Thirsty Thursdays @3PM EST

[Replay] Kelley Jones Principal Kelley Jones Hospitality and President & COO of Hospitality Alliance

• Jessie Ott • Season 2 • Episode 11

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Kelley Jones 📽  Now on YouTube!  😁💃https://youtu.be/H0VYRwUPItE

📢I talk🎙️with  Kelley Jones Principal of Kelley Jones Hospitality, which focuses on F&B operations for on-premise venues, and President and CEO of Hospitality Alliance, a hospitality management, development, and consulting firm for the on-premise world from start to finish. 🎇 🎉 🍸✨ 👏

He started out at Pussers Rum 😋 and helped grow and open several locations which was the precursor to his career in the restaurant business. He had just opened his 106th restaurant at our recording in September 2023! He then jumped over to China Grill Management for nearly 5 years as Director of Development and Operations.

 He has many experiences in the on-premise world, including being President of Light Group, where he dipped his toe into nightlife establishments.🥂 🍻 
 
Kelley is so engrained in the business and operations side that if I were to open a new concept, he’d be my first phone call. He’s buttoned up on every level from conception, to funding, and understanding the brick and motor development to operations. When it comes to cocktails on their menu, he lets the bartender create one for each spirit, but they must be made within 30 seconds. Wow! 😲

For those of you looking for advice on restaurant 🍽 management, you don’t want to miss this episode!

Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes!

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Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn





00:00:02:07 - 00:00:17:05
Jessie
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessie Ott, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass. This week

00:00:17:05 - 00:00:30:19
Jessie
I'm speaking with Kelly Jones, principal of Kelly Jones Hospitality, which focuses on FMB operations for on premise venues and president and CEO of Hospitality Alliance, a hospitality management development and consulting firm

00:00:30:19 - 00:00:33:07
Jessie
for the on premise world from start to finish.

00:00:33:15 - 00:00:40:08
Jessie
He started out at Pussers Rum and helped grow and opened several locations, which was the precursor to his career in the restaurant business.

00:00:40:08 - 00:00:46:15
Jessie
he had just opened his 106th restaurant right at the time of our recording in September of 2023.

00:00:46:15 - 00:00:52:14
Jessie
He then jumped over to China Grill Management for nearly five years as director of development and Operations.

00:00:52:13 - 00:01:12:00
Jessie
Kelly has had many experiences in the on premise world, including being president of Light Group, where he dipped his toe into nightlife establishments. Kelly is so ingrained into the business and operation side. If I were to open a new concept, he'd be my very first phone call.

00:01:11:23 - 00:01:18:04
Jessie
He's buttoned up on every level from concept in funding, understanding the brick and mortar development to operations.

00:01:18:05 - 00:01:26:02
Jessie
When it comes to cocktails on their menu, he lets the bartender create one for each spirit. But they have to be made within 30 seconds.

00:01:26:16 - 00:01:32:01
Jessie
Those of you looking for advice on restaurant management, you don't want to miss this episode.

00:01:32:01 - 00:01:36:08
Jessie
Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes.

00:01:37:09 - 00:01:53:12
Kelley
Great. Great. How are you?

00:01:53:14 - 00:02:00:00
Kelley
I am in Las Vegas, Nevada, where I'm based.

00:02:00:02 - 00:02:04:02
Kelley
But I love.

00:02:04:04 - 00:02:12:03
Kelley
I love living here. I moved here in 1998, hoping Mandalay Bay kicking and screaming, said I'd go for one year and I ended up here for.

00:02:12:03 - 00:02:13:12
Kelley
Five months before.

00:02:13:13 - 00:02:24:03
Kelley
Been back for 18 now.

00:02:24:05 - 00:02:25:05
Kelley
Oh, absolutely.

00:02:25:05 - 00:02:44:03
Kelley
And you know, it was great to watch it grow when I was like moved here. Mandalay Bay had just opened and they said that Mandalay Bay topped it out. You know, there wasn't going to be any more room for for hotel or restaurant growth. Then we opened Mandalay Bay and proved everybody wrong. But, you know, this is before Paris.

00:02:44:03 - 00:02:46:08
Kelley
Planet Hollywood City Center.

00:02:46:10 - 00:02:48:02
Kelley
Are.

00:02:48:04 - 00:02:53:12
Kelley
Wynn, Encore, Venetian palazzo. I mean, nothing was here.

00:02:53:14 - 00:02:54:00
Kelley
I moved.

00:02:54:00 - 00:03:03:07
Kelley
Here. There were 800,000 people. Now there's 2.3 million.

00:03:04:16 - 00:03:04:21
Kelley
Yeah.

00:03:04:23 - 00:04:09:02
Kelley
Great, great friend. Yeah. Tony. Tony is one of the good guys for sure. I'll tell you that. Tony. You've done some great things. He created the entire opening beverage program at the Bellagio, and in fact, I've hired him a couple of times over the years to do beverage training for my teams. Yeah, I grew up in New Jersey.

00:04:09:04 - 00:04:14:12
Kelley
That's where I started in the restaurant business at 14 years old, washing dishes in a Greek diner. And I worked there throughout my four.

00:04:14:13 - 00:04:16:14
Kelley
Years of high school.

00:04:16:16 - 00:04:27:16
Kelley
But then I ended up leaving right after high school. And gosh, I've been blessed. I've lived all over the world.

00:04:27:18 - 00:04:29:05
Kelley
All just.

00:04:29:07 - 00:04:49:07
Kelley
You know, I didn't get married till it's 42. I had, you know, God's got a great sense of humor. And I had my first child at 51 who's now eight years old. And, you know, so I was know I wasn't really good in school. In fact, I graduated to 58 out of 62 because I didn't learn the way they educate, which is orally and really I'm a kinesthetic learner.

