Simon Ford Founder of Ford's Gin The How and Why he Created it for Bartenders

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📢I talk🎙️with Simon Ford 🎇 CoFounder of Ford's Gin   😋🍸✨ 👏

Happy 12th Birthday today, February, 29th, 2024!! Ford's Gin and I both turn 12! :)

Simon shares the story of how the gin was created, from the initial idea on a napkin to the final recipe. The journey took two and a half years of product development, testing different botanicals and refining the flavors. 😋🎉

The gin is a London  Dry Gin 🍸that is designed to work well in mixed drinks and cocktails. The recipe includes nine botanicals, with juniper as the backbone and other ingredients like coriander, angelica, cassia, grapefruit, lemon,🍋 orange, 🍊jasmine flower, and oris. 😋 😀 😁🎇👏 🌿

The goal was to create a gin that could be a versatile and reliable choice for bartenders and consumers alike. In this part of the conversation, Simon discusses the process of creating the perfect gin recipe and the importance of taste and flavor.

He also shares his favorite cocktails to make with ginger gin and the impact of adding water to gin. Simon talks about the complexity of gin flavors and the rise of gin in the UK.🎇👏

Simon shares his journey from working in wine shops to discovering cocktail culture and transitioning to a marketing role in the spirits industry. He highlights the importance of mentors and inspirations in his career and the impact they have had on his professional growth.

Simon also discusses the pain points in the industry, such as the lack of support for hospitality workers, and the positive outlook for the future, including the evolution of hospitality and the increasing open-mindedness in the industry. He shares his passion for travel and experiencing different cultures, as well as his love for live music and living in Nashville, TN.

Brown Forman 🥃  Acquired Ford's Gin in June 2019 through their purchase of The 86 Company.

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Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 1:16 Where Are You Calling From?
• 7:13 Let's Jump Right Into the Brand!
• 8:37 Ford's Gin Creation Timeline
• 10:40 Various Gin Cocktails
• 19:10 How Long From "Napkin night" to Bottle for Sale?
• 21:26 "Easter Eggs" on the Label
• 24:20 How the Gin is Made
• 34:54 Perfecting the Gin Recipe
• 45:48 Tasting Ford's Gin
• 1:13:01 Where Were You Born?
• 1:13:53 First Job in Wine Shop
• 1:21:08 Job in Marketing
• 1:23:48 Mentors
• 1:28:54 Resources
• 1:35:05 Pain Points
• 1:47:39 Passions Outside of Work

Transcript

00:00:00:20 - 00:00:26:11
Jessie
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessie, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass. Hello, everybody. I wanted to wish fortune a very special, happy 12th birthday. It is so cool to be able to share our 12th birthdays together. Yes, that's right.

00:00:26:13 - 00:00:47:00
Jessie
I am a leap year, baby. I have been so excited to post this today. You all are going to love Simon and listening to his journey of creating Forge. And you really are. He's genuinely an amazing guy and created an amazing journey and has really impacted many in our industry. Thank you, Simon. Enjoy, everybody. Peace. Thank you for listening.

00:00:47:00 - 00:00:59:07
Jessie
And be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes. Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. I am JCA and I have Simon Ford of Ford's Gin today. Hi Simon.

00:00:59:09 - 00:01:01:06
Simon
Hi, Jesse. Thanks for having me on.

00:01:01:06 - 00:01:06:22
Jessie
Yeah, no, I'm super, super excited to have you on. I've just been jumping around all day.

00:01:07:00 - 00:01:10:21
Simon
Hey, I love it. We get to talk all things fun, cocktails and gin.

00:01:10:22 - 00:01:17:17
Jessie
Exactly. I and I love gin, too. I really do. I really love gin. So, where are you calling from today?

00:01:17:17 - 00:01:19:07
Simon
I'm in Nashville, Tennessee.

00:01:19:08 - 00:01:21:11
Jessie
Nashville, Tennessee. Awesome.

00:01:21:11 - 00:01:32:00
Simon
City is a great city. And no one ever expects me to be here. No, It's like whenever I say I'm in Nashville, Tennessee is a What are you doing in Nashville?

00:01:32:00 - 00:01:34:12
Jessie
Yeah, Like, do you live there?

00:01:34:14 - 00:01:38:07
Jessie
Is that someone's home that you're squatting in?

00:01:38:09 - 00:01:39:10
Jessie
Yeah.

00:01:39:12 - 00:02:08:13
Simon
We live here, you know, which, you know, obviously the gin and we'll talk about it later is made in London, you know, So I get to go home to, you know, to London a lot. The distribution and marketing of of forced gin is done in Louisville, Kentucky, at the Brown-Forman offices. So this is actually quite convenient location because I can there's a direct flight to London from Nashville and I can get down to Louisville, Kentucky.

00:02:08:15 - 00:02:19:20
Simon
And and to your point, it's a cool town. So I've been here not that long, but and I don't know if I'll stay here. I probably won't, but it's a great experience to get a few years living here.

00:02:19:20 - 00:02:46:06
Jessie
Yeah, for sure. I've never met anyone that really didn't like it there or I mean, obviously visited or or lived and everybody goes there, at least in the music world. I remember, gosh, it was it was four years ago because it was my last leap year birthday. I got to spend the day with Jimmy Russell at a on bass at a bourbon tasting, and he signed my bottle.

00:02:46:11 - 00:02:57:13
Jessie
So awesome. Yeah. And then I felt so bad to leave him because we were going in to Nashville to hang out and ended up seeing Joe Walsh play, play guitar.

00:02:57:15 - 00:02:58:06
Simon
No way.

00:02:58:09 - 00:02:59:17
Jessie
Yeah, it was just what a.

00:02:59:17 - 00:03:01:11
Jessie
What a birthday.

00:03:01:13 - 00:03:21:05
Simon
That and honestly, there is there is a lot of music going on all the time. One of my first experiences here was going to the Food and Wine Festival, and I've been to the Aspen Food and Wine Festival. I've been to the New York food and wine, Charleston food and wine. And so I was curious as to what Nashville's would be like.

00:03:21:07 - 00:03:46:01
Simon
And lo and behold, there's a stage where musicians and that and, and on that stage were some of the most sort of famous Nashville artists performing just ad hoc. They were dressed in seventies disco gear, and there was the Kings of Leon and Sheryl Crow and all of these different stars from Nashville deciding to play in the Food and Wine festival, where most people were there for the food, the wine and the cocktails.

00:03:46:01 - 00:03:52:12
Simon
So it's sort of music sort of plays a role in so many facets of life here. And I love that about it.

00:03:52:12 - 00:03:53:02
Jessie
Yeah, that's.

00:03:53:02 - 00:03:54:07
Simon
True.

00:03:54:09 - 00:04:02:22
Jessie
And it still has that small kind of probably as a as a resonance, that small town kind of feel to it maybe.

00:04:02:22 - 00:04:24:15
Simon
Yeah, I think that's the thing I struggle with a little bit. I prices a lot in L.A. Before that it was New York and before that it was London. I love big cities. The bigger the better. I thought I was going to end up either in Tokyo or Mexico City next, you know, and and Nashville. The one thing that you struggle a little bit with is is quite small.

00:04:24:19 - 00:04:49:13
Simon
But but it's you know, it's actually this will be one of the USA's next big cities without a doubt. Yeah. The rapid pace in which it's growing and the exciting things that are happening here, it's quite it's quite nice to watch, you know, new new developments, bars and some of it's super cool. Yeah, somebody took me down to an old arcade.

00:04:49:13 - 00:05:00:05
Simon
I guess it's, it was, it was built in the 1900s and they're transforming it into bars, restaurants and it's all the cool places. And I'm like, This is amazing. And it's happening every other week here. It feels like.

00:05:00:06 - 00:05:21:05
Jessie
Yeah, that is awesome. I've I've had the, you know, I've lived in Dallas now for I don't know how long, 15, 20 years or something. I've kind of seen that, that with Dallas too, you know, it's an underrated city. It's got great restaurants that are from literally every corner of the world and high quality and, you know, with the arts and that kind of thing.

00:05:21:05 - 00:05:27:20
Jessie
You see, we've really seen it grow and explode. So it is really fun to kind of watch that happen in your in your.

00:05:27:20 - 00:05:34:10
Simon
City when it happens. So I like I like it. And I'll be in Dallas with our master distiller soon, actually. So.

00:05:34:15 - 00:05:34:23
Jessie
when?

00:05:35:00 - 00:05:46:21
Simon
April. Well, well, well we'll send the invitations When, when, when everything is done. But it's. Yeah, mid-April. It's the flights are being booked as late as we talked.

00:05:47:01 - 00:05:47:18
Jessie
Yeah.

00:05:47:20 - 00:05:53:08
Jessie
I'll be there. I'm in Orlando right now but we'll be, we're headed that way so we'll be there.

00:05:53:09 - 00:05:53:22
Simon
Nice.

00:05:54:00 - 00:05:55:23
Jessie
Yeah, that'll be awesome.

00:05:56:01 - 00:05:58:05
Simon
So Orlando's home or Dallas?

00:05:58:05 - 00:06:21:16
Jessie
Well, Dallas is home. That's where my wife and I have built our lives. And our friends and our network. But we bought a house, and during COVID, here in Orlando, she's always wanted to live outside of Dallas. And then her parents, you know, are aging. They're getting pretty close to 80. So and her brother lives here, so she's like, let's we got the Unicorn House is really what happened.

00:06:21:16 - 00:06:32:18
Jessie
We just were looking and kind of it was a dream, right? Your thought and then the Unicorn House cabin. And within like two weeks we had a house. So it was pretty cool.

00:06:32:20 - 00:06:36:14
Simon
And you have Harry Potter well down the road. So what more do you want?

00:06:36:16 - 00:06:57:02
Jessie
yeah. I just spent four days at Disney. Last week I had my Japanese cousins in town and they love Disney and I never knew this, but they pinch trade. Have you ever heard of this? They get pins like lapel pins and they trade them all over the world. So like, if you have a trade, you can only do two, but each station you can trade pins.

00:06:57:02 - 00:06:58:10
Jessie
It's pretty cool. Yeah.

00:06:58:12 - 00:06:59:12
Simon
Nice.

00:06:59:14 - 00:07:02:21
Jessie
Yeah, it is cool. It you learn something new every day, right?

00:07:02:23 - 00:07:08:15
Simon
Yes. So bartenders trade pins. Sorry.

00:07:08:17 - 00:07:17:05
Jessie
No, that's that's probably true. Or consumers steal them like me. An accident. So should we get right into the branding? Yeah, let's do it.

00:07:17:07 - 00:07:18:20
Simon
Well, what can I tell you?

00:07:18:20 - 00:07:20:06
Jessie
Start from the very beginning.

00:07:20:09 - 00:07:45:13
Simon
Navigating for it started on the back of. Right. Yeah, this is true. I'd worked for another gin company. It's no secret many people know it. A few, in fact, a few of the best. And I definitely had a I would call it a narrow mind because I felt that there were there wasn't a reason to ever create a new gin.

00:07:45:15 - 00:08:16:06
Simon
I felt that there was enough great gins out in the world. This is before the gin boom. Yes. This is a very naive person saying there's a very naive version of me. But it was a bartender friend of mine. His name is Sasha Petroski. He is a very he's no longer with us in this world, but he when he was was one of the forces of nature that really helped the cocktail renaissance.

00:08:16:08 - 00:08:35:12
Simon
Also, he's inspired so many people and the people he inspired love him so much and so many of the great bars around the world came from his influence. And one of the other things that came from his influence is Fords Gin, because he was the one that said you should do a gin.

00:08:35:14 - 00:08:38:10
Jessie
Can you give a timeframe of when that was?

