directors for Tails of the Cocktail. So very important person in our industry.

01;03;12;02 - 01;03;13;11
Claire
Yeah.

01;03;13;13 - 01;03;17;09
Jessie
Awesome. I'm learning so much from you today.

01;03;17;12 - 01;03;21;03
Claire
Yes. You must talk about you want to talk about it.

01;03;21;04 - 01;03;22;25
Jessie
So it's fun.

01;03;22;28 - 01;03;50;29
Claire
But there's just so many names, so many great people in our industry. They all do so much. And I think the nice thing about the industry is that although it feels vast, it's actually pretty small. So if your yeah, if you're listening, you're like, Oh, I'd love to meet that person. You should always be able to kind of reach out on Instagram and get a nice response because I think most of us have done that in the past as a way to build on that, build our careers or or learn something or know somebody.

01;03;51;02 - 01;04;07;00
Claire
And I hope, you know, if anybody wants to reach out to me or can help anybody's career and and please feel free. But I do feel that most people in the industry like to help each other out. And again, it comes back to us being so very much driven by hospitality.

01;04;07;02 - 01;04;30;16
Jessie
Yeah, that's true. I guess I never thought of it that way because, you know, the one thing that's very consistent with this podcast is when, when the topic of mentoring comes up, they're like, just call and talk to anybody. People are we're we're all here to help each other out. It's, you know, it's one of those things I didn't think of it as being a hospitality side of it, but you're you're definitely coming from that side.

01;04;30;16 - 01;04;32;26
Jessie
So it makes total it makes total sense.

01;04;32;28 - 01;04;59;23
Claire
Yeah. Yeah. Make it nice. And there's this so much learning that happens on both sides of that mentor mentee relationship. So, you know, I always think don't, don't feel weird about reaching out because if you reach out to me and we begin a mentoring relationship, you're going to teach me a bunch as well. So it tends to benefit both parties in that mentor mentee relationship.

01;04;59;25 - 01;05;02;12
Jessie
Yeah, I love that. I'm going to have to find somebody.

01;05;02;14 - 01;05;07;01
Claire
To mentor, but those are always open.

01;05;07;01 - 01;05;11;23
Jessie
Jessie All right, great. You're. You're raising your hand.

01;05;11;25 - 01;05;12;24
Claire
Yep.

01;05;12;26 - 01;05;35;13
Jessie
I could learn. I like I was telling Claire before we started that I think I'm going to dedicate this years of podcast to the bartenders side of the business because I'm absolutely fascinated. It's. Yeah, it's hard work. It's a lot of fun. Like you said, you've you've mentioned creativity a whole bunch of times. I think that's what's really fun about it.

01;05;35;16 - 01;05;57;02
Jessie
I think it's never been a better time probably to be behind the bar just because of so many fun things that are exploding with the night and the low. No. And all that kind of, you know, all those movements. So, yeah, you know, I, I would love to learn from you because I'm so obsessed with understanding. Well, why did you do that?

01;05;57;02 - 01;06;16;09
Jessie
Like, how did like, we didn't even get a chance to talk to your products yet that you created and the ingredients that go into it, like, how do you know an ACORN is going to give you the bitter Like, that's that's the bitter. You need to go into this ingredient? I am fascinated and just absolutely fascinated by that.

01;06;16;11 - 01;06;41;25
Claire
You know, I think the short answer is like read a lot. That is, you know, so it came from a very old Herbal remedy book, and actually so did ACORN. We found a recipe for ACORN wine buried in the back of the of distiller after distillation. And we were like, what is equal wine tastes like? And it tastes really bizarre and not great.

01;06;41;27 - 01;07;09;03
Claire
But, you know, it starts you thinking about, well, what if I was to create some of these things now using the ingredients that we have available to us? So there's use all of the wonderful resources that we have in life in the form of books are the modern books that are available now or even in the library, or digging back through the history books to see what people were drinking 100 years ago or even more, is often a great source of inspiration.

01;07;09;06 - 01;07;24;15
Jessie
Yeah, yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. ACORN. Yes, that's her. Just love it. Any any resources or anything that you want to share that kind of helped you along your journey?

01;07;24;18 - 01;08;03;07
Claire
Oh, wow. I think online have a look around the tells the website because there's so much on there and there's there's there's interviews, podcasts, videos, longform content, tons of stuff there. I would say the Diageo Bar Academy is another great place, particularly if you're interested in Nolo, There's a bunch of resources around how to think about nolo cocktails or putting together a cocktail program and then, you know, Punch is a great resource again.