00:04:49:07 - 00:05:13:13
Kelley
So that's why the restaurant and hospitality business is so great is because it's show to show do. So. You know, I went, you know, the traditional route, you know, dishwasher, busboy, you know, prep cook, line cooks to chef, executive chef. And when I was a chef, it was before, you know, now, gosh, I left the kitchen in the early nineties and that was before, you know, food, TV, celebrity chefs and all that.

00:05:13:13 - 00:05:14:21
Kelley
And.

00:05:14:22 - 00:05:15:07
Kelley
You know.

00:05:15:07 - 00:05:23:15
Kelley
It's funny because I tell people all the time, yeah, I used to be a chef like, Oh, wow, you were a chef that one time. When I was a chef, did anybody say, Oh, wow, you're a chef?

00:05:23:17 - 00:05:26:10
Kelley
Because that chefs were considered.

00:05:26:10 - 00:06:11:03
Kelley
Tradesmen like electrician or a plumber. And now, you know, it's cool to be in the restaurant business because, you know, 20 years ago, it's like you're in the restaurant business until you can get a real job and now, you know, there's a lot of credibility to hospitality. And I think it's a wonderful industry to be in. I think, yeah, it's it's always evolving.

00:06:11:03 - 00:06:45:06
Kelley
I mean, you know, you look back and, you know, the turn of the century, the Escoffier Times and the innovations he was doing, but, you know, Escoffier is still taught in every major culinary school today. So, you know, there's there's a certain, you know, principles and fundamental fundamentals of cooking that don't change. And, you know, as a chef, you know, you kind of get really art and crafty and, you know, start adding a lot of things and then as a I think you, you know, hone your craft, you realize, you know, that it's the individual ingredients and the quality of the ingredients that are the most important thing.

00:06:45:06 - 00:07:27:13
Kelley
Well, I left the kitchen in the 19th and then became a general manager, and then from there a multi-unit director. And from there, you know, a vice president and then the president of companies. And then 17 years ago, I went out on my own. So I have three different companies now, all in the hospitality sector. One is a company that operates three Ramen restaurants, two in Colorado, one of Vermont, and they've got another company that is more of a management company.

00:07:27:15 - 00:07:50:02
Kelley
And that company is Hospitality Alliance, where we focus on primarily food halls and hotel, food and beverage operations. And then, you know, my company, Kelly Jones hospitality, which everything flows into, is, you know, operations and consulting. I never got into it, you know, to consult because we always laughed at consultants. They were people that couldn't.

00:07:50:02 - 00:07:51:08
Kelley
Get a real job.

00:07:51:10 - 00:08:14:19
Kelley
But, you know, consulting, it's lucrative. And, you know, I get you know, we brought in a lot of times to do turnarounds of, you know, challenged operations and, you know, often brought in to get operations up and running. In fact, we're we've been working for the last 18 months with full house gaming, working and creating concepts for a property they have just north of Chicago in a big casino that they have there.

00:08:14:19 - 00:08:36:01
Kelley
So, you know, we've got a couple of Airstreams, a coffee and a bar Airstream, a main casino bar, and then three restaurants.

00:08:36:03 - 00:08:37:03
Kelley
Well, that's what keeps it.

00:08:37:04 - 00:09:11:04
Kelley
That's what keeps it fresh and fun instead of doing the same thing. In fact, our ramen shops are the only concepts that we have that are multiple of the same. Other than that, every other one is a one off, you know, just in the country down in Dallas, working out of food hall in Napa, California, we were engaged before COVID on three other food halls, but we've done a lot of stuff here in Vegas.

00:09:11:04 - 00:09:42:21
Kelley
We master planned the food hall at the Commons, which is a mixed use restaurant retail community that opened in the west side of the valley. And ironically, right across the street, we master plan the food hall at the soon to open Durango stations with stations casino.

00:09:42:23 - 00:09:45:01
Kelley
Yeah, well, I mean, I moved here.

00:09:45:03 - 00:10:08:03
Kelley
I moved here to open Mandalay Bay and I was there for five years. We had four concepts back when we opened Mandalay Bay in 1999, a restaurant that turned into a nightclub called Rum Jungle Red Square, China Grill. I worked for trying to grow management for five years and opened 26 over those five years for them all over the world.

00:10:08:05 - 00:10:29:18
Kelley
So Mexico City, London, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, Miami and here in Vegas. No, I took care of my bakery here. You know, when you say, where do I live? I live on American Airlines. My stuff is here in Vegas. So I travel a lot.

00:10:29:20 - 00:10:30:05
Kelley
For the last.

00:10:30:05 - 00:10:37:13
Kelley
30 years, I've been on the road, you know, typically about 50% of the time.

00:10:37:15 - 00:10:40:06
Kelley
But I'm going to do it.

00:10:40:08 - 00:10:57:14
Kelley
You know? So it's fun. You know, I love it. I do. It's not fun. Now, having an eight year old, I couldn't imagine doing this without time of face time because at least I get to talk to him every morning and every night. But, you know, I mean, I now I'm at a point where I'm not going for two, three, four weeks, a month or two at a time.

00:10:57:16 - 00:11:19:00
Kelley
I'm sending other people, you know. So typically, unless it's an opening where I'm there for a couple of weeks, I'm only there for a few nights.

00:11:19:02 - 00:11:31:14
Kelley
Yeah.

00:11:31:16 - 00:11:50:12
Kelley
Well, so, you know, I've, I've opened concepts in London. We did two hotel restaurants there, Mexico City, but I've lived in my life. After I left New Jersey, I traveled in a van behind this little band called the Grateful Dead for a couple of years. And we are we.

00:11:50:12 - 00:11:52:21
Kelley
Got yeah, we got we got jobs.