00:08:38:11 - 00:08:46:14
Simon
Yes, I would say about 2008, 2009. Prior to that. And I think we started talking about it first.

00:08:46:16 - 00:08:51:21
Jessie
But for him it was the cocktail revolution was like the 2000s. His influence.

00:08:51:21 - 00:09:15:19
Simon
Yeah, honey, in 2000 he opened all these great bars after that little branch wide store, you know, Devenish out in Los Angeles. I think he was a part of the heavily out in Melbourne, you know, in Milk and Honey opened in London. I think that was 22 or 24 around then anyway. Yeah, I mean, obviously a large footprint of influence all over the world.

00:09:15:19 - 00:09:33:04
Simon
Yeah. He created that. You know, he, his home was, was New York City. That's where I was living at the time and we would, we would have monthly dinners and we would spend a lot of time with each other. And he's said to me that I should really do a gin. And I actually said, I don't think so.

00:09:33:04 - 00:09:49:20
Simon
There's there's plenty of good gins out there in the world already. I don't think we need a need another one. And he convinced me that we did. And what it you know, the way he did that was by saying to me, Simon, what's your favorite gin? A gin and tonic. And I told him and he said, What's your favorite gin in a martini?

00:09:49:20 - 00:10:13:17
Simon
And I told him, he said was the favorite gin and Negroni. And I told him and the gin fizz. And he went on to ask me about eight different cocktails, and I named eight different gin. And and we sort of had this the saying that if you like gin, you could probably tell this your favorite gin. But if you love gin, your answer would probably probably be something along the lines of my favorite engine tonic.

00:10:13:17 - 00:10:18:06
Simon
Is this my favorite in a martini? Is that. And so you think you.

00:10:18:08 - 00:10:40:13
Jessie
Do you think it's because, the way that the the ingredients within a gin is so different that it's in varying that it really requires or it merges, you know, metals or whatever, you know, tastes a lot better, you know, with certain citrus or, you know, other, you know, tonic or whatever.

00:10:40:18 - 00:11:00:22
Simon
Is absolutely that, you know, without a shadow of a doubt, we you know, when when we took it to the next level, this very same conversation, we we were like, why is that gin your favorite in a gin fizz? And it's the juniper in the cream and they just love each other. And it's like, why is that ginger favorite in a martini?

00:11:01:03 - 00:11:22:07
Simon
And it was the balance and the vibrancy of citrus. But the, you know, the overall balance of of a flavor within it, you know, that wasn't you know, it was the more balanced gins, the ones that maybe had slight sweetness to it that made really good martinis. You know, of course, there was there were certain drinks where citrus made a lot of sense.

00:11:22:07 - 00:11:43:15
Simon
And so it was absolutely because of the various different things that those gins did well, as to why they worked well in those cocktails. And most of those reasons derive from the flavors and the ingredients that they were using. And so that's what sort of inspired 40. He was like, okay, great. But if I have one gin in my well, I can only afford to buy one bottle of gin.

00:11:43:17 - 00:12:07:01
Simon
Which one would I buy? You know? And that was where we sort of got into huge debate. And so the idea of forwards was, let's try and make a jack of all trades gin. You know, it perhaps might not be a master of one thing, but something that works well on all of these drinks And whether napkin comes in is we we wandered down to one of our favorite bars in New York City, late night bars.

00:12:07:03 - 00:12:34:04
Simon
We took a big pile of books with us, things like the Flavor Matrix and the you guys to pairing flavors. We took cocktail books. We took books on botanicals, we took gin books, and we started looking at the most popular gin cocktails that essentially the cocktails that made him famous looked at the flavors in them, the ingredients in them, and started looking at the flavor pairing guide for things that paired with those flavors that could be used to make gin.

00:12:34:06 - 00:12:57:17
Simon
So essentially the botanicals that could be used and started creating flavor maps like a chef might buy a recipe. And we started conceptualizing gins that we thought would work well with, you know, the mousse and things like bitters or with lemon citrus and lime citrus, you know, with other ingredients found in in a commonly in the classic gin cocktails.

00:12:57:19 - 00:13:22:10
Simon
And and so we had all these concepts that we wrote on the back of napkins. But honestly, at this at this at this point, that's all they were was conceptualized flavors. This wasn't written up with the knowledge of how to distill with those particular products. This wasn't written with the the knowledge of how much we would need of each of those flavors within the engines for that gin to to work.

00:13:22:12 - 00:13:43:15
Simon
It was really just what flavors worked with the flavors found in classic gin cocktails that we could make a gin with in botanicals. And it's a really nice it's a really nice thought process. You know, it starts by going, we want to make something that tastes good and drinks. Let's really think about that before we even try to make this thing, you know?

00:13:43:15 - 00:14:13:08
Simon
But of course, we didn't have a gin distillery, we weren't gin distillers. And that was when we decided to take our concepts to as many people that were gin distillers as possible. And so we pulled out the Rolodex and, and, and we started phoning up friends who had distilleries or brand ambassadors that were connected to GIN brands to see if if any of them would be interested in making some of our concepts for us.

00:14:13:10 - 00:14:33:20
Simon
And I think of about 30 to 40 that we found about five said yes. And then we sent the same recipes that all five and we tried the results when they got back to us, that was one clear favorite. We did it again. We did the second round to make sure it wasn't a fluke and that same place was a favorite.

00:14:33:22 - 00:15:06:10
Simon
And we called that person up and obviously we engaged these distilleries already. They were interested in working with us some capacity that we called this particular distillery up and said, All right, we would love to make a gin with you. This is what we are thinking. And they said yes, which was great. And it turned out there was a really good reason why this distillery had made great gins for us because the distiller at the time had probably been making gin for more than a decade.

00:15:06:15 - 00:15:35:17
Simon
But he came from a family who'd been making gin since 1618. wow. And he was the 11th generation gin distiller. So there was there was knowledge that he had. And so when we sent him out concepts before he even put those flavors in the style, he was able to call us up and say things like, this one probably won't work if you place it into a still, the flavors won't be there the way you want them to.

00:15:35:19 - 00:15:44:07
Simon
But how may I suggest these botanicals instead? That might bring you something similar to what you're looking for. And so we were able to work with his expertise.

00:15:44:08 - 00:15:44:23
Jessie
That's cool.

00:15:45:01 - 00:16:06:20
Simon
Which was yeah, I really liked it. I feel like the whole process of developing for it, which is one of the best experiences of my life, certainly my professional life, that that whole experience was his this 11th generation gin distiller. And we're learning from him as we do this. And it's amazing. And here I am talking to at the beginning, Sasha.

00:16:06:20 - 00:16:39:10
Simon
But by the end, dozens of bartenders were helping and putting input. But here I am talking to some of the best bartenders in the world, actually, Charles Maxwell brought in a company called Joseph Flack and Sons, who had been importing Gin Botanicals for over 125 years, and they were offering their expertise on their on where to source from the most sustainable places that the, you know, the better ingredients, where that the ingredients are indigenous and where the best versions of it come from and where the most consistent motions.

00:16:39:10 - 00:16:39:18
Simon
And so.

00:16:40:00 - 00:16:41:18
Jessie
It's saying.

00:16:41:20 - 00:17:04:16
Simon
Right, you know, if you don't love these moments in life, I don't know what you'll love. It's just like learning from people that are passionate, you know, learning from the the gin distiller who's so passionate, learning from bartenders, passionate about hospitality and cocktails, learning from a nerd about botanicals. You know, the best Juniper comes from these hills. It was so much fun.

00:17:04:21 - 00:17:20:04
Simon
Fun for me and you know, we sat on this journey to make gin. And every time we made a gin, we would test that gin and our favorite gin cocktails, which was a list of about seven at the beginning. It ended up being a list of about 15. Then we even ended up with a list of 19 we were just testing.

00:17:20:06 - 00:17:20:13
Jessie
And.

00:17:20:14 - 00:17:24:03
Jessie
That's awesome. Well, that's what you got to do, right? To get the right mix.

00:17:24:06 - 00:17:30:12
Simon
I don't think many people take that approach. I mean, maybe more people these days, but, you know, most are built on traditions. Yeah, you know.

00:17:30:14 - 00:17:31:00
Jessie
100.

00:17:31:00 - 00:17:48:16
Simon
Percent making this do. Yeah, we followed the traditions because there's respect. If you're creating something, you want to respect them, but you also want to modernize it. And exactly the modern modernize. And I think that's what we were trying to do. We ended up with a London dry gin. You know, that's the traditional pot. But we didn't set out to make a London dry gin.

00:17:48:16 - 00:18:10:13
Simon
We set out to make a gin that worked well in mixed drinks and cocktails. And it just ended up being London dry. And that makes sense to me, too, because if you think about if you think about it, London Dry Gin is in all those classic drinks that we set out to taste good, right? So, you know, so it sort of was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:18:10:13 - 00:18:29:19
Simon
And in that sense. So the whole yeah, the whole journey was quite magical. It took us about two and a half years to develop that recipe. We were really, really into the process. We were really into getting people's feedback. We were really interested in how bartenders would use it, what they thought of it before we were in any way confident.

00:18:29:19 - 00:18:50:06
Simon
I actually think we were a little bit too perfectionist, but I was really nervous because at some point in the process everyone had voted that my name should go on the bottle and that that turned me into a nervous wreck. I'm not going to lie. I'm like this This has to be perfect. And of course they kind of regretted it at one point, too.

00:18:50:06 - 00:18:55:00
Simon
They're like, Is it ready? Is the gin ready? I'm like, No, I need to do one more.

00:18:55:02 - 00:19:00:04
Jessie
It's got my name on it. that's so funny.

00:19:00:04 - 00:19:05:15
Simon
I'm scared of failure. I don't know. I mean, that. That's human nature, I guess.

00:19:05:15 - 00:19:07:05
Jessie
Yes, 100%.

00:19:07:07 - 00:19:08:07
Simon
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:08:09 - 00:19:08:22
Jessie
Well, to me.

00:19:08:23 - 00:19:10:04
Simon
It was the funniest.

00:19:10:06 - 00:19:15:21
Jessie
So that was from Napkin Night. Two and a half years till you had a bottle to sell.

00:19:15:22 - 00:19:33:04
Simon
I would say it took even longer than two and a half years from Napkin Night. Yeah, I think it was about two and a half years of real, really, product development. It's interesting. It's September. Sorry, September, February 29th, 2012.

00:19:33:06 - 00:19:37:09
Jessie
That's my. What, what, what? Sorry, what? One?

00:19:37:11 - 00:20:01:03
Simon
Okay, so in October of 2011, we finally finalized the recipes, of course, on the 29th of February 2012, we, we, we distilled the very first batch that was going to be bottled. So I considered the 29th of February, the birthday of fourth Gen Rice.

00:20:01:05 - 00:20:03:11
Jessie
I believe. Yes, I.

00:20:03:13 - 00:20:04:13
Jessie
I.

00:20:04:15 - 00:20:08:13
Jessie
I was meant to be part of this brand though.

00:20:08:15 - 00:20:11:02
Jessie
In your story. That's so cool. Yeah.

00:20:11:03 - 00:20:20:01
Simon
It's it's funny. So. Yeah. So technically forged in turns three if you count leap is this 29th the February.

00:20:20:06 - 00:20:23:19
Jessie
Ninth birthday the first in that circle.

00:20:24:00 - 00:20:25:17
Jessie
Yeah.

00:20:25:19 - 00:20:25:23
Jessie
that.

00:20:25:23 - 00:20:42:16
Simon
Is, is But I like that. And it was by accident, you know, it was just like 29th December and we put the date of the date, the 29th of February is in one of the stamps on the label. The inserts in the is a little homage to the first ever batch we made it would it is me just on this bottle.