01;08;03;08 - 01;08;30;19
Claire
So historical, deep dives into, you know, unusual ingredients is often stuff in there that they write really basically about a bunch of different topics and yeah, ask, ask, asked, ask us bartenders, you know, reach out if you're curious about anything and think of us as a resource, you know, your fellow peers and hospitality folks, you know, we've all got something to teach each other.

01;08;30;21 - 01;08;48;01
Jessie
Yeah, I love that. So what is your I mean, we've talked a lot about low and no and how that's going to grow. Is there anything else that you're seeing as a trend or anything coming to light that you see as becoming a new trend?

01;08;48;03 - 01;09;22;22
Claire
I think we're placing a lot of focus on know Abby over the last few years, and I think we're starting to see the emergence of some quite nice low ABV products. So I think that's an area to watch. I think that we're also seeing a ton of tequila interest. The tequila is going through the roof. But what I would say now is that we're seeing, you know, other products from from agave that are starting to become a little less nation, a bit more interesting.

01;09;22;24 - 01;09;28;05
Claire
Mexico is the obvious one, but as a bunch of other delicious things that come from the McGarvey.

01;09;28;07 - 01;09;35;19
Jessie
I can't wait for that either. I had a couple on here that talked about Raicilla.

01;09;35;21 - 01;09;56;20
Claire
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a that's kind of like new. I mean, when we look at some of the trends is what's driving the majority of growth at the moment is, as I mentioned, premium premiumization. So some ultra luxury spirits and then lower low. But I would say that we're seeing within very dominant spirit categories more fragmentation.

01;09;56;20 - 01;10;23;13
Claire
So, you know, within tequila or with agave, you know, you're getting more sort of like niche products emerging that maybe wouldn't have been wouldn't have got any traction a few years ago. But we've got a more engaged, more discerning consumer and an a bartender that wants to differentiate their drinks offerings are looking for these more niche products as a way to point out that the distinctiveness.

01;10;23;16 - 01;10;58;29
Claire
So I think we're going to get a lot more movement within categories. That's going to be really, really fascinating. And as long as we've got a brilliant ball community who can help the consumer understand the differences between these right and more niche products, then and we'll be fine. But I think ultimately COVID, although a terrible time for many people, for many of us and for hospitality, it did supercharge the consumer's interest around drinks in general, no and no specifically, but drinks in general.

01;10;58;29 - 01;11;07;26
Claire
So we've got coming out of COVID a slightly more discerning consumer. You are looking for great new interesting options.

01;11;07;29 - 01;11;19;28
Jessie
So you think the consumer there's like a trend for consumers to get more educated and to get more, more wrapped around the brand in the brand story?

01;11;20;00 - 01;11;53;18
Claire
Yeah, 100%. Yes. So we've seen an uptick, a huge uptick in consumers taking the WSC to level two spirits qualification. So that that is an indicator that the consumer is becoming more interested, definitely more awareness around spirits. Again, this this insight comes from the city. More and more interest in spirits. Wine is slowing down, but off a huge base.

01;11;53;21 - 01;12;23;00
Claire
But WSET in spirits is is growing exponentially. So yeah we're seeing that and I think just looking at the media and the articles that are written about drinks these days are are not generic. They're speaking to specific trends and specific cocktails. And I think COVID helped a lot of consumers feel more confident about making drinks at home. So they set about their own sort of discovery and exploration at home.

01;12;23;00 - 01;12;27;07
Claire
So consequently, I feel more confident now in bottles.

01;12;27;10 - 01;12;33;00
Jessie
Yeah, that's true. I wish I had I did say the visit level three wine though.

01;12;33;02 - 01;12;38;22
Claire
Oh, congrats. Now you have to do level three spirits, which is a whole different based, apparently.

01;12;38;25 - 01;12;40;28
Jessie
Oh, is there a level three?

01;12;41;00 - 01;12;43;22
Claire
There is, yeah.

01;12;43;24 - 01;12;59;27
Jessie
Well, given that we went to Japan, I'm kind of obsessed with saké. So I was thinking about. I know they have a course in saké, so that would be very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that we have, do you think you know anything about saké? And then you go to Japan, you go. I don't know anything about that.

01;13;00;02 - 01;13;01;09
Jessie
Everything gets okay.

01;13;01;09 - 01;13;20;11
Claire
There. Yeah, exactly. No, that's a whole that's a whole other level. But yeah, that's a great course. I know the guy that wrote that and he's an absolute geek on Saki, so he really did a wonderful job in building that building that. WCT Well, W set course for you guys said I would highly recommend doing that.