00:11:52:21 - 00:11:59:18
Kelley
In restaurants because restaurants are always hiring. And you could eat for free. Having a van and eating for free is a really good perk. So I ended up in.

00:11:59:20 - 00:12:01:08
Kelley
Pensacola, Florida for a year.

00:12:01:08 - 00:12:21:17
Kelley
And then down to Key West, Florida for two years and then up to New York City from New York City. I lived in from 90 to 98. I lived in the U.S. Virgin Islands for a year and a half. And then for six and a half years in the British Virgin Islands, working for a rum company called Putters Rum, where we had a bunch of restaurants around the world.

00:12:21:19 - 00:12:49:20
Kelley
And then from there I ended up moving back and taking about eight months off and lived in Charleston, South Carolina, and then ended up moving to Las Vegas to open Mandalay Bay. And in 2003 I was recruited by Kimpton Hotels. I moved to San Francisco and was vice president of restaurant operations for Kimpton Hotels for two years. And then Stephen Star out of Philadelphia recruited me to be his VP of Ops to grow him out of Philadelphia.

00:12:49:20 - 00:13:16:15
Kelley
So we opened Budokan to Morimoto in New York City. We opened to two kind of continental and Atlantic City, and then the Light Group, who I knew, the owners approached me to move back to Las Vegas as president of the Light Group, which is a, you know, restaurant nightlife lifestyle company that is no longer they've been purchased. And, you know, after nine months with them at the opportunity, my first restaurant.

00:13:16:17 - 00:13:46:08
Kelley
And so I left in 2008 and I've been on my own ever since I opened a restaurant called Sweet and Tender, which is a softer, more feminine approach to a steakhouse in San Diego in the Gaslamp District. It was a softer approach. So when I say a feminine approach, it's, you know, less large. You know, large. We had more composed plates, so it wasn't a big hunk of steak.

00:13:46:08 - 00:14:18:03
Kelley
And then you have to order your sides and pay more for it. So the check average is a little bit lower. It was more composed plates. It was certainly meat focused, but, you know, it was more thoughtfully laid out. So and we did all kinds of things, not just steaks. So we had a lot of, you know, pork and duck and chicken and other other meats, short ribs, oxtails.

00:14:18:05 - 00:14:19:08
Kelley
I think, you know.

00:14:19:10 - 00:14:38:19
Kelley
Anytime you do a restaurant, you know, you have to every restaurant does 95% of everything the same way, right? So, you know, you have to figure out that 5%, you know, what I call the memorable moments, You know, what are the things that you're doing that nobody's ever seen before, that nobody's ever done before? And it doesn't have to be contrived.

00:14:38:19 - 00:14:59:09
Kelley
It can be something you know, it's pretty natural. So, you know, we've you know, we try to create those memorable moments, sweet, tender. We had a Roman cocktail card, so we brought the cart right to your table. We had six specialty cocktails that we made right there at the table, right in front of you. So those are the things that, you know, you want to you want to try.

00:14:59:09 - 00:15:03:10
Kelley
Listen, there's no such thing as copywriting ideas. So, you know, you.

00:15:03:10 - 00:15:04:04
Kelley
See ideas.

00:15:04:04 - 00:15:33:06
Kelley
That other people are doing. It's like, that's a great idea. Let me, you know, think to, you know, how do I make it even better than that and then call it my own? So it's it's what? No difference for speed scratching the kitchen where you buy something that's really good, that's as good as anything you can make, and then you alter it to make it your own.

00:15:33:08 - 00:15:56:11
Kelley
Well, you know, let me qualify. You know, I opened a restaurant in New York City, gosh, over 20 years ago with a lot to cost the most celebrated Michelin starred chef in the world. And, you know, as we're going through the opening and they're doing menu tastings, I watching him pull up deli glass, you know, that's already made out of a out of a container off, you know, off a shelf in the walk.

00:15:56:11 - 00:16:00:23
Kelley
And he go to stir it into a soft like a chef. You don't make your own demi glaze. And in his.

00:16:01:02 - 00:16:02:12
Kelley
Dick transaction, he said.

00:16:02:18 - 00:16:20:12
Kelley
Why would I make something that I can buy as good as anything I could make? You know, I know if you don't know deli glaze, you know, it's you know, you're you're roasting veal bones and then, you know, you put them into a stock, it glaze it, you reduce it for for, you know, a day and then you strain it, reduce it even more.

00:16:20:17 - 00:16:59:22
Kelley
And it's really labor intensive. And, you know, you can buy it might be a little bit more expensive, but it certainly cut down on labor. So why wouldn't you do that? You know, you could take a ten step recipe, cut two steps out of it, and still come up with the same end result. Why wouldn't you do that?

00:17:00:00 - 00:17:04:18
Kelley
Yeah, well, that's training your your team to not be lazy, you know, you know, throw.

00:17:04:18 - 00:17:06:00
Kelley
A ball on the pot.

00:17:06:02 - 00:17:11:23
Kelley
And if you got a spatula and you could, you know, scrape three extra portions out of it, you know that that's all in trading.

00:17:15:08 - 00:17:30:13
Kelley
As a restaurant owner that's had a lot of success and a lot of failure, I can tell you, I don't care how good your food is. I don't care how great your beverages. I don't care how beautiful your room is or how great your services. If you're not making money, it's not that good, because at the end of the day, we're.

00:17:30:13 - 00:17:32:01
Kelley
A business and.

00:17:32:01 - 00:17:53:10
Kelley
It comes down to it. You know, when I do our consulting gigs, you know, I talk to the owners that are hiring us. It's like, I wear your hat. I know what it's like to have to put a cash call in to cover payroll. I know what it's like to, you know, have negative panels, which means, you know, not only did you not make money, but, you know, you you had to put money into the business to keep it open.