00:20:42:16 - 00:20:59:14
Simon
Yeah it's in a stamp that is the square one on the top right. The rectangular one. Sorry. On the top. Right. And if you look closely, my eyesight's going, but if you look closely, the date, the 29th of February is in that stamp.

00:20:59:16 - 00:21:01:05
Jessie
That's cool.

00:21:01:07 - 00:21:11:20
Simon
no, it's not. I'm lying. It's in. There's a there's a stamp on the far right of the top label and there's a bottle in that stamp. There it is. I think the date. There it is. And that.

00:21:11:22 - 00:21:12:15
Jessie
Yeah.

00:21:12:16 - 00:21:24:09
Simon
I haven't seen the reading glasses. So yeah, the dates of the first batch, every, every stamp label or every part of that label that tells a little part. The story is full of Easter eggs as they as they say.

00:21:24:15 - 00:21:30:00
Jessie
That's awesome. I love that. Is there other Easter eggs that we need to talk about?

00:21:30:02 - 00:22:01:01
Simon
You know, there's you know, I mean, I that that that's there's a little in the stamp the original rectangle stamp there's S.F. which are my initials and a seam which is Charles Maxwell who's the master distiller. Okay so there's Easter egg there. Yeah, there's this. There's a few. If you look at the shopping cart, it is on the left of the bottom label.

00:22:01:03 - 00:22:03:05
Jessie
Going on to make a cocktail.

00:22:03:07 - 00:22:23:19
Simon
You've got to make it comes out. Yeah, that was it, says Kay Life in Kentucky because that's where the Brown-Forman offices are. And New York, which is where I founded the 86 company with my partners at the time. So that's a little Easter egg for that there. Yeah, there are a few. And then most of them, most of the things in those stamps are actually telling you a story.

00:22:23:19 - 00:22:45:23
Simon
Like one of them was sort of speak to the fact that when we make our gin, we keep the botanicals for 15 hours. It will say that we take about 5 to 6 hours of just to distill agent. And so there are little bits of information. Maybe they are Easter eggs, but those things are more like if you look, you will find every part of our transparent story of how we make the gin and where it comes from.

00:22:46:01 - 00:23:23:18
Simon
And my favorite Easter eggs, I guess it's not really, again, necessarily Easter eggs found in gin joints, things like that. Yeah, that's I really I really like those little touches. They, they provide character to the, to the label and so there are things like that. Yeah. So, so yes it was it's a when we made that batch to answer your question, the 29th of February on your birthday, when we make when we made that batch, we it would, it would take us another six months to figure out how to actually import, export, sell, sell it, get licenses and all of the things that you have to learn on the job.

00:23:23:18 - 00:23:50:22
Simon
So it wasn't a case of, yeah, we've got the gin, which is what we thought it was. We thought we made the gin this go and sell it and get some money in so that the company can function. And it would take us six months to figure that out. I'm sure it takes people less than that, but for us, we, we, we learned on the job and, you know, I share as much knowledge of the mistakes we made with entrepreneurs still to this day so that I hopefully saved them six months of pain that we went through.

00:23:50:22 - 00:23:55:07
Simon
And we were we've got a gin, we can't sell it.

00:23:55:09 - 00:24:17:13
Jessie
Can you can we talk a little bit more about the flavors? Because I'm super obsessed with that in the art of, you know, making cocktails is I'm just over the moon and learning and I just have so much respect for bartenders that are so creative and can just do their magic. I can just sit in an evening at the bar and.

00:24:17:17 - 00:24:20:08
Jessie
Watch them mix cocktails because it's just.

00:24:20:10 - 00:24:21:00
Jessie
Amazing.

00:24:21:01 - 00:24:59:22
Simon
I'm right alongside that with you. I love it. And I think, you know, myself, I'd been a bartender. Obviously it was working with bartenders. I think we brought some of that bartender energy to the creation of Fords Gin and that sort of sort of excitement that we get in the in the bar world when making something. You know, for me, every time I see a bottle of Ford's gin on a bar in a cocktail and or someone sipping it, order it, I get that same sense of satisfaction that I used to get when I would make a cocktail and the customer would go, What does tasting?

00:25:00:00 - 00:25:19:20
Simon
You know? Because for us to be on a bar meant someone somewhere made a decision to put our gin on the bar, which meant they must have thought about it, probably tasted it and said, yeah, that that's worthy of my bar. And that's a really giant compliment. So whenever I see forwards on the bar, it's it means a lot to me.

00:25:19:20 - 00:25:44:04
Simon
It really does. I never take it for granted, you know, from, you know, from the perspective of flavors that we ended up obviously we tested lots of different botanicals in that two and a half year process. Yeah, but we ended up with a very simple recipe by comparison to all of the experimentation, it started getting simpler and simpler, but it's amazing the complexity you can get out of one of the ingredients in an in a gin.

00:25:44:06 - 00:26:15:13
Simon
And of course, gin is named after the core ingredient, which is juniper. And you have to respect that as the most important flavor in your gin. And we certainly do that with Fords. You know, the most prominent ingredient in our recipe is Juniper as half of the recipe. Okay? We spend a lot of attention making sure it's a very nice, delicate, crisp, you know, like subtle pine rather than heavy pine flavors.

00:26:15:15 - 00:26:32:05
Simon
But we spend a lot of time making sure we get a really good juniper. And that juniper we sort of accentuate with the other botanicals that come in. So it really is the star of of of the Fords gin recipe is it comes from Italy the Juniper Fords. But wow that's super cool.

00:26:32:05 - 00:26:34:07
Jessie
Where do you know where.

00:26:34:09 - 00:26:40:02
Simon
Now I got something. I've been Tuscany. I don't have the name of the farmer, honestly.

00:26:40:03 - 00:26:41:13
Jessie
It's like, Yeah.

00:26:41:15 - 00:27:06:04
Simon
One day I want to go and visit everybody that provides the ingredients for Fords, because for for, I would say, 80 to 90% of our ingredients, we bought them from the same farmers since the beginning, which I didn't know was going to be the case. You know. But so for me now, after this amount of time is time to go say hi and thank you at some point for all that they do, that's significant.

00:27:06:04 - 00:27:07:13
Jessie
Yeah.

00:27:07:15 - 00:27:35:04
Simon
Yeah. We had to change grapefruit a few times and an ice root, but. But now we settle on the right, the right farmers for them as well. So I feel like we have our partners, which is really nice. So the nine botanicals were split up in four areas. One is Juniper, the backbone, the heart of gin, and then after Juniper we have our spices, florals and citrus.

00:27:35:06 - 00:27:58:21
Simon
And so that's why we sort of say it's like a a recipe for parts. But it's nine ingredients. The spices a coriander provides a bit of citrus, actually, and and a lot of structure. Coriander is really what shines through in a gin and tonic for me, that's kind of like that is where it sort of plays its role.

00:27:58:23 - 00:28:31:01
Simon
We have the spice of Angelica, which is related to celery with enough, but it's a dry root and it's got a very sweet perception of sweet. And so that brings flavors to the front of the palate and provides balance there. And we use Cassia, which is the Cassie Air is a lot like cinnamon. Oak doesn't have as much heat is cinnamon, but it's got a most people that would smell Cassie or taste it would say that Cinnamon, that's how close it is.

00:28:31:03 - 00:28:55:07
Simon
And that provides a little too sweet too. We have an abundance of juniper in there. We have grapefruit, which is the dominant citrus, and that goes very grapefruit goes very well with lime, It goes very well with men. So it starts to tie those. It goes very well with Cassia actually grapefruit and cinnamon. It was done beachcombers, you know, mix and so and then that would have very well with men.

00:28:55:07 - 00:29:04:04
Simon
And so there's the sort of flavor combinations within the gin that support each other and then pair with something completely different.

00:29:04:04 - 00:29:10:03
Jessie
I'm really blown away by the citrus being grapefruit.

00:29:10:05 - 00:29:35:12
Simon
Yeah. We also have lemon and orange and the Seville, bitter orange. So that's in there. But you know, we have equal measures, just like a negroni of the citrus is going in. But it's the grapefruit that kind of comes through the strongest. But it's almost like the pettiness and there's that sort of bitterness which really plays well with things like Campari and bitterness, you know, that the grapefruit.

00:29:35:12 - 00:29:58:09
Simon
So it sort of is a nice ingredient. It's one of the things that I love about forwards actually, is that grapefruit coming through it sort of with when we taste it, you'll I think you'll get it, you'll see what I'm talking about with that grapefruit pettiness at the end and something that we have in this gin that really complements the grapefruit is jasmine flower.

00:29:58:11 - 00:30:24:09
Simon
And interestingly enough, Jasmine in our recipes done by weight. And so it's a small proportion of jasmine flower use, but jasmine flower is very light. And so when you see it physically, it's actually the second most volume ingredient in Fords gin. You know, you just see all of these jasmine flowers going in. And finally we have this ingredient, Iris, which is a kind of a violet flavor.

00:30:24:10 - 00:30:44:11
Simon
And it and it and the and the violet is sort of a little almost like a musty nest, but it's the iris is from the bulb of the flower of the iris. Okay, So those are the nine ingredients that come together to give forces flavor. And each of them serves a purpose. You know, even that vine and blackcurrant flavor of, of the of the races in the gin.

00:30:44:11 - 00:30:50:19
Simon
So that goes well with something like a bramble. So there's there's things in there that just complement and tie themselves.

00:30:50:19 - 00:31:03:21
Jessie
That is so cool. So you so you've you've combined variant or various ingredients that can work well with all types of different drinks. And you, we've.

00:31:03:21 - 00:31:04:07
Simon
Tried to.

00:31:04:07 - 00:31:07:22
Jessie
Balance it out enough to.

00:31:08:00 - 00:31:31:13
Simon
That there will be some anomalies out there. It was interesting I remember very special days to me. I took the gin, the final version of the gin to Audrey Saunders, who is to me one of like one of the most important bartenders to have ever walked the world. And she'd opened the Pay You club and the Gin Jen meal.

00:31:31:13 - 00:32:09:03
Simon
I mean, you know, like the old Cuban she's got, she created drinks that just stood the test of time. They've changed the world and they're almost as classic as, you know, even though they're modern classics, they've all they're as classic as the classics now. You know, they're such such significant drinks. And but the bar, when she opened, it was the first bar it ever been to that really a champion gin over other other spirit based ingredients and and she was meticulous with with the cocktail making and and and a very good and close friend and so was definitely nervous to take the final version of fourths and she put me to the test that night

00:32:09:04 - 00:32:44:00
Simon
she made my favorite cocktails in a blind taste test against my favorite gins and and and that was a very and didn't make it easy either. She's in some of the scenarios she would blend gins just to throw me knowing that that so and and at the end of it I picked my favorite of those cocktails and all but one of the cocktails I preferred with forged gin and that was the moment I felt confident that I could go to the market.

00:32:44:02 - 00:32:50:11
Simon
You know, it was that that was the night I went. All right, I can walk with my head up. Yeah. Wow.

00:32:50:13 - 00:32:59:08
Jessie
That must have been such an amazing feeling to to be tested. And right then and there, like, if this is if this is not right, she's going to tell.

00:32:59:08 - 00:33:00:22
Jessie
Me.

00:33:00:23 - 00:33:08:13
Simon
I the moment I could always count on Audrey for that, for honesty. And you know, that's what good friends do.

00:33:08:13 - 00:33:09:06
Jessie
Yeah. 100.

00:33:09:06 - 00:33:32:23
Simon
Percent. And the wondering I preferred another gin and, you know, I wasn't trying to win. I was actually being honest to myself when I was doing these tastings, I was like, that was it was. It was quite a sweet cocktail and and a gin, slightly more bitter than forces tasted better in it. And I'm like, great. You know, like, that's that's cool.