01;13;20;13 - 01;13;38;13
Jessie
Okay. Yeah, maybe I should. Maybe I well, that's that's kind of gets me excited. You know, in terms of education, I think I've tapped out on the wine piece. Yeah. You know, at level three, I wanted to do level four, but it's just not, not, not the way forward for me. But I think this. Okay. Could be a lot of fun.

01;13;38;15 - 01;13;48;16
Claire
Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I don't know. Many circuit expert, so you'd be the first one. So definitely that's true niche there.

01;13;48;18 - 01;14;02;17
Jessie
We went and visited the first ever Saké Brewery. It was established in 1141. Wow. Oh yeah, Yeah, it was. It was very emotional. It was very cool, I bet.

01;14;02;17 - 01;14;05;18
Claire
Yeah. Fantastic. And are they still producing.

01;14;05;21 - 01;14;41;20
Jessie
Yeah they're it's unpasteurized they, they started that. Well they're the guy who gave us the tasting is the 55th generation of Sam Samurai Warriors and they've been doing this since 1141. I believe it was the ninth business in Japan. So yeah, it's, it was incredible. It was just a really cool experience. But I was, you know, now that I'm into reading about Saki, I'm in the airport on the way back and they're like, Yeah, unpasteurized saké should be kept cold.

01;14;41;20 - 01;14;45;21
Jessie
And because I was like, Oh, why are they giving me bottles that are cold?

01;14;45;23 - 01;14;49;18
Claire
Yeah, No.

01;14;49;20 - 01;14;57;20
Jessie
No. So anyway, they're in the fridge. We'll see. We'll see how they turn out. Anyway, tonight I've digressed. I am so sorry.

01;14;57;23 - 01;15;00;22
Claire
It's always fun.

01;15;00;24 - 01;15;27;06
Jessie
So this has been really fun. I really appreciate you taking the time to kind of tell your story and you've had an amazing journey. And thank goodness for for you, because I think you really did help bridge that gap, you know, and help with that movement of getting everybody kind of on the same page on how to how to move forward, you know, because there's a there's a lost in translation.

01;15;27;13 - 01;15;45;20
Jessie
You know, you get known. It's not anybody's fault. It's just kind of how how the business happens. You know, you you get into marketing and you stay in the marketing and then you jump around to different marketing companies and you don't you don't go out and sell, right? Yeah. When you're a salesperson, you're out selling and yeah, in, in.

01;15;45;20 - 01;16;06;05
Jessie
So that's what a unique opportunity for you to be actually not really marketing or sales. You're actually someone that's out there creating and doing on premise and to be able to go into that corporate, I bet there's like a 1% chance that 1% of people that could make that transition, because I think that would be very hard.

01;16;06;07 - 01;16;55;02
Claire
Hopefully more because we we do, I think, need people who have actually walked the walk to be able to to make what those corporations or those multinationals do more relevant to the consumer. And, you know, I think only through being actually on the front line can you really understand what the consumer's looking for. So either a marketing salesperson needs to spend an awful lot of time with the consumers understanding them fully, or we need to bring more people who have been on the front line into into those sort of corporate environments to help lead and shape the next generation of drinks, because I think they will be very, very different from what we're used to

01;16;55;02 - 01;17;20;17
Claire
currently. The the younger generations aren't drinking nearly as much and they're not drinking the same sorts of products, and they have different flavor profiles and different expectations. So we need to be aware of that so that we can continue to create the brands for the future and enable those those companies to stay relevant or new companies will emerge to take their places.

01;17;20;19 - 01;17;46;06
Jessie
Yeah, Yeah, that's true. I guess that's kind of the way that it's supposed to go, right? Everybody in changing that name, getting better and create a new brands, you know, there's that's, that's why I was so interested in doing this podcast is because, you know, there's there's no greater time than beverage innovation than now. And it's because of all the things that people have been doing for the last 20 or 30 years.

01;17;46;06 - 01;17;50;23
Jessie
And it just helps lay the foundation for what what it is today.

01;17;50;25 - 01;18;20;24
Claire
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. And it's going to go through another huge change, I think, over the next ten years just with how Gen Z and to an extent, you know, Gen A or alpha generation will, will interact with wine and spirits and drinks in general. They will have a very different impact than what the millennials or that later generations have had.

01;18;20;24 - 01;18;44;21
Claire
So I'm expecting tons of change, tons of innovation, tons of challenges, of course. But that's why I think, you know, it's it's incumbent on us to try and encourage many of the front line workers that, you know, to to to play a role in how we shape the drinks industry for the next generation and beyond.

01;18;44;23 - 01;18;52;21
Jessie
Yeah. Wow. I haven't thought about Gen A Oh, no.