00:17:53:12 - 00:18:02:10
Kelley
And I closed businesses. I had a restaurant with the celebrity chef that I won't name that was open for six months. Grand opening, grand closing. It was losing money and I wasn't willing to.

00:18:02:10 - 00:18:02:22
Kelley
Put any more.

00:18:02:22 - 00:18:13:03
Kelley
Money into it when I was asked, Aren't you going to be worried what people will say? I'm like, Not really, because I'm not willing to keep losing money in this venture. So it is a big.

00:18:13:04 - 00:18:13:17
Kelley
Risk first.

00:18:13:17 - 00:19:03:02
Kelley
And foremost. And, you know, I always love to you know, with chefs, yes, it's your art, it's your craft. But if you're losing money every day, then you know that business can make an end of your day and stay in business forever. It loses a penny a day. At some point, it's going to go out of business.

00:19:03:04 - 00:19:05:08
Kelley
I've just lost.

00:19:05:10 - 00:19:19:19
Kelley
Oh, absolutely. And there's this there's a science behind it, you know, whether it's, you know, doing a pro forma because what investors want to see long, long gone are the 100 page, you know, business plans that nobody's looking at right now.

00:19:19:19 - 00:19:20:10
Kelley
They want to.

00:19:20:11 - 00:19:37:21
Kelley
They want to see three things. They want to they want to understand what you're trying to do. So we do that in the concept deck. They want to understand what their money's going to and when they're going to get it back. So you got to do a full financial model for them and they want to know the team that's going to execute on it.

00:19:37:23 - 00:19:47:10
Kelley
And, you know, that's really what it takes. In fact, we're doing a big restaurant, 244 seat restaurant on the strip right now that I can't talk about. But.

00:19:47:12 - 00:19:48:06
Kelley
You know, we.

00:19:48:08 - 00:20:02:12
Kelley
We were brought in and it's very, you know, very methodical, you know, critical path. Exactly. You know, what you do and how you do it. I just opened my 106th restaurant of my career two weeks ago.

00:20:02:14 - 00:20:08:12
Kelley
100 and Yeah. So, you know, but that's good.

00:20:08:14 - 00:21:01:23
Kelley
That's a combination of restaurants, bars, lounges, nightlife, hotels, you know, So it's not just, you know, a cookie cutter one off, but every time you open, you learn something new. You know, there's not many first for me anymore in this industry. I've been doing this for four years. And, you know, but when you do an opening, quite often it's like, wow, I never saw that before.

00:21:02:01 - 00:21:04:03
Kelley
Well.

00:21:04:05 - 00:21:27:03
Kelley
First and foremost, you have to understand your market. You know, you can't go into a market you haven't been before without doing a deep dive and realizing what works and what doesn't work in that market. You know, you can have the greatest concept in the world, but if people don't understand it, it's not that great a concept. And I've learned a long time ago, it's not our job to educate the public, give the public what the public wants.

00:21:27:05 - 00:21:37:13
Kelley
So if you're going to go into a market, let's say in key West, Florida, and you don't have counterfeiters, you know, I mean, that's that's why that's why they're all over the market.

00:21:37:15 - 00:21:39:01
Kelley
But, you know, you know.

00:21:39:03 - 00:21:56:06
Kelley
You can't you can't cramped, you know, a square into a round hole. So you really have to all have to line up. And, you know, I always my one of my favorite quotes is success is a result of good judgment. Good judgment is the result of experience. And experience is often the result of bad judgment. And, you know, you learn from your failures.

00:21:56:06 - 00:22:15:06
Kelley
You know, I've had restaurants that I put money into that failed and you take something away each time that happens is what did we do wrong? We had a restaurant with Jeffrey Kerkorian in South Beach. We opened up at the Dream Hotel on South Beach, and Jeffrey Zakarian had just won Iron Chef America. He was a judge on Chopped.

00:22:15:08 - 00:22:35:17
Kelley
And, you know, we opened this restaurant called Tudor House within three or four months, four out of four stars, Miami Herald, five out of five stars, Miami, New Times, we're high fiving each other and celebrating. And this is great. That restaurant only was open for about two years. We overshot the market. We are check average was at about $80 a person.

00:22:35:19 - 00:22:41:11
Kelley
Our check average in that area of Miami needed to be about $40 per person. So you know you learn.

00:22:41:11 - 00:22:41:22
Kelley
From those.

00:22:41:23 - 00:23:04:08
Kelley
Things. You know, we overshot the market. You know, we became a special occasion restaurant. And, you know, at the end of the day, to be successful in this industry, the long term growth is going to be through covers people, not through check average. And that's why a robin restaurants are so successful. The idea $20.20 to $21 per person check average.

00:23:04:10 - 00:23:29:14
Kelley
That means you can go in, you can have a drink, you can have a bowl of ramen and an appetizer. Walk out of there for $21. That's, you know, so it's a little 60 feet restaurant in Burlington, Vermont. But, you know, we do, you know, six out of 60 seats. We do 3 to 400 covers a day. Well, Robin is easy to make.

00:23:29:14 - 00:23:46:13
Kelley
You know, it's all about the broth, the noodles. You know, the noodles are a minute 34. ALL I'm a dude, right? So, you know, it's a full service restaurant with a full bar. But, you know, if we're not busy, we could cut it to top in 15 minutes, you know, based on the fact that, you know, we're not that busy and take it comes in the ramen.

00:23:46:14 - 00:24:08:06
Kelley
You know, the food's out of the kitchen within 8 to 10 minutes.

00:24:08:08 - 00:24:14:04
Kelley
Right?

00:24:14:06 - 00:24:17:04
Kelley
Yeah. And there's a line out the door. It people are waiting.