00:33:32:23 - 00:33:52:19
Simon
We know that that, that we can't be perfect in everything, but we just wanted to we, you know, what we really wanted was, you know, some people can't afford to bring home 20 bottles of gin or there's lots of things out there that do various different things quite well, but maybe not one, that there are some crazy flavored gins out there that don't really act like gins and drinks.

00:33:52:19 - 00:34:11:12
Simon
And we just wanted something that if you took bottle of your time and open that cocktail book, it is likely that this is going to give you a great version of that drink, you know, and that is the consumer takeaway for our gin. And we were hoping that the bartender would feel the same. Right? The bartender would take go, this makes a killer martini.

00:34:11:12 - 00:34:32:03
Simon
This makes a great negroni. But, you know, obviously, we hope that it inspires them to make their own drinks, too, you know, but, you know, a bit of both. So that's where that sort of classic ness of the foods comes in. And the modern ness is that we've looked at the modern day bartender, the modern day palate, and sort of made the classic style of gin around that is exciting.

00:34:32:03 - 00:34:38:09
Simon
You know, it just doesn't reinvent the wheel so much as I think adds another new color to the landscape.

00:34:38:13 - 00:35:00:00
Jessie
Yeah, No, absolutely. And so as you're, you know, testing these different ingredients, you know, over and over and you mentioned you were trying to perfect it. Can you talk about where the gin was and where it got to to make it just the right exact recipe?

00:35:00:02 - 00:35:22:18
Simon
Yeah. At the very beginning, things were radically, radically different, you know, in gins that we were making, you know, of course, we made gins that when we tasted them, we just went there. And of course we made gins. We went, that's good. And then we mixed them and it didn't quite work so well. And we did a lot of the tweaking ourselves of the, of the of the of the recipe.

00:35:22:18 - 00:35:37:22
Simon
But, you know, when we liked something, then we took it to our friends for their opinion and then they might notice something that we hadn't noticed and they gave us their opinions. Right. And then we just suddenly had crazy ideas. What if, what if?

00:35:38:00 - 00:35:39:00
Jessie
And I love.

00:35:39:00 - 00:35:58:05
Simon
It And and you have to, right? You know, it's all part of the process. And in fact, our ideas at the beginning were a lot crazier and we got a little bit more more conservative as it went on. You know, like the conservative ideas were the ones that were making it taste good. But jasmine flower, I think we were the first one to use it.

00:35:58:05 - 00:36:25:16
Simon
So which is nice, you know, more out of it. That was a unique botanical for us at the time, which is really good. But we tried we back in the beginning, we were trying things like Bay Leaves, we tried, which was a disaster, but for a minute we were so excited by the concept of a bay. Yes, I believe in those flavors, but once it went in the still no, that was completely different when there were things that we really did like the flavor of it.

00:36:25:17 - 00:36:53:18
Simon
We used Burgman for a minute, but having the expertise, you know, it's called a fact that was inspired by Audrey because of the Earl Great martini and having Burgman in the, in the gin we thought would be a good pair for that. But you know, that that fell away because you know the the botanical supplier and and and the distiller both said it's very hard to get consistent quality.

00:36:53:20 - 00:37:14:11
Simon
Burgman Every single year is a challenge for us and consistency we might say steer clear of that. So there were moments we were trying things quite radical and it was throwing flavors. And at the very beginning, you know, like I put some ginger in one batch, for example, and it may taste, but it made its taste so hot.

00:37:14:13 - 00:37:39:21
Simon
Yeah, you know, And so I was like, Damn, because I love Ginger so much attitude. That's what name is. It just couldn't we couldn't get it to work in the gin. I've actually known a gin to use it since, which is I think I do. But I was talking to a distiller who said you could distill the the ginger and he would pull the fruit fruit rather than the heat from it.

00:37:40:03 - 00:37:59:15
Simon
And so maybe one day we'll make a new gin with some ginger and I finally get to live that dream. But yeah, there were things that drew in the stills that had purpose that just didn't work from a distillation point of view. But by the time we got to the latter part of this process, it was always about a little bit more citrus, a little bit less juniper, a little bit more juniper, a little bit more just.

00:37:59:17 - 00:38:05:06
Jessie
If you knew the ingredients. It was just getting that mix of how much balance.

00:38:05:08 - 00:38:36:14
Simon
And that was where most of the work was done. You know, I do remember at the very end I had this moment where and this is an amazing moment to you talk about privileged moments of the bartender industry, the things, the doors that they opens. You know, you talk about geeking out. I Dale DEGROFF was in London when we had these batches just made at the distillery and and it was a London bar show or a London cocktail week and, and Dale came to the distillery with me.

00:38:36:16 - 00:38:39:12
Jessie
Wow, that is so cool.

00:38:39:14 - 00:38:59:01
Simon
I know we tried. We went, we went to the local supermarket. We came back with the lemons and the limes and the you know, and we we sort of bag of ice. It wasn't exactly professional bartending, but we're in the distillery and we're making the drinks with it, making sours and things. And Dale got very excited about one of his recipes.

00:38:59:01 - 00:39:17:20
Simon
He's like, That's your gin. I love that gin. Just he was in the zone with it and he and he said this one. That's what the way we would try fortunes that day. These three not so good. They were good. But it's like this one taste a bit like this gin. I know this one has this ingredient that's famous for this other gin.

00:39:17:20 - 00:39:25:13
Jessie
Well, that's amazing to have the guy like that with that cute palate that can tell you that. I mean, that's really cool.

00:39:25:15 - 00:39:41:13
Simon
And, you know, so and so. So there was. So I actually call my business partner we've got the gin is done and then I and I and I flew it I threw that gin back in my suitcase back to New York, and I went into a bar and I was like, okay, martini time, I'll have a brand bought Martini next.

00:39:41:13 - 00:40:03:09
Simon
Brand martini. Can you make one with this? Obviously, No, no, no. Label waffle. And I tried I tried it in a martini and I went, I don't like this one. It's not my favorite. And I and I spent I would spend the next, I want to say, few months making and seeing if I could an extra ingredient.

00:40:03:09 - 00:40:31:02
Simon
I was like, it was close, but it wasn't there. But I realized but actually we ended up with that recipe. It wasn't. It wasn't that the it wasn't that the flavor wasn't there. It just was the body and the viscosity was in there and making it a full, rich mouthfeel of a martini. And so after trying some new ingredients and then giving up on that approach, I had this epiphany that it was the oil content that comes from the botanicals.

00:40:31:04 - 00:40:57:11
Simon
And so we started experimenting with different levels of of botanicals to provide more of the essential oils, and that gives more viscosity and mouthfeel to the gin. And so we were doing that experiments with that. And so the recipe that day I love that day is the recipe that's in the bottle today. But just with more ingredients used to make it so that has more body and viscosity so that it makes a silky smooth start.

00:40:57:11 - 00:40:58:19
Simon
Drink like a martini.

00:40:58:21 - 00:41:00:20
Jessie
Well, thank you for taking.

00:41:00:20 - 00:41:03:22
Simon
The time to take the gin. Yes.

00:41:04:00 - 00:41:13:01
Jessie
I do have one question while we get ready. What would you mix with the ginger gin? Like what cocktail would you make?

00:41:13:03 - 00:41:41:19
Simon
I mean, obviously, I love gin and ginger. I love doing this drink called a I think it's called Gin Turbo, where you put a shot of espresso, a shot of gin and top it with tonic water. I feel like a ginger gin would do do well in that. I actually don't think it would. I think it would do all right in I and just a classic gin and tonic in general.

00:41:42:00 - 00:41:56:10
Simon
There's that sort of bitterness that's already there in the gin and tonic. So I think that would be nice. I mean the garden isn't the gin mill. I like the mint. And the ginger would just be.

00:41:56:12 - 00:41:57:07
Jessie
yeah, yeah.

00:41:57:07 - 00:41:59:04
Simon
Yeah, yeah.

00:41:59:06 - 00:42:06:13
Jessie
I feel you're inspired me to, like, try this ginger and, like, infuse it or something.

00:42:06:14 - 00:42:15:10
Simon
But for now, for now we get our ginger juice or our ginger beer or something. Yeah, but gin and gin and ginger is actually an unsung hero of the general.

00:42:15:10 - 00:42:17:13
Jessie
I didn't know that.

00:42:17:15 - 00:42:20:11
Simon
You know, no one really drinks gin and ginger, but I do.

00:42:20:11 - 00:42:24:00
Jessie
I've never really heard of that combination before.

00:42:24:02 - 00:42:27:14
Simon
Now, this isn't Ginger like it?

00:42:27:16 - 00:42:30:05
Jessie
Yeah. My brain is going. Yes.

00:42:30:07 - 00:42:33:18
Jessie
I must try. I'm not going.

00:42:33:18 - 00:42:36:10
Jessie
To stop until I figure it out.

00:42:36:12 - 00:42:46:10
Simon
No, no. Right. I'm drinking ginger tea right now so I can give you a real, real in real time. yeah.

00:42:46:12 - 00:42:56:01
Jessie
I drink ginger tea. Also, I make my own ginger ale. It's fresh ginger. It's so easy.

00:42:56:03 - 00:42:59:17
Simon
What do you mean? Carbonated water, Soda. Water. Yeah.

00:42:59:17 - 00:43:23:16
Jessie
You just take fresh ginger, You cut off the the skin, and then you chop it up and you make kind of like a concentrate. And so you boil it for, like, 5 minutes, and then you let it steep for like 20, 25. Then you take the ginger out and then you just use that as a concentrate. You pour that in, you know, with ice or whatever, and then just pour sparkling on top and you get it like that.

00:43:23:16 - 00:43:27:07
Jessie
Yeah. It's so yummy. I love it so much.

00:43:27:08 - 00:43:51:18
Simon
One of my favorite things about the bar at Adeboye and the varnish and the bars that came out of this with milk and honey is they use this fresh ginger juice in their cocktails and I love it. It's. It's me anyway, my love for ginger. It I you know where my love truly came from I was I did I climbed a mountain once in my past life and and and it was the ginger that got me up to the top.

00:43:51:18 - 00:43:53:11
Simon
And I've loved the flavor of it ever since.

00:43:53:14 - 00:43:54:00
Jessie
Really?

00:43:54:05 - 00:43:56:10
Jessie
What do you mean, it got it to the top?

00:43:56:12 - 00:44:17:18
Simon
Well, the the crew that were there were motivating us that this mountain kept giving us ginger tea. And. And of course, it's got a lot of health benefits, but it was just also hydrating me. So I, I thank ginger tea for getting me acquired this taste for it you know, just like, well, this is good. This is good.

00:44:18:00 - 00:44:19:15
Simon
Can I have some tea?

00:44:19:17 - 00:44:24:00
Jessie
And happy memories, too? How how tall was it then?

00:44:24:02 - 00:44:34:01
Simon
That was Mount Kilimanjaro. So it's like almost. It was 19,000 meters. Is it feet? So I don't. Yeah, I did almost 20,000.

00:44:34:06 - 00:44:42:02
Jessie
Mount Kinabalu and Malaysia and that was 14,000. How many. 14,000 feet.

00:44:42:04 - 00:44:44:16
Simon
Yeah. Is that recommended.

00:44:44:18 - 00:45:10:19
Jessie
I loved every second of that being in that country. I love it because it's tropical, right. The whole half to three quarters of it's tropical. And then you stay overnight in this camp of rocks and then thank goodness it's nighttime because you get up at in the morning and you're climbing ropes on rocks. And it's like, if I had seen what I was doing during the day, I would have never made it so.

00:45:10:21 - 00:45:29:17
Jessie
But we had a guide. Your ginger is my guide. He's like, Jesse, you're here. You're going to me because my legs work. I mean, I was literally crying with pain because it's like, but it's such a that's so big, you know, to to accomplish something like that. It's huge. So that's cool.