01;18;52;23 - 01;19;02;29
Claire
I think Gen Gen Z is definitely making some inroads into changing the way reaching for the better. So yeah.

01;19;03;02 - 01;19;09;05
Jessie
Yeah. I guess when you the way you explained that it was, it was exciting and terrifying all at the same time.

01;19;09;07 - 01;19;09;20
Claire
Just.

01;19;09;22 - 01;19;16;08
Jessie
Because how is it going to change that much? Do we to change that much? But we're, we don't, it's not up to us.

01;19;16;10 - 01;19;39;17
Claire
So that just knows that it's up to them and you know, it's it will change it will change a lot. And we won't even get into A.I., which I don't think will have a massive impact on all hospitality venues. That could have an impact just in. So yeah, how brands are marketed and how we're how we interact with brands in the future.

01;19;39;17 - 01;20;02;07
Claire
But but I think there's going to be a ton of changes. And I think I read somewhere today that 88% of Gen Z are gamers. So, you know, it's like, where will Gen Z go to socially wise and might they not necessarily want to hang out in bars if they're gaming or will bars need to accommodate for that gaming population?

01;20;02;07 - 01;20;22;21
Claire
You know, does the interior of bars look different? How do we optimize hospitality for that new generation who might not necessarily want to have the same experience experiences that we have or have had? So I think there'll be a bunch of changes just as technology and hospitality begin to really merge.

01;20;22;23 - 01;20;49;20
Jessie
Yeah, that's fascinating because you know, our generation, I assume you're around my age. I mean, we played outside. Yeah, we had Nintendo and sorry, but we didn't have we didn't have a phone or, you know, we didn't get to watch a movie at dinner. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's something there. There's this digital component has been in their face since, you know, since the beginning.

01;20;49;20 - 01;20;58;12
Jessie
So I guess, you know, it is it will be interesting to see how these generation after generation kind of come up. And if it's gaming, then maybe.

01;20;58;12 - 01;21;27;18
Claire
Yeah, but that's why it so maybe that I think that that hospitality is optimized as a way to act as a as a you know, to try, to get people it needs to be and it is to optimize, you know, to get people away from the screen. Otherwise we will only end up socializing threes through screens because they are designed to, to keep our attention on them.

01;21;27;20 - 01;21;55;09
Claire
Whereas hospitality historically is designed to keep our attention on each other through to what we serve and through the environment that we create. And this in a way, unless we optimize hospitality, we won't be able to compete with the technology of it, of attention that the screens and the devices are designed to to direct our attention at them.

01;21;55;09 - 01;22;17;02
Claire
So we need to find ways to counteract that in what we do for our businesses. And, you know, great food and drink service is one aspect of that. What else can we do to appeal to a very attention retention, sort of distracted generation? Need to think about that.

01;22;17;04 - 01;22;23;03
Jessie
Yeah, well, that's that's, that's really cool. I haven't even I haven't even gone there.

01;22;23;06 - 01;22;26;14
Claire
And even think about it kind of go But you're.

01;22;26;16 - 01;22;35;17
Jessie
Yeah you're, you're, you're spot on. I yeah I guess that'll be my, you know my 3:00 in the thought one of these days.

01;22;35;20 - 01;22;37;01
Claire
And all about that.

01;22;37;04 - 01;22;44;08
Jessie
All right. Yeah. No I heard you have an idea that I would be perfect for these guys, for the gamers.

01;22;44;10 - 01;22;44;25
Claire
Yeah.

01;22;44;28 - 01;22;46;26
Jessie
Yeah. Anyway.

01;22;46;29 - 01;23;14;29
Claire
There's a social aspect to it, then that's all that matters. I think we. We just quickly. We don't realize how long it takes for us to mature. And part of being a human is that we, we, it takes us 20 plus years to kind of grow our human brain, to manage all of the social interactions that it has through being human and trust and of like gently navigate our lives smoothly without conflict.

01;23;14;29 - 01;23;50;08
Claire
And that 0 to 20 years is where we learn all of those social skills. It's all the social anthropologist Robin Dunbar calls the center of life. If we don't learn how to be social in real life, within social in the social world, we will find it very difficult to navigate adult life without conflict. So it's really, really important that we spend time with each other in real life, learning social cues and not spend all of our time on screens because that only will end up in an environment.

01;23;50;08 - 01;24;19;04
Claire
What is more, more and more complex. So that's why it's so important that hospitality is the place where we go to connect in real life, learn about each other, learn social cues, then social hygiene and navigate life's more smoothly. And that's why it's really, really important that we optimize hospitality for the greater good and not default to screens because that only leads to greater misunderstanding.