00:24:17:06 - 00:24:40:16
Kelley
Yeah, Yeah.

00:24:40:18 - 00:24:59:14
Kelley
Nope. Just like I said, Mexico, Mexico City, five, six months. They're opening a kind of grill at the Camino Real Hotel. And then I spent a lot of time in London, also with China Grill, because at the time, you know, I've been blessed. I worked with two of the Godfathers of boutique hotel world being Schrager and Bill Clinton.

00:24:59:16 - 00:25:19:20
Kelley
And these guys knew they got it like 20 years ago when, you know, it's like hotel people are really good at rooms, but they don't know anything about restaurants. So let's get restaurant people in to run our restaurants and let them integrate and figure out the the hotel aspect, you know? And that's why we became, you know, my my company, Hospitality Alliance.

00:25:19:20 - 00:25:41:15
Kelley
We became, you know, the food and beverage people, hotel food and beverage people, because we understand the relationship. Right. I, I describe it like this, Right. The right pocket is the hotel pocket. The left pocket is the food and beverage pocket. But the pants belong to the same owner. So it's incumbent upon us to work together to make sure that that owner gets a good return on their investment.

00:25:41:17 - 00:26:23:16
Kelley
So, you know, we're we're really good at working with hotel, operating companies. And, you know, before even before COVID, we found that there were a lot of select service hotel owners that wanted to get into the Full-Service Hotel program, but they didn't have a food and beverage team. So we became their de facto food and beverage team at three, got Top Chef, who is the owner of the Nautilus Diner in Madison, New Jersey.

00:26:23:16 - 00:26:47:17
Kelley
I worked for him for four years through high school. I you know, every Thursday night, Saturday, Sunday day, I worked in this diner and he just taught me, you know, what it was like, just, you know, work hard. And I learned at 14 years old, if I'm really fast, not only am I going to turn the table faster, make the servers more money, but they're going to tip me more excited me.

00:26:47:23 - 00:26:53:04
Kelley
So I learned at a very young age and I loved when the servers start fighting over me to be in their sections.

00:26:53:06 - 00:26:54:05
Kelley
So, you know, that's.

00:26:54:07 - 00:27:15:11
Kelley
That's something he taught me. Next would be Charles Tobias, the owner of Potter's Room. I worked for him for eight years. Charles is, you know, a marine fighter pilot. You know, his whole Marine mentality of let's grind everybody down and then build them up as men. So often I had to jump in front of his bullet to save my managers.

00:27:15:13 - 00:27:16:11
Kelley
But, you know.

00:27:16:13 - 00:27:34:13
Kelley
He really taught me about business. He taught me about, you know, that the financial end of running the business, not just, you know, it's really good food, a really good beverage. And, you know, I grew from an executive chef. He made me a general manager. And then from there he made me as corporate director of food and Beverage.

00:27:34:15 - 00:27:56:20
Kelley
So I opened eight restaurants with him all over the world, one in Munich, Germany, three in the British Virgin Islands, one in the US Virgin Islands, one in Annapolis, Maryland, Charleston, South Carolina. Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina. And Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And then I left him. And then the third mentor I would say would be Jeffrey Chodorow from Try to Grow Management.

00:27:56:22 - 00:28:21:17
Kelley
Jeffrey, just you know, his management style was just beyond reproach. He never, never got angry. You know, in the five years I worked with him, you know, certainly taught me a lot about being creative and really the biggest thing he taught me was sales hides all ills. If you are busy and you do great sales, it hides a lot of operational inefficiencies.

00:28:21:19 - 00:28:41:14
Kelley
It is twice as hard to operate a slow dying restaurant than it is a busy, thriving restaurant. And, you know, really teaching me that, you know, most restaurant managers are really good at controlling expenses and managing that stuff, but they don't know anything about driving sales and marketing the heck out of your operation. And that's what he taught me.

00:28:41:14 - 00:29:29:14
Kelley
He was just brilliant at it. Well, there's, you know, various marketing aspects. There's the there's the fourth wall marketing, and that is, you know, once the people get in the door, how do I sell them more? You know, through suggested selling. I hate that. I hate the term upsell because that just makes me picture the used car salesman that just trying to make.

00:29:29:14 - 00:29:31:13
Kelley
A sale and doesn't really care.

00:29:31:13 - 00:29:59:15
Kelley
If I enjoy my experience. You know, the difference is, you know, would you like with the table, like bottled water still or sparkling or tap? That's that's upsell. I hate to suggest the sale is can I get the table started with with iced or bottled water like your choice. I don't feel bad by saying it. Right. And so, you know, I think that, you know, that hard sell is bad for the fourth wall marketing is, you know, how much can you sell within the four walls?

00:29:59:21 - 00:30:32:01
Kelley
Can I get a vodka tonic? Sure. Would you like Gray goose sociopath? You know, that's a suggestion. Then there's, you know, the compound marketing and compound marketing is very simple. If you're really good at what you're doing and the guest has a great experience, they will probably come back and bring other people and they're compounding that. So now I use, you know, the my very first restaurant, a gentleman from Qualcomm comes in and, you know, I meet him, Qualcomm, you know, that really small, you know, technology company with 17,000 employees.

00:30:32:03 - 00:30:51:17
Kelley
And he comes in, you know, we wowed his experience. He came back with eight guys a couple of days later. We wowed their experience. Two days after that, one of the guys that came with him came in with our fiancee. They liked it so much that they ended up booking their rehearsal dinner with us for 60 people.

00:30:51:19 - 00:30:54:04
Kelley
So that's the compound marketing, right?