00:45:29:19 - 00:45:34:09
Simon
It was fun. It's about seven years ago now, maybe even eight. So it's been a while.

00:45:34:11 - 00:45:46:14
Jessie
gosh, I did mine 20 years ago. I can't imagine doing it now. All right. So ready to taste.

00:45:46:16 - 00:46:10:04
Simon
If you try some ginger. Yeah, I suppose it's interesting. Like no one drinks gin. Neat. Really? There's no applications, but you know that no one walks into a bar and says, Give me a gin on the rocks, or I'll have a gin with a splash of water. It's not really a it's not really a you know, I'm sure there's someone out there exceptions to every rule, but it's not as common as, say, whiskey or.

00:46:10:05 - 00:46:10:12
Jessie
Right.

00:46:10:12 - 00:46:41:22
Simon
100% most of the spirits. Right. And so we're trying it not in its natural environment right now. That affords us a little bit stronger than most gins. No, it's weaker than some also, but it's 45% ABV. So we're about to drink room temperature. Neat gin. Yes. And you know, what's interesting about gin is there are all these complex flavors that come from all these botanicals.

00:46:41:22 - 00:47:00:21
Simon
Yeah. When something like the mood or when there's something in something like a bitters, that's sugar to balance it. But you expect that balance to come from what is mixed in a cocktail. And so that sugar comes when you put the tonic in order, then move into it. So it's never the easiest thing to taste. I don't think gin is.

00:47:00:23 - 00:47:07:15
Jessie
Well, I feel it's also a very polarizing. Juniper is very polarizing. It's you love it or you go.

00:47:07:17 - 00:47:30:03
Simon
Yeah, I hope you pick up that delicate level of juniper that I was talking about earlier. You know, is there is the when when you smell it, which is 45 degrees once you get past the alcohol, I'm hoping that actually what you smell is the juniper forest with a little bit of citrus is quite muted on the nose for is it's just yeah it's very juniper but.

00:47:30:03 - 00:47:41:22
Jessie
It is just it's not as well balanced It it's not like, my gosh, that's Juniper. I mean it smells like it's got a lot of softness to it and layers, right?

00:47:41:22 - 00:48:04:23
Simon
Like yeah, that's what I love about it. The citrus coming through and we're going to we're going to have some fun in a minute when we add water, but I'm going to suggest you do a little taste. Okay? If you're tasting now, for me, it's quite chewier mouthfeel.

00:48:05:01 - 00:48:06:21
Jessie


00:48:06:23 - 00:48:35:09
Simon
I've got, like, saliva on the sides of my tongue. So I now, which is the citrus going to work? The predominant flavor on the top of my mouth a little bit. This little bit of sweetness, but not a lot has come out. But remember, we made this for how it works in a mixed drink based on the fact that that how it mixes is how the consumer in a will will receive it.

00:48:35:09 - 00:48:58:22
Simon
So our opinion and our philosophy, I'm going to say, is this isn't the finished product, what you do with it and how you mix it is the finished product. And so if we wanted our gin to taste, have more of the flavor showing on the initial taste, we would have probably lowered the ABV. But that happens when you mix it in a martini, you shake it, right?

00:48:59:03 - 00:49:11:15
Simon
So the experiment and this is why I mentioned this case and water when we were preparing for this is if you put a little splash of water, only about 10% a little bit, it will open up this gin and it will open.

00:49:11:15 - 00:49:14:21
Jessie
Up too much water.

00:49:14:22 - 00:49:19:03
Simon
Yeah. How much you want to put is that is that the gin and the water?

00:49:19:03 - 00:49:21:11
Jessie
That this is water.

00:49:21:13 - 00:49:26:21
Simon
Yeah. You only want a little. A little. A little tiny part of that. Just a little dribble and really.

00:49:27:02 - 00:49:28:17
Jessie
Maybe like that.

00:49:28:19 - 00:49:30:17
Simon
Yeah. Then it makes sense.

00:49:30:19 - 00:49:31:09
Jessie
Okay.

00:49:31:11 - 00:49:32:13
Simon
You should be in good shape and.

00:49:32:13 - 00:49:37:01
Jessie
Then this in there.

00:49:37:03 - 00:49:40:11
Simon
I actually pour a little bit of water into the gin.

00:49:40:13 - 00:49:41:12
Jessie
Okay.

00:49:41:14 - 00:49:49:12
Simon
The all around just. And I'll say as I stop. You are probably good.

00:49:49:14 - 00:49:54:01
Jessie
Dribble, dribble, dribble that.

00:49:54:03 - 00:50:15:01
Simon
Yeah. And then and then if you taste it now hopefully what will happen is the jasmine flower and the grapefruit. And when you sip it it's actually got more viscosity and more body and richness than it had. It's become coming, tasting more diluted. It actually now tastes richer and fuller, which is what will happen when you mix in a cocktail.

00:50:15:01 - 00:50:43:03
Jessie
So 100%, you know, I could really get that grapefruit. It wasn't overwhelming or anything. I just you sense it that it's there, right? It was really awesome. And the the longevity of all the flavors in your mouth after you take a drink was is spectacular. It's so much fun because you can feel the the different layers of the different flavors.

00:50:43:05 - 00:51:04:13
Simon
I love it. And to your point, I mean, you know, it tastes slightly different every time I try it, you know, because your palate is slightly different every day. But I'm getting a lot of grapefruit today. And and that dryness from the flowers, from the jasmine flowers, it gives it that dry finish and that floral long note at the very end of it, you know, and it all is in there complimenting the juniper.

00:51:04:13 - 00:51:25:18
Simon
And there is a flavor in that. It's kind of fighting a little bit with the juniper that sort of dominance on the palate, and that's the coriander that that is because the structure of that starts to come out of that giving me some more of the citrus as well. But that balance is there and you get more of that sweetness on the front of the tongue so that then it creates that more coated mouthfeel.

00:51:25:20 - 00:51:42:23
Simon
But again, that's what it is. That's what happens to food inside the mixed drink, which is why I always recommend try it without end. You get this quite clean gin, but then you add a little splash of water and you get this very rich, full gin. Yeah.

00:51:43:00 - 00:51:55:21
Jessie
So it opens up it. It's like. It just kind of I don't know how to explain. It releases all these aromas. And, you know.

00:51:55:23 - 00:52:09:09
Simon
And allergens actually open up with aromas. It's actually a good experiment to do with them. Not many get rich or on the palate, but most of them open up and that's it's a nice way to actually taste gin. And I think and another thing.

00:52:09:11 - 00:52:19:18
Jessie
So I was just going to say, I think by adding the water, it it's it's really more diluting the juniper and allowing the other flavors to come through.

00:52:19:20 - 00:52:52:12
Simon
Yes. The balance has arrived. Yeah, it's we've done experiments patients with different ABV on boards and it's amazing just the dynamic change. We did a Navy Navy strength, you know, like an overproof at one point. And the more alcohol we hold in that. So that was 54.5%. That version of it's the more juniper we've got, we've never put one out that is obviously weaker than 45% ABV, but we've tried it and it holds less.

00:52:52:12 - 00:53:03:01
Simon
Juniper is very interesting, but there's a the the the ABV holds the Juniper flavor quite there's a there's a scale in which it works that is never seen before. Yeah.

00:53:03:04 - 00:53:07:14
Jessie
Wow. That's fascinating.

00:53:07:16 - 00:53:30:12
Simon
Well, thank you for tasting the game. And may I ask you, the most important thing is liquid to lips, in my opinion. You know, like when someone gets the taste it, then they get to make their mind up. You know, the story is the passion. The story is the ingredients. The story is how we make it. But I am a believer that taste and flavor should be the most important thing.

00:53:30:15 - 00:53:54:07
Jessie
Yeah, well, I think that's, you know, certainly a part of your success, right? Because it's you took two and a half years. You got it right. You made sure it was right. And what you know, Tony calls it the bartenders gin. Right. So it made by a bartender for bartenders. Because, you know, when you hear the story of, you know, you you wanted one gin to two to, you know, be used with multiple cocktails.

00:53:54:12 - 00:53:57:03
Jessie
It is for the bartenders, for their sanity.

00:53:57:05 - 00:53:57:23
Jessie
Right?

00:53:58:01 - 00:54:04:17
Jessie
When they're high volume places, it's like, I can do for just like these ten drinks hearing that.

00:54:04:19 - 00:54:31:19
Simon
That's what Tony calls it like, that makes me feel very, very warm indeed. And I, you know, I mean, he's like the bartenders bartender. He's like the original, you know, he was when when I when I was first coming over to the United States, there weren't many people with passion like he had it. You know, he's inspired a lot of people and and I remember no one was making negronis, but he was.

00:54:31:21 - 00:54:39:13
Jessie
That is so cool, which we made on his podcast in which I in for Tony. I made the Negroni.

00:54:39:14 - 00:54:40:21
Simon
And.

00:54:40:23 - 00:54:41:01
Jessie
I.

00:54:41:03 - 00:54:41:23
Simon
Loved that.

00:54:42:01 - 00:54:45:16
Jessie
He used Fords Gin on our podcast.

00:54:45:18 - 00:54:47:15
Simon
I did know that I did you tell me that?

00:54:47:15 - 00:54:49:08
Jessie
I don't know who.

00:54:49:10 - 00:54:52:22
Simon
That might that might be how I got introduced to your podcast, actually. But I did know that.

00:54:53:04 - 00:55:03:07
Jessie
That could be that could be, yeah, I actually I think it might have been after Clare's podcast, too, because I feel like we talked about you at some point.

00:55:03:09 - 00:55:04:20
Simon
Yeah.

00:55:04:22 - 00:55:12:16
Jessie
So anyway, yeah, but I'm just so glad that we're here. This is so much fun. I could do this all day.

00:55:12:18 - 00:55:14:14
Jessie
You know.

00:55:14:16 - 00:55:47:14
Simon
It's, I mean, the hospitality industry for me is one of the most giving. I, I found I found my home in it, not, you know, and I didn't come into it in a traditional way. I worked in a wine shop, my favorite job still. But. But I met bartenders after I took a marketing role. And so I moved into the corporate world and saw what bartenders were doing.

00:55:47:14 - 00:56:10:09
Simon
They were changing the way people drank and they were influenced the flavors and they were passionate and making, you know, trying to convince people it's not just about getting drunk is about enjoying this and that, and it's great. And and then on top of that, bartenders are so much more you know, the curators are conductors, right? They conduct the crowd and the audience.

00:56:10:09 - 00:56:35:07
Simon
But the bar is the environment, the atmosphere, the music, the people that are there, the energy that that gives that. And the energy can come from a million places, from the people that run it, the people that visited that, the declaration of the of the bar. And so being in hospitality so much more than making a drink or being a bartender is the entire world of trying to make someone feel great.

00:56:35:07 - 00:56:57:13
Simon
And I noticed that for the first time when I was working with these bartenders, when I was in this marketing position and I thought to myself, I want to be like them. And and so I left and became a bartender. I left the corporate world in a way, you know, and, and, and those years gave me so much insight into people.

00:56:57:13 - 00:57:12:16
Simon
Yeah. How they ought to drink the psychology of what people like and to order and how they interact with each other and of course an understanding of the industry so that when I watch a TV show like the Barry gives me, it makes me feel terrible.

00:57:12:18 - 00:57:21:06
Jessie
I haven't seen it yet, but it's on our list. I don't get to watch much TV these days, but it's like the third time it's been brought up on that podcast.

00:57:21:08 - 00:57:39:14
Simon
Yeah, anyone that anyone who works in service probably gets PTSD when they watch it. There's. I only just started watching it, which is why it's on my mind. But I'm like, my God, this is this is incredible. But also I don't want those memories. I forgot. I've forgotten you.