01;24;19;06 - 01;24;43;06
Jessie
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Well, very well put. I that was amazing. I love the way you're thinking. It's. It's incredible. There's been an absolute pleasure meeting you, Clare. I this has been really fun. I really appreciate it. I'm sure it's 1030 here Eastern, so I don't know. You're probably really close to the end of your day over there, but about ready for a little low.

01;24;43;07 - 01;24;44;16
Jessie
No happy hour.

01;24;44;19 - 01;24;58;17
Claire
Well, I've got time to walk the dog. He's been scratching on the door for the last 20 minutes, so he's obviously. Oh, no, no, no. It's good. And yes, then it will be time for the Oh, no. In my cocktail hour when I get back. Okay.

01;24;58;20 - 01;25;09;12
Jessie
I did forget to ask you did do you have a particular cocktail that you like to make or is a signature of yours?

01;25;09;14 - 01;25;38;05
Claire
I love It was. I'm crazy, actually. I love a martini. So we have a martini, a French door martini, my husband calls it. So it's a martini that's in the fridge, ready to go at any given moment. So you just take. Yeah, you take out you take a depends on how you drink your martini, but you take out we take out 50 mil of either gin of vodka and then replace, replace that 50 mil with the mousse and some water and then you can just pour it.

01;25;38;05 - 01;25;55;27
Claire
So you've got the dilutions, got the vermouth. It's ready to go. You don't even need a tin or a shaker for that. So that's my go to. Obviously Belvedere is in the fridge in the freezer for me. And my husband has some delicious Fords gin. So we've always got a martini in the freezer.

01;25;56;00 - 01;26;01;21
Jessie
Oh, I love that. Well, isn't number one cocktail the espresso martini?

01;26;01;23 - 01;26;14;16
Claire
Oh, that is a delicious drink as well. But I am so sensitive to caffeine that I can't really drink them, and I don't think that is delicious if you have a decaffeinated espresso martini. So I'll just go for the.

01;26;14;18 - 01;26;16;01
Jessie
Yeah. I don't know.

01;26;16;03 - 01;26;27;05
Claire
I don't either. I don't fancy ordering one, to be honest, but I'm missing the point. But yeah, I love them, but they're lethal for me, so I'll just. I'll go straight for the martini.

01;26;27;08 - 01;26;32;29
Jessie
Yeah, it sounds good. My my wife loves martinis, too. Buck martinis. I like gin. Yeah.

01;26;33;01 - 01;26;40;02
Claire
Yeah, yeah. I think same for my husband and I. I'm okay with a gin martini, but give me vodka.

01;26;40;04 - 01;26;46;20
Jessie
And your vodka girl, she is, too. Yeah. It's really the only spirit she'll drink.

01;26;46;22 - 01;27;10;00
Claire
Yeah, it's okay, style. And, you know, you can have you can have so much fun with Boca. And I like to see actually that having. Having kind of lost out over the last few years to gin in terms of the popularity. Well was vodka is on its way back and a whole new generation of consumers are learning to love vodka again which is cool.

01;27;10;03 - 01;27;19;26
Jessie
Yeah, I do too. It's just it's one of those things that it's kind of shocking, you know, because it's just it's how is vodka not growing? I don't get.

01;27;19;26 - 01;27;20;10
Claire
It.

01;27;20;12 - 01;27;23;11
Jessie
I love it. It's just so is there. But the good thing.

01;27;23;11 - 01;27;44;05
Claire
Is we got vodkas that are very much about flavor, texture, complexity now, which is driving a whole new conversation about vodka. There's not none of that. So like neutral, odorless, colorless, flavorless type, you know, vibe, it's a lot more about the antithesis to that, which is nice and exciting.

01;27;44;08 - 01;27;51;26
Jessie
Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, I will let you go. I'm sure your dog is ready to go on a walk.

01;27;51;29 - 01;27;53;06
Claire
If there's one.

01;27;53;13 - 01;27;58;07
Jessie
Thing I don't want to keep, keep him from walking, he or she from walking.

01;27;58;09 - 01;28;01;00
Claire
Okay, Jesse, I could talk to you for hours, but. Yeah.

01;28;01;02 - 01;28;03;02
Jessie
I know. I feel like we can just keep going.

01;28;03;04 - 01;28;06;00
Claire
Yeah.

01;28;06;02 - 01;28;11;14
Jessie
All righty. Well, I will say goodbye and wave goodbye. And so next time.

01;28;11;16 - 01;28;14;20
Claire
Until next year in action.

01;28;14;22 - 01;28;17;25
Jessie
Yes, You see you next year for sure.

01;30;06;14 - 01;30;16;06
Jessie
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