00:30:54:06 - 00:31:21:04
Kelley
Well, you know, and if you if you treat people and they, you know, feel good, like my agent, Maya Angelou, I love her quote. You know, I've learned that people forget what you said. People forget what you did, but people will never forget how you make them feel. I mean, that's what we do. We sell experiences, right? We shower with your food, beverage, music, lighting, decor, you know, But it's certainly an experience because nobody has to go out and spend 100 bucks for dinner for two, you know, But they want to go out and spend 100 bucks for dinner for two.

00:31:21:04 - 00:31:42:14
Kelley
But they want the whole experience of that. And, you know, the three pillars in our industry is product energy and hospitality. So the product is a burger. I don't care if it's a burger, if it the best burger you could put out, the energy is the room, right? It's the music, the lighting, the decor, the uniforms. That's the energy.

00:31:42:16 - 00:32:01:04
Kelley
And then the hospitality piece, I think is the single most important piece you know, hospitality by definition, is warm, personal, engaging service. And, you know, it really comes down to that piece. You know, I never would have heard I never would have said this when I was a chef. But I'm convinced that I can forgive an overcooked steak.

00:32:01:10 - 00:32:04:03
Kelley
I can't forgive rude or inattentive service.

00:32:04:04 - 00:32:05:17
Kelley
And so I can tell you.

00:32:05:23 - 00:32:41:07
Kelley
You know, I've gone to places that I've had one of the best culinary experiences, but I'll never go back because a service is horrible. And then I've gone to places where the food's good. Not amazing, but good. But the service is so great. I go back over and over again. Well, I think, you know, the the short answer is no.

00:32:41:07 - 00:33:03:03
Kelley
But the longer answer is become, you know, continue to become a student of your craft. You know, I read probably seven or eight trade publications that I get, you know, every single month, whether it's restaurant business or, you know, restaurant industry, beverage magazine. You know, I mean, there's so many out there. So become a steward in your craft.

00:33:03:03 - 00:33:24:21
Kelley
And the most important thing, I think, is market research. I mean, go out and eat, drink a lot of different places to see what other people are doing.

00:33:24:23 - 00:33:25:14
Kelley
Well.

00:33:25:16 - 00:33:48:08
Kelley
There's got to be a bit of continuity. And let me let me qualify that. You know, I've gone to places, you know, that, you know, I like do the the beverage program and the chef ever communicate because, you know, you don't want to go into a Japanese restaurant and find, you know, 30 tequilas, just like you don't want to go into a mexican restaurant and find 30 sockets.

00:33:48:10 - 00:34:07:01
Kelley
And I find that that happens all the time where you get some beverage manager that never goes into the walk in and sees what the chef is doing. You know, I make sure my beverage manager and my chef are joined at the hip. You know, I want I want the concept to be whether you know, the ribbon of continuity simply, you know, is the music match the concept?

00:34:07:01 - 00:34:26:10
Kelley
Does the uniform match the concept? Because the food and beverage menus match the concept? Does the decor match the concept? You know, so often I go to restaurants and there's such a disjointed, you know, why would they play this music and this concept? And and, you know, a lot of times it's just a manager that, you know, just wants to do what they do.

00:34:26:12 - 00:34:55:02
Kelley
And I will tell you, I probably one of the biggest learning experiences I had, I was a chef in this restaurant in Greenwich, Connecticut, called the Sterling Ocean House. And this was back in gosh, it was in the eighties, the mid eighties. And I just gotten to stars in The New York Times. And, you know, that's big. Back, back and so, you know, we saw an increase in business pretty quickly.

00:34:55:04 - 00:35:10:23
Kelley
And it was it was a seafood restaurant. But, you know, I wanted to change the menu to put like sweetbreads and oxtails and stuff like that. Yeah, it was a great guy. And I kept haranguing him, you know, I want I want to do this. And he's like, you know, no, you know, run it on special. Do whatever you want to touch with the menus and menu.

00:35:11:01 - 00:35:24:22
Kelley
And, you know, after about a month and a half of me haranguing him, like, every time I see him, I want to do this to the menu. Finally he looks at me, goes, You want it? You want to do the menu your way? He goes, Yeah. Do you think it should be your menu? I said, Yeah. He goes, Okay, go open your own effing restaurant.

00:35:25:00 - 00:35:45:19
Kelley
And I'll never forget that. I was like 23, 24 years old. And I just learned at that point it's like, Oh yeah, I get a paycheck from this guy. And so at the end of the day, I learned whoever put the most money in as the most say, and the higher you go in the organization, you know, and I always kid my team and it's like, you know, look, this is not a this isn't a democracy.

00:35:45:19 - 00:35:48:02
Kelley
It's a benevolent dictatorship.

00:35:48:04 - 00:35:49:19
Kelley
And hey.

00:35:49:21 - 00:37:13:21
Kelley
I want to hear all of your ideas and I want it like, you know, I don't believe that any of us are as good as all of us. So I want to hear everybody's ideas. But at the end of the day, that's my tech. I'm going to make the final decision. Labor stuff. I mean, you could talk to any operator out there and they're going to tell you the same thing.

00:37:13:23 - 00:37:35:09
Kelley
Well, you know, first of all, I think, you know, most restaurant team members are smart enough to know that if you don't treat them well, they they can go anywhere else and get a job. We are, by and large, paying between three and $5 more per hourly import employee and between five and $15,000 more for management and chefs than we were pre-COVID.

00:37:35:14 - 00:37:41:20
Kelley
It was always it was always a problem before COVID. After COVID, you know how many people that pivoted completely out of the industry.

00:37:41:22 - 00:37:43:17
Kelley
And here to.

00:37:43:19 - 00:38:05:04
Kelley
To your point of, you know, shame on that owner or manager that let it server go on the floor before know the menu. I mean, I'm you know, listen, I'm adamant. The more you expect from your team, the more you have to train them. My servers go through a minimum of seven days prior to ever being able to go in front of a guest, because I expect that they're going to be able to answer any question the guest is going to ask.