00:57:39:15 - 00:57:42:22
Jessie
Forget the bad stuff.

00:57:43:00 - 00:58:10:13
Jessie
So for you to go from corporate to to bartending is certainly opposite of probably many in the field. So for me I've, you know, I've attended bar made like very simple cocktails back in my hometown. I was never you know I'm not a cocktail. I don't make cocktails I'm not I'm I'm okay at it if I have a recipe and I watch Tony do it and then I just copy what he does.

00:58:10:15 - 00:58:21:08
Jessie
But was it over whelming for you to, to, to, to try to tackle like, my gosh, I have to memorize 250 recipes, cocktail recipes.

00:58:21:10 - 00:58:47:09
Simon
I, I loved it. In fact, I, I remember working with a really good friend of mine who's in this industry to this day is named Sebastian Hamilton Much he he has a little magazine called Candor. And he he just wrote a cocktail book, actually. And but back back then he and I put together a database and we memorized it and we loved it.

00:58:47:11 - 00:59:05:14
Simon
And and and we put it all up on a website. One of the first ones, actually, no, your cocktails, dot coms no longer there. Of course, long ago. And that was through the process of being behind the bar and going, here's a new drink that's going it up on the website, here's the drink, just get it on the website.

00:59:05:15 - 00:59:28:23
Simon
And it was recommended as the go to place for recipes back in the day. It was really quite a cool process, but I feel like most of the knowledge I still have in this head because you can't delete some stuff like most of the knowledge of cocktails in my head is from those days when I was bartending and I and I think one of my favorite things was I know how to make 200 drinks.

00:59:29:01 - 00:59:39:01
Simon
You know, I think that I actually really liked it. And of course, like any other bar, when someone asked for something you didn't know, you would go and look in our little file and see if we could.

00:59:39:01 - 00:59:40:14
Jessie
Find it.

00:59:40:16 - 00:59:53:17
Simon
On tablets. Now you can just Google these things, but show my age. But back then there was no real database to to just access online. Now there's some brilliant apps that you can get. Yeah I website.

00:59:53:19 - 00:59:57:18
Jessie
Well there wasn't as many cocktails probably back then I also it was.

00:59:57:19 - 01:00:16:05
Simon
No more more more that it was like if that was the era of like all of the shots you know like, you know, you got to think of the Tom Cruise. Ezra Yeah. And learn all of these different shots and, and shots.

01:00:16:07 - 01:00:22:19
Jessie
Yes, shots. Nixon Lemon drop. That's that's one I know the phrase.

01:00:22:22 - 01:00:39:23
Simon
LEMON Drop the B 52. I was it was, it was it was very. And then there were all the variants on the B 52. You had to know them all that was I think that that was an area where there was pride in knowing all of the drinks. The trouble was there wasn't pride in making them.

01:00:40:04 - 01:00:42:17
Jessie
You know.

01:00:42:19 - 01:01:01:14
Jessie
This is a really random weird question, but I think about this. I used to work at Remy and whenever you go to a bar and it didn't matter where it was, Galliano would always be on the back bar. It had dust on it, but it was always I mean, it had to be.

01:01:01:14 - 01:01:03:00
Jessie
One of the most distributed.

01:01:03:02 - 01:01:05:02
Jessie
Items. And I don't know, it just didn't sell. It just.

01:01:05:02 - 01:01:06:01
Jessie
Sat there.

01:01:06:03 - 01:01:22:04
Jessie
Or what. But that's completely changed is as our industry has grown, you know, with all these different types. But is there is there a bottle that you feel like is kind of the Galliano of the back bar that everybody needs or every or everybody.

01:01:22:06 - 01:01:24:23
Simon
Has got the Harvey Wall back?

01:01:25:00 - 01:01:27:00
Jessie
Harvey Wall there.

01:01:27:02 - 01:01:50:14
Simon
People stop making that. Is there a bottle that every bar I mean, right now, you know, is Campari, right? Yeah, that's right. You can't in a move for not having that bottle you know like negronis are obviously big but it sort of plays a role in a lot of the cocktails that people like right now. But that's spurring on more bitters to be created.

01:01:50:16 - 01:02:01:12
Simon
But are you thinking more? Is there an ingredient that's out there, like back in the day that it just gathered dust and now and now it is like on form?

01:02:01:14 - 01:02:23:08
Jessie
I don't know if there's that. I'm not sure. You know, talking about old school, my one of my good friends, her, her grandmother, love making cocktails and have people over in the Staten Island. I've got about eight or ten bottles that are unopened of the kipper and some other stuff that are from, like the forties and fifties.

01:02:23:10 - 01:02:39:02
Jessie
Nice. It's so cool I'm going to have to figure out how to display them or show them with people because they're, they're untouched. It's, they're, it's just so cool to see how you know what it was like back then.

01:02:39:04 - 01:03:05:21
Simon
I know it'd be nice to get someone who could give you some insights as to how it was made in that year and where it was made and in know who made it and just get some stories about it, you know, so that when you try it, you know the difference between that version. I feel like we do try vintage spirits and vintage liqueurs a lot these days and we find them, but we don't look into them like we look into modern spirits, you know.

01:03:05:23 - 01:03:16:08
Simon
You started this by talking about getting a bottle signed by a master distiller at the very top of this. You know, who is that person for those products back in the day?

01:03:16:10 - 01:03:18:17
Jessie
In a very good point.

01:03:18:18 - 01:03:34:22
Simon
You know, I feel like that might make the journey even more and even more fun. Yeah. You might find that that blue Curacao was made with, I don't know, something completely different than blue Curacao is made today. Yeah, I don't know. I wish it was nerdy enough to know that answer.

01:03:35:00 - 01:03:46:14
Jessie
I know that that is really cool. That's like layer upon layer of, you know, the, you know, digging in and it's just having the time, you know, to, to, to do it.

01:03:46:16 - 01:03:57:06
Simon
Because I believe that the original Southern Comfort was like a peach infused whiskey before it became the thing that gave us all really about hanging.

01:03:57:07 - 01:04:00:13
Jessie
It's the gateway. It's the gateway.

01:04:00:15 - 01:04:13:09
Simon
The other the other thing about it is I think that I don't know this for sure, but someone could correct us in the comments or however, but I believe it was actually made by bartenders to really the very. Yeah. Back in the day.

01:04:13:10 - 01:04:16:23
Jessie
That is interesting. Well you'll have to find out.

01:04:17:01 - 01:04:22:00
Simon
What is this something I know lots about, isn't it. Like, you know being a.

01:04:22:02 - 01:04:22:07
Jessie
Not.

01:04:22:07 - 01:04:23:21
Jessie
Necessarily.

01:04:23:23 - 01:04:49:20
Simon
You. I will say that, you know, there were companies out there that were bartenders creating things like bitters, the bitter truth guys in Germany. But there were, you know, various bartenders trying to become entrepreneurs in the spirits bitters and the as well. And that was what inspired me as well. You know, as well as, you know, Sasha and my friends and, you know, and my business partner at the time, Malte, was the one that went, let's do this, let's do your idea, let's do it.

01:04:49:20 - 01:05:07:05
Simon
You know, And it always takes motivation, you know, and the people behind it to do that. And and so I you know, I do pride myself on being as knowledgeable as I can possibly be. So knowing brands made by bartenders is something I should know the more.

01:05:07:07 - 01:05:07:11
Jessie
Well.

01:05:07:11 - 01:05:23:06
Jessie
That could be part of your next journey as you as you, you know, research as you go. Maybe there's a book you could you could write a book about brands that are created by bartenders.

01:05:23:08 - 01:05:28:11
Simon
And now I still want to write one about gin publishers.

01:05:28:13 - 01:05:49:00
Jessie
Well, it's a tremendous story. And, you know, you could really nerd out with your journey on flavors. You know, I would love I mean, I could talk about that just for an hour, just learning how, you know, how just getting into more detail, I guess, then, you know, what we have time with for today.

01:05:49:02 - 01:06:09:11
Simon
And we're going to when will when I when we're traveling some me and Charles Maxwell, the 11th generation master distiller, we're going to talk about several cities, seven or eight cities in the United States in April doing talks on gin and how we made it and how we collaborated to create forged gin. So I think Houston and Dallas are on they are on the cards.

01:06:09:11 - 01:06:17:23
Simon
So if if you happen to be back in Dallas, but when we're there, please, please come and you can nerd out with the both of us.

01:06:18:01 - 01:06:25:05
Jessie
I love it. I'll be glad to nerd out with you. That'll be fun. Yeah, we'll be there. So that's great.

01:06:25:07 - 01:06:26:12
Simon
Nice. Yeah.

01:06:26:14 - 01:07:01:21
Jessie
So I have one more comment about my one of the questions I ask Tony in the question is, you know, referring back to using forged in and talking with Tony and, you know, being in the industry for me, you know, gin has had its ups and downs, right? And so thinking back during those times, gosh, it's almost ten years ago now, I asked him, I said, do you think that Fords gin, you know, because of the the bartender renaissance that it had, did it help bring gin back in?

01:07:01:21 - 01:07:15:07
Jessie
He's he said he thought about it. He's like, yeah, for sure. Like it really it really kind of reinvigorated the category because of what it represented and because of the usability I.

01:07:15:09 - 01:07:46:18
Simon
I say all the time, Jesse, there's just a synergy between cocktails and gin. You know, most, most spirits. Their primary use has always been neat, you know, or, you know, like if you think about vodka, it's this chilled and served as a shot with, you know, raw fish and things like that. And, and, you know, Russia and and the Ukraine and Poland and places where it comes from.

01:07:46:20 - 01:08:15:11
Simon
And and then if think about whiskey, you know, we don't get neat and brandy we put it in a snifter, you know like that was that is the way these these spirits were designed then the way they were drunk. And. Whereas gin has entire history, relies on being mixed from pink gin, you know, in the 1820s to the gin and tonic, you know, and then of course, it becomes very popular with the martini.

01:08:15:11 - 01:08:39:11
Simon
And you just see all of these these fake drinks, gin famous rather than the other way round. And they're probably more classic gin cocktails than with any other category of spirits rums that, you know, has Tiki. So that might be the exception. But when the cocktail culture wasn't doing so well, nor was gin, and now the cocktail culture is doing well, gin seems to be doing well.

01:08:39:11 - 01:08:49:18
Simon
And and and it seems to be the most featured spirit on cocktail menus right now. So it's kind of. Yeah to cocktail culture helps gin.

01:08:49:20 - 01:08:50:10
Jessie
Interested.

01:08:50:10 - 01:09:04:01
Simon
Remarkably and and then of course cocktail culture inspired Fords gin inspired completely what we did we looked what was happening in the present but we also were completely inspired by those classic cocktails that made famous.

01:09:04:03 - 01:09:07:05
Jessie
Yeah, for sure.

01:09:07:07 - 01:09:07:21
Simon
I love it.

01:09:07:21 - 01:09:31:07
Jessie
Yeah, I do too. I really do. I love. I love gin. There's just so many different types and flavors. And one thing I on the podcast was I interviewed Chris Scott. I don't know if you've ever heard of him. He's w set level one, two, three and four certified. He's an educator and then he does wine tastings and whatnot.

01:09:31:07 - 01:09:48:09
Jessie
He and his wife Jane I wouldn't have I passed with merit on the W set level three because of them and their program and their flashcards and whatever. But we we talked for 2 hours. We had so much fun. But he's like, okay, it's time for happy hour, you know, in the UK. And I'm like, Well, what are you going to drink?

01:09:48:09 - 01:09:51:21
Jessie
He's like gin and tonic. And I'm like, What?

01:09:51:23 - 01:09:52:13
Jessie
Yeah, just.

01:09:52:13 - 01:10:06:03
Jessie
A classic gin and tonic. He's like, So, you know, all these flavors are so absurd and this, that and the other. He's like, I just want a classic gin and tonic. And so apparently what I learned is that gin is really hot in the UK right now.

01:10:06:05 - 01:10:28:20
Simon
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously it's it's, it's home you know but Spain, UK, they're two of the biggest markets in the world right now as so many gins that could be tried. People drinking it everywhere is even gone down the path of having flavored gins although gin has flavor.

01:10:28:22 - 01:10:37:23
Jessie
Yeah he's like you can't make a gin without juniper. That's classic cake you got to focus on.

01:10:38:01 - 01:10:55:20
Simon
But gin when I when I was growing up, gin wasn't the biggest selling spirit in England. It was whiskey. It's got scotch, whiskey, and now it's the biggest in England again, you know, So it is. It really is on fire. And the gin and tonic is driving all of that. All of the drinking that.

01:10:55:22 - 01:10:56:04
Jessie
That's.

01:10:56:04 - 01:10:58:19
Simon
Great. Whereas in the US it's cocktail.

01:10:58:19 - 01:11:11:15
Jessie
Culture, cocktails. One more question about the profile. You mentioned that it's London Dry Gin. Can you talk a little bit about that and what that means and how it adds to the.

01:11:11:17 - 01:11:12:11
Simon
yeah.

01:11:12:13 - 01:11:15:01
Jessie
The mix ability of it.

01:11:15:03 - 01:11:18:09
Simon
I'm really proud of Forges London Dry gin.

01:11:18:11 - 01:11:21:22
Jessie
I like that too. So, you know. Yeah, I like it.

01:11:21:23 - 01:11:44:17
Simon
You have to follow a few few additional rules is what that means. Okay. And so you know any any gin that says London Dry gin on it. Not London gin, but London dry gin. You know, probably it's a good start for finding a good gin. You know, I always say look for two things. Either the words distilled gin or London dry gin on a on a bottle.

01:11:44:17 - 01:12:17:09
Simon
And because that means it's been made with real ingredients. And that's been it means those ingredients have been distilled in traditional methods, which is about extracting the essential oils, which gives the body and flavor to the gin. So starting with London, dry gin is a really good start. The other thing with London dry gin that I like lot is that nothing can be added off the distillation except for a little bit more neutral grain, spirit and water.

01:12:17:12 - 01:12:41:09
Simon
So can add flavors or compounds or anything like that, or sweeteners, none of those things. So that what is being drunk what is London Dry gin is truly the work of the ingredients and the distiller. So that's something that I like. Yeah, that makes it London. London Dry gin. It's not a geographical indication you can make London dry gin anywhere.

01:12:41:11 - 01:12:49:03
Simon
Okay, so but that's what I like. It just sort of you're governed by a few rules that govern quality and so that's nice.

01:12:49:05 - 01:13:05:02
Jessie
Yeah, I agree. It's awesome. Well, this is. This is amazing. Are you ready to jump into your your journey? I know you mentioned a few jobs already, but where where were you born? Where are you from?

01:13:05:04 - 01:13:30:20
Simon
From England to the south of England. Born in Hastings, but grew up actually in the town of Bath. Okay. Yeah. Which is beautiful. Beautiful part of the West country. Then I. Then I moved to London, found my soul in Brighton, which is one of my favorite parts of England. It's just south of south of London on the on the coast.

01:13:30:20 - 01:13:46:01
Simon
But London is possibly the greatest city in the world for me. And and so I found my my way back to. But yeah, that was that was really my formative years were all in England and that's where I was born.

01:13:46:02 - 01:13:53:18
Jessie
Okay awesome. And you you mentioned your first job in the industry was at a wine shop.

01:13:53:20 - 01:14:21:02
Simon
Yes, in Bath of all places. And really, really a young Simon Ford back then didn't know much about anything. And I remember getting my first day, you know, my first day in the wine shop and the manager saying, what should we drink? And I said, I don't really like wine. And he said to me, How the hell did I give you this job?

01:14:21:04 - 01:14:43:15
Simon
You know? And I think he said something along the lines of, well, what if we get if we open a bottle, can it be like medium dry or either. And so it this, this annoyed him enough that he thrust a bottle in my hand and said, I want you to write notes on this wine and bring them back to me tomorrow.

01:14:43:15 - 01:14:58:03
Simon
And if I'm not satisfied, you're fired. And he put this bottle of wine in my hands and I took it home and I took it to my then girlfriend's house, actually. And and her family were all fans of wine.

01:14:58:09 - 01:14:59:22
Jessie
And goodness.

01:15:00:00 - 01:15:18:12
Simon
And I knew so much about the bottle I brought back. It was I remember it very well. It was a wine from Karl. You've done level three, so you'll know it well. You know, they're known as black wines. It was it's Malbec indigenous and you don't see them that often. But that was the first bottle of wine it gave me.

01:15:18:13 - 01:15:39:12
Simon
Gave it to me to, Trick me. I went back and it just so happened that everyone knew about these wines where I went. My, my then girlfriend was French, and so I was cheating and perfect. And I wrote the note and he went, wow, that's good. And so I think the next bottle was shattered enough to pop.

01:15:39:14 - 01:15:55:19
Simon
My best friend came from the Rhone Valley, you know, So all of a sudden I'm writing those notes is like, Whoa, gave me a burgundy. And then and, you know, and I was like, I told him I didn't like red wine, right? That was why he thought.

01:15:55:21 - 01:15:58:23
Jessie
It sounds a little like Slumdog Millionaire here.

01:15:59:00 - 01:16:04:07
Simon
Yeah. Have you seen that movie? Yeah, I love it. And the best is so funny.

01:16:04:09 - 01:16:06:13
Jessie
So the third wine.

01:16:06:15 - 01:16:38:07
Simon
By the third wine and the third wine, the passion that's stayed with me forever with Burgundy and. And so, you know, it was just a great learning. And so we would open wines each night, write notes, and every single bottle in that store, handwritten notes on the produce of the winemaker. And I did my WCT at that time and and just fell in love with the entire wine industry, went and did a couple of I went and picked grapes one year in France.

01:16:38:07 - 01:17:00:11
Simon
Nice was nice you know, in Bordeaux which was which was, which was fun. I just I still have a huge passion for wine. It's still one of my favorite things in the world. You know, prices have gone up a lot since I was doing it. And it's a little bit more elitist than it was. Yeah, But, you know, and those those great wines that I was to enjoy then are a lot more expensive now.

01:17:00:11 - 01:17:18:00
Simon
But I really cherish those moments. And when I was working in those wine shops and people would come and they would trust you with your decision and choice for wine, and then they'll come back and try something new and you could convince them to buy Greek wines and, and, you know, and create wines from crazy parts of the world.

01:17:18:00 - 01:17:37:14
Simon
And they'd be like, wow, I never thought and I used to really, really enjoy that. And I would do wine tastings in store and we would obviously have wine nights. Yeah, that's where I started. But of course that would flow into this course, some crazy spirits. So we started with single malts and we'd bring those in. Then we were like, What's Pisco?

01:17:37:14 - 01:17:55:04
Simon
And so like the whole thing started to evolve. And so by the time I was ready to buy it and I had product knowledge. Yeah, you did. I had product knowledge and one of the wine shops that I ran after moving from Bath was in London, So I ran wine shops in Brighton, in London and in Bath. Right.

01:17:55:04 - 01:18:16:07
Simon
So I became a manager eventually moved around and this the shop that I was running in London was on the Strand opposite the Savoy Hotel. And so that's when I get my first kind of looking at the cocktail culture of the world, You know, Peter Tyrrell is over there. They would come to my store all the time to buy from me for special guests.

01:18:16:09 - 01:18:47:22
Simon
They would use my you know, they would use my storage sometimes, and I would bring in their house champagne for them. So I was doing business with the Savoy Circle. And so, yeah, I got to learn cocktail culture sort of subliminally that way. So when it came to actually going for a job in marketing, I had, you know, I worked in a store, you know, yeah, I had knowledge of drinks and things and so it sort of put me it was a nontraditional way to get into a marketing role.

01:18:47:22 - 01:19:02:09
Simon
But, but it got me into a marketing role all the same. And that marketing role was a brand that was beloved by bartenders. And so then I got to meet lots of bartenders, and that's when I truly fell in love with the hospitality industry.

01:19:02:11 - 01:19:17:09
Jessie
Yeah, that sounds that reminds me a bit about of Claire's journey too. She, she bartended in college and then that, that she started winning competitions and she's just awesome and ended up getting into the corporate world. So yeah, that's really.

01:19:17:09 - 01:19:43:04
Simon
Cool as a true star of the industry. And she always has been. Yeah. You know, she's actually, you know, it's funny that you said to me that she, she, you know, she just the way she thinks about things and her insights, you know, I, she always, whenever she does a talk or a seminar or a cocktail festival is always the one I learn the most from is always the one that thinks outside the box is always the one I enjoy the most.

01:19:43:06 - 01:19:50:03
Simon
She definitely has this way of looking at the world. Yeah, she. That's different, unique and brings perspective.

01:19:50:09 - 01:20:09:23
Jessie
And she normalizes it like it's no big deal. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like, this is revolutionary thought. No, this is like that. That's just really healthy. She just thinks normally about things, which is it's, it's I learned a lot from her as well and thought about things differently.

01:20:10:01 - 01:20:31:15
Simon
Nice. Yeah. Yeah. That's good when someone inspires you. Yeah and that so yeah I my journey was through through wine and I've never let go of that love. Yeah, it's, it's, it's still one of my favorite things. I am said to indulge every now and then and it could be all Yeah.

01:20:31:19 - 01:20:34:04
Jessie
Well, that's what life's about.

01:20:34:06 - 01:20:38:10
Simon
Yes, exactly. Is that for drinking? No, for not for collecting.

01:20:38:15 - 01:20:55:23
Jessie
That's what Jimmy says. Don't. He's like, I hate it. Not hate it. I mean, he wouldn't say something like that because, like, I don't make the these I don't bottle this product for not to be drink like who cares if I sign it, Just drink it. Enjoy it.

01:20:56:01 - 01:20:57:05
Jessie
Yeah.

01:20:57:07 - 01:21:00:12
Simon
Exactly. The collectors are the ones that push the price up.

01:21:00:14 - 01:21:08:11
Jessie
Yeah. Yeah. True. So after the bottle shop you get, you went and worked in marketing?

01:21:08:13 - 01:21:33:15
Simon
Yeah. And Seagram's were the biggest spirits in the world of Seagram's. Yeah. You know, they. They were distributing Absolut around the world. I had shivers. Patrick Stewart, Champagne membership. I mean, that, that portfolio. Martell cognac it was was huge and so huge. That's who I worked for until 2000. I bartended in Brighton from there, so that's why I bartended not London.

01:21:33:17 - 01:21:53:20
Simon
But it was fun to be back down by the beach. Yes, I love so much in England. And so that was enjoyable and someone knocked on my door a few years into that and said, Would you like to travel the world and launch this gin around the world, someone else's gin? That's why I'm not mentioning the name. And and that's where I learned, wow, all about it.

01:21:53:22 - 01:21:58:15
Simon
And I always liked gin and but that's where I truly fell in love with it.

01:21:58:17 - 01:22:26:14
Jessie
Yeah, well, I could see why. Mean, you're probably the perfect age to get on a plane, you know, and travel and, you know, learn all, you know, you know, learn how to mix it, how to, you know, have it interact with in different cultures and different concepts of, you know, within within a culture like restaurant or, you know, I guess and it was in retail, too, you know, that's really cool.

01:22:26:16 - 01:22:58:00
Simon
You know, we went to places like Australia, New Zealand, Spain. You know, it was it was really incredible for me. You know, I started getting to see the world through work and and the friends I made in that period of my and, you know, I've got best friends in Australia and best friends and, you know, they have far flung parts of the world and it's quite crazy, you know, like to think that that's made the world small for me and but also made it exciting.