00:38:05:06 - 00:38:24:11
Kelley
So, you know, their first to their first days in the kitchen on zero, learning the menu, circling on the menu, every ingredient they couldn't describe to a table, you know, understanding portion sizes and weight gain, too. They're running food behind the food runners. So now they're getting more food knowledge and they're now learning the dining room table numbers and seat numbers.

00:38:24:17 - 00:38:36:03
Kelley
They three, they go and follow a busser for half their shift to learn where everything is in the dining room. Then they go to the stand for half a shift to learn the flow of the restaurant from the front door and not the kitchen.

00:38:36:05 - 00:38:37:03
Kelley
By the time they.

00:38:37:09 - 00:38:53:00
Kelley
Buy by day four, when they're paired up with the server, they know all about the menu. They know how to answer the phone. They know how to take a message. They know how to see the guests. They know where everything is in the restaurant. They know the table numbers, the seat numbers. Now they're learning secrets and service from the point of sale system.

00:38:53:06 - 00:39:13:17
Kelley
Then they do that for three days and then we test them out. And if they can't test that, they don't get to go on the floor. They have to they have to serve the GM.

00:39:13:19 - 00:39:15:06
Kelley
Well, you know why.

00:39:15:08 - 00:39:36:21
Kelley
That's so important is because they are your brand. They're your brand to every guest they interact with. And when I go to restaurants of mine and I see a new person that I haven't met, but I mean, like clockwork, I go up to and I introduce myself. I say, thank you for working here. How was your training? How could we improve on that training?

00:39:37:02 - 00:40:35:00
Kelley
I just want you to know that you can work here every day without me. My business doesn't survive one day without you. And I've got properties in nine different states. I'm not there every day, but they are. And so they are the brand. They're like, Why wouldn't you trade them so that they represent your brand on the highest possible level?

00:40:35:02 - 00:40:57:16
Kelley
You know, I'm very specific when it comes to our bars. Again, the bars have to mirror the food programing number one. Number two, I never have more than six specialty cocktails on my menu ever, because I find that you go to restaurants that have 12, 15, 25 specialty cocktails. They're not good. You know, I'm adamant that my bartenders use triggers.

00:40:57:16 - 00:41:20:06
Kelley
And actually, you know, I want exact pause and it's no different than having your chef make a dish over and over again until they perfected and everybody can do it right. I do the same thing at openings with my bartenders, you know, it's like, okay, you know, And the funny thing is, is I'm asked all the time when I create menus for concepts, and then the owner will be like, okay, what about the beverage menu?

00:41:20:06 - 00:41:38:02
Kelley
I go, I can't make it yet. Why not? I go because we haven't hired the bartenders and because I have my bartenders create our specialty cocktails and they have six six, 110 one vodka, one bourbon, one run and one one tequila and one scotch. So all of the big six are in it. All of them are in especially cocktails.

00:41:38:04 - 00:41:57:04
Kelley
And, you know, when we're training them, you know, it's they get to make cocktails and try me on that. And, you know, if it's good enough, then it can be it can be identified as a potential cocktail out of cocktail menu. Then the last key is, can you make it in 30 seconds or less because you can't make it in 30 seconds or less.

00:41:57:05 - 00:42:12:08
Kelley
It doesn't go on the menu because I don't need somebody cocktails to make. And it took me 2 minutes to make. All the while, everything else is backing up behind me. So it's got to be made in 30 seconds. So figure out how you're going to make, you know, juices are or sirups or base spirits to be able to make it 30 seconds.

00:42:12:10 - 00:42:27:00
Kelley
And then once they can do that, then it goes on the menu. Then I bring all the bartenders together. I'm like, Good, All of you make this one cocktail. I line them up. This one, who made this one? It doesn't look like these tasted. What's your great throwback? Make them all again, and I'll do that over and over again.

00:42:27:02 - 00:42:47:20
Kelley
20, 30 times per cocktail per bartender. So I go through a lot of product in an opening. But you know what? At the end of the day, whether you make it, I make it or he makes it, it's got to be the exact same. So that's why I stuck to cocktails. And the other thing we do is we make sure that they're all trained on the classic cocktails, too, and make it themselves.

00:42:47:22 - 00:43:05:22
Kelley
So I give you an example I was in a I went to a bar here in Las Vegas and I was sitting there with friends for about an hour and a half. And I had three vodka martinis on the rocks of three different bartenders. I got it three different ways. The first guy just poured vodka over. I put an olive in it, gave it to me.

00:43:06:00 - 00:43:29:10
Kelley
Saturday, the second guy made it in the Sheraton, added a little vermouth, which is a classic martini, added a little vermouth, shook it, strained it over the over the ice, put it out. Boom. That's the martini I want. And the third person just I just built the whole thing over and added the vermouth and added the vodka and added the olives all to a glass of ice.

00:43:29:11 - 00:43:50:02
Kelley
So you don't think that the flavor profiles of all three of those drinks were different? And so that's where it's like recreate even on that stuff, like, you know, so typically if somebody orders a martini vodka virgin, would you like vermouth or not? Right? Because vermouth is part of the martini. So a lot of people think a martini is vodka or gin over ice.

00:43:50:02 - 00:44:23:10
Kelley
And that's not a martini or or are. No, I mean, you know, I think the mocktail is certainly something that people are saying is a rising trend. I don't agree. And I'll tell you why. I don't you know, I don't typically carry, you know, nonalcoholic beer either, because I can buy a case and it'll be there for four months.