01:22:58:01 - 01:22:58:20
Simon
Yeah.

01:22:58:22 - 01:23:18:06
Jessie
I would say I feel a little bit of that with the podcast. I mean, I'm obviously not traveling to their cultures, but you know, interviewing people from Spain and Italy in the UK has been it's been really, really, you know, an amazing journey to to do that. So I have a little bit of that understanding.

01:23:18:08 - 01:23:27:12
Simon
And of course, if you do travel, you know, you've made the acquaintance and you say, I'm coming to Nashville. SIMON Are you around where we go?

01:23:27:14 - 01:23:41:21
Jessie
Be careful what you ask for. My my my cousin just moved there a couple of weeks, couple of months ago. So there may be a trip there at some point. I don't think my wife has been there. So Maybe I'll venture over. It'd be.

01:23:41:21 - 01:23:46:08
Simon
Fun, but likely I'll see you in Dallas before then.

01:23:46:10 - 01:24:07:09
Jessie
Yeah, I hope so. So, do you have any mentors? I know you've mentioned a few people along the way, but anybody you want that kind of stands out that you want to mention that helped you? I mean, that person that knocked on your door and said, Hey, you want to travel around the world and talk, you know, learn about Jane, like, wow, that is just an amazing opportunity.

01:24:07:11 - 01:24:33:00
Simon
His name. Yes, I do. That person His name is Nick Black Male. I always followed his career path. The two steps behind, you know, when I was running the wine shop and he was the wine buyer, you know, And when I was when I took the marketing role, he was the director of marketing. And, you know, it was very interesting.

01:24:33:00 - 01:24:53:05
Simon
And at some point in his career path, he chose to join this small startup company. They weren't really a startup. They were actually the world's oldest gin distillery. But he decided to become the managing director of it and he was the person that called me up and said, Simon, do you want to, you know, travel the world and launch this gin for me?

01:24:53:07 - 01:25:26:14
Simon
And and so, of course, he's mentored me throughout my career at different points, right up until I would say right up until I started Foods Gin, which is really nice, but is one of great spirits brains of, you know, of marketing. He's worked on and built some of the biggest brands on the planet. And his mind for me, you know, you talk we were talking about Claire, his mind is this next level.

01:25:26:14 - 01:25:50:05
Simon
He just thinks about the things that can connect emotionally with people, you know, connect brands emotionally with people. He's so good at it. And so learning from from him throughout my career was was amazing. But he always had a lot of patience for me and gave me a lot of direction along the way. So do I do think of him as probably the most important mentor for me?

01:25:50:06 - 01:26:26:16
Simon
Yeah. And then this gentleman by the name of Charles Rose, who was actually his boss, and Charles Rose had bought this gin company. Sold this gin company, and then went on to create Fever-Tree Tonic and just happens to be one of the great entrepreneurs, business people of our time. And he's always been a part of my life and, you know, and helped me professionally, someone I've been able to call and ask questions about, you know, when and especially when I was an entrepreneur, that's when I really was able to to to tap in and to talk to him.

01:26:26:16 - 01:26:29:10
Simon
So he's a mentor of mine that.

01:26:29:10 - 01:26:30:18
Jessie
Is amazing.

01:26:30:20 - 01:27:08:02
Simon
To do. The two that that think have had the biggest impact on on on me for sure. You know I you know interesting for me though is I often see mentors in the people that I work with and not necessarily traditional mentors. So right now. I work as a part of a team of people and they all come with a different personality and a different skill set and in some instances on their boss, you know, in some instances I'm their equal or their colleague.

01:27:08:07 - 01:27:38:21
Simon
I don't ever really like to think in those terms and there are so many of those people that are my mentors. You know, I work with someone who's extremely thoughtful and and patient and then always has great idea at the end of it. And and I watch that person and think I could be more like that. And, you know, you know, and then I what would people that just have sort of creative ideas or can see a vision and bring it to life and and see it step by step and I'm working with them and, and they mentor me, you know.

01:27:38:23 - 01:28:02:06
Simon
So I hope that I, I hope I give back what I know enough, you know, but I find that I mentor by the people that I spend the most time with. Yeah. You know, it's something to learn from everybody. And I never want to change that about myself. I think all the time, you know, And I love a good disagreement, you know, as much as the next person, you know, as long as it's a healthy one.

01:28:02:08 - 01:28:14:16
Simon
But ultimately people come with different perspectives, different ideas, different backgrounds, different thought processes, and I love learning from the people around me. So right now I'm surrounded by mentors.

01:28:14:20 - 01:28:31:18
Jessie
That is awesome. I mean, what else could you ask for? That's that's incredible. It helps you wake up every day and be excited. And, you know, you're a learner. I'm a learner. I love learning. I love learning something new every day if you can, you know, yeah, that's. That's amazing.

01:28:31:20 - 01:28:45:21
Simon
And I do love what I do. You know, I can't. I can't complain about life. That's a very English thing to say. Don't get me wrong. I do complain, and that's because I'm English. But I shouldn't complain.

01:28:46:02 - 01:28:47:06
Jessie
That there.

01:28:47:10 - 01:28:47:21
Jessie
Blame it on.

01:28:47:21 - 01:28:53:10
Jessie
England. Yeah.

01:28:53:12 - 01:29:09:12
Jessie
that's funny. What about resources that you'd like to share? Is there anything that stands out to you that you'd like to kind of talk about? Like And it does. It could be professional, you know, professional growth. It doesn't have to be just the industry in general, just anything.

01:29:09:15 - 01:29:11:11
Simon
You mean by resources. It's like.

01:29:11:12 - 01:29:30:18
Jessie
Well, is there a book like if if, if you're a sales person, there's a sales book or, you know, if there's you know maybe there's a bartending Bible book that that, that you found really useful as you were learning, or is there podcasts out there right now that just help motivate you, whether that's you for me, that's mine Valley with vision.

01:29:30:18 - 01:29:54:21
Jessie
Like there's so many amazing people doing such great things that it's such a positive release, you know, when in like the last one was a guy talking about how important drinking water is and you should drink two glasses when you wake up in the morning and hydrate. It's so important. Now, just little things like that that just kind of give you nuggets of of information in life that you know that you'd like to share.

01:29:54:21 - 01:30:21:15
Simon
Yeah, there are a few actually that you give them context. I, I hear you. And there's, there's a book that always inspired me. Simon Sinek, start with why you know is the whole point is to stop and think, Why are you doing it? You know, how comes next? The what comes next? But why you don't have a why you probably shouldn't be there and you should really know your why.

01:30:21:21 - 01:30:47:05
Simon
The why is the most inspiring part of what you're doing, you know? And so that's probably my favorite book from a business perspective, you know, because it's very is it's very emotional driven, you know, like why why? You know, not why is in a four year old and why is that? Why is the son yellow not why like that.

01:30:47:05 - 01:31:19:23
Simon
But what is your purpose? Finding your purpose and your meaning to to actually do something, you know, and then and then and then create around that. And I really unreasonable hospitality, which is the book by Will Gandara. He came from 11 Madison Park, which was obviously and he was the sort of front of house the the face you know, when Daniel him was in the in the back, you know, making the the magic in the kitchen and and there was something about the hospitality there.

01:31:20:01 - 01:31:49:19
Simon
And he wrote this book on reasonable hospitality, which is about creating moments that are special for people and going above and beyond and over delivering to make someone feel important, special looked after and. It's the art of doing that and extending that are that are obviously something that I think is very important in hospitality. But that art go beyond hospitality.

01:31:49:19 - 01:32:16:19
Simon
That should be us as humans in everyday life, trying to do something for other people that make them feel special, felt, heard, look at whatever it is, you know, And so this the the principle of unreasonable hospitality was rooted in the hospitality industry, I feel like can take us out into the into the world. You know, it's about doing something nice for someone else with no nothing to gain.

01:32:16:21 - 01:32:25:04
Simon
And and the one thing and the one reason you're doing it is to make their day better, you know, exactly is better. And I love.

01:32:25:04 - 01:32:50:15
Jessie
That. That, that reminds, you know, when when you have the bug, you have the bug and it's either in you or it's not. And I interviewed Heather Ransom and she heard her. What she says is I get to throw a party for people every day. So if you're if you're in her section and you're, you know, you know, she's waiting she's waiting on you, she her her philosophy is I get to throw you a party.

01:32:50:17 - 01:33:04:07
Jessie
Well, how can I make this a great experience for you And I? I just that just blew me away. It's so interesting to me. And that's where, you know, you're in the right. You know, you're doing the right thing for you.

01:33:04:11 - 01:33:25:10
Simon
Yeah, I love that philosophy, too. I get to throw a party for all these people every day. I mean, it's like that's like bringing that, you know, bringing that that that attitude to what you do. You know, not every day is going to be perfect and not every day is going to be enjoyable. But just at least thinking about life in those in those terms.

01:33:25:12 - 01:33:38:10
Simon
So those would be that that I guess, the business side of things or the inspirational book that I least thinking of at this particular moment in time.

01:33:38:10 - 01:33:41:08
Jessie
Yeah, that's good.

01:33:41:10 - 01:33:45:09
Jessie
So do you have you have other ones you want to mention?

01:33:45:11 - 01:33:52:19
Simon
No, I was I was just going to talk about the idea of finding something fulfilling outside of work too, I think is really.

01:33:52:22 - 01:33:53:09
Jessie
Yeah, for.

01:33:53:09 - 01:34:27:11
Simon
Sure. You know, we define ourselves through what we do fast lunch, we tie far too much for our identity to our career paths. And there is more to the world than that so much. And it's that's just my advice, you know, that, you know, it's defined as things that define you, I mean, or find or make sure you're not defined by your work, but or if you like to be defined by something, find things that define you outside of work.

01:34:27:13 - 01:34:36:13
Jessie
Yeah, No. 100%. I need to do I need to be better about that. But when you're a startup, it's that's just you just do what you got to do.

01:34:36:15 - 01:34:45:03
Simon
Well, and I've been a startup and so I'm with you. You have focus of my biceps. Exactly.

01:34:45:05 - 01:34:56:00
Jessie
My wife's favorite word to me. Focus. I need you to focus. Yeah. I'm a high visionary. Like, ridiculous off the charts, like, so it's hard for me to focus.

01:34:56:02 - 01:35:01:10
Simon
Yeah. And understood. And I understand that personality. Yeah.

01:35:01:12 - 01:35:03:03
Jessie
It's funny.

01:35:03:04 - 01:35:04:12
Simon
Yeah, it's good.

01:35:04:14 - 01:35:24:13
Jessie
Yeah. So, do you have any pain points in the industry that you want to kind of talk about that I don't know if you've, you've, you've had or overcome or if you're facing anything at the current moment. I know that your brand is, you know, through it from former now so you kind of have a really nice team to kind of help navigate all those pain points.

01:35:24:13 - 01:35:27:14
Jessie
But is there anything that kind of comes to mind that you'd like to share?

01:35:27:15 - 01:35:37:23
Simon
I mean, when it came to being an entrepreneur and, you know, you know, and being a part of a startup, that there were there were 100 pain points.

01:35:38:01 - 01:36:15:22
Simon
Yeah. You know, like, I mean, it's like that endless and, and it's absurdly hard to, you know, because it's also personal when you're a startup, it's you, you know, if someone does something that might just be business to them is actually attacking you personally. So I lived through a lot of pain points as an entrepreneur and, and trying to create a thick skin to not take things personally took me years, you know, it took me years but that's the thing that you have to prepare for.

01:36:16:03 - 01:36:45:06
Simon
And in a startup is to not take things personally, which is a lot harder than when, like you say, you know