00:44:23:12 - 00:44:45:04
Kelley
And why am I going to pick up cooler space? Right. If somebody comes in and they don't drink and I say I don't have a non alcoholic beer, but we've got juices, soft drinks, you know, all kinds of other things, typically you're not going to get up and walk out because you don't having any beer and I'd say the same thing with, you know, you don't have to have six orange flavored vodka selections, right?

00:44:45:06 - 00:45:09:06
Kelley
I got Absolut, I got Sky Stoli. I don't know. We pick one orange flavored vodka, and if somebody wants, you know, orange vodka, you know, on the rocks, they're going to drink. Typically what you have on the back bar, you have to learn you can't be all things to all people, You know, when you go into a market, if everybody's got the same craft beer, it's probably important you put that craft beer on your menu, but you got to study the market.

00:45:09:06 - 00:45:32:23
Kelley
So when we go into a new market, we do a massive deep dive. We go to Google Earth and we chart every single restaurant within a five mile radius, including fast food. And then we pick what we believe to be our demographic. And at that point, we yeah, we do a deep dive into not only what these different restaurants, you know, are carrying.

00:45:32:23 - 00:45:50:21
Kelley
So we'll pick six or seven restaurants, we believe to be our competition. And then we tried everything. What are they? What are they charge for coffee, bottled water. You know, Tito's, you know, because it's such a big seller. So we can't all the pricing because, you know, we never want to come out of the market expensive, you know, out of the gate.

00:45:50:23 - 00:46:22:16
Kelley
We always want to make sure we're solidly in the middle of the pricing market. Right. We don't want to be the cheapest, but we don't want to be the most expensive.

00:46:25:12 - 00:46:38:20
Kelley
I do obviously spend time with my family is huge. You know, I have an eight year old that's now getting into sports and sports teams, so that's fun.

00:46:38:22 - 00:46:45:03
Kelley
But I would say problem one of my biggest passions is music. I go to live music like it's my job.

00:46:45:04 - 00:46:45:10
Kelley
You know.

00:46:45:13 - 00:47:02:12
Kelley
And living in Vegas, everybody comes through here. So one of the most important things is, you know, you know, getting getting your ideas out, going to live music. And I typically, you know, I go into Vegas standing only because I don't want to sit through a concert and then I play drums. So that's how I get my my stress work out.

00:47:02:14 - 00:47:03:06
Kelley
So I.

00:47:03:06 - 00:47:04:12
Kelley
Play drums.

00:47:04:14 - 00:47:11:18
Kelley
I have a drum room, you know, a music room in my in my house. I have over 7000 vinyl albums and I've been collecting since I was 14.

00:47:11:20 - 00:47:21:14
Kelley
And I have a drum set for my son, several thousand albums and over 5000 TVs.

00:47:21:16 - 00:47:36:02
Kelley
I've by alphabet alphabetized now.

00:47:36:04 - 00:47:37:04
Kelley
Yeah, No, I mean, I've been.

00:47:37:04 - 00:48:08:06
Kelley
Collecting since I was 14 and now in the digital age, it's funny because people like, why do you have this? Like, you know, I just I still enjoy it. I still play albums. I'm on a turntable that right?

00:48:08:08 - 00:48:38:04
Kelley
It really is. Yeah.

00:48:38:06 - 00:48:44:12
Kelley
Thanks so much for having me. Thank you.

00:48:47:06 - 00:48:48:08
Speaker 1
next Thursday.

00:48:48:08 - 00:48:49:22
Speaker 1
I'm speaking with Ben Berman,

00:48:49:23 - 00:48:57:22
Speaker 1
co-founder and CEO of Tomorrow Farms. Ben, born and raised in Portland, Maine, has always Ben as food entrepreneur.

00:48:58:00 - 00:49:02:07
Speaker 1
In middle school, he convinced his high school to pay him 20 $500 a year

00:49:02:07 - 00:49:25:00
Speaker 1
to recruit locals, chefs to cook meals once a month at his high school. At age 18, he started mainly burgers and ended up with three trucks and 16 employees, which landed his first celebrity appearance on the Food Network. Ben shifted to consulting at Deloitte, where he learned valuable insights into various business models before attending Wharton, where he received his MBA.

00:49:25:12 - 00:49:42:07
Speaker 1
This happened during COVID, and Ben turned to his roots and started Good pizza and gave away 20 pizzas a week for nine months and raised $100,000, which he donated to a culinary training program for low and no income individuals in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

00:49:42:20 - 00:49:54:21
Speaker 1
It was so popular he hit the media circuit once again. Instead of returning to consulting, Ben decided to look to the future of food with Tomorrow Farms their first project.

00:49:55:00 - 00:50:11:06
Speaker 1
Board cow is a dairy alternative to milk. It's the world's first fermentation and derived dairy milk. They are feeding DNA sequences of cows, milk to a yeast to microflora, and letting the microflora ferment like beer.

00:50:11:06 - 00:50:19:19
Speaker 1
The results of this process is identical to dairy, but animal free, lactose free and 97% fewer carbon emissions.

00:50:19:21 - 00:50:28:20
Speaker 1
It's not a new process as it has been used to make insulin for a very long time. Given the constraints on land and the growing number of people on the planet,

00:50:29:00 - 00:50:30:10
Speaker 1
Ben wants to use technology to

00:50:30:11 - 00:50:34:07
Speaker 1
to make dairy and beef in healthier and more efficient ways.

00:50:34:18 - 00:50:38:18
Speaker 1
There is more to come from Ben's team, and I look forward to what's next.

00:50:38:17 - 00:50:43:09
Speaker 1
Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes

00:50:43:10 - 00:50:47:02
Speaker 1
Tune in next Thursday and have a great week.

00:50:47:02 - 00:50:53:00
Speaker 1
This week's episode was produced by four Dora J Productions.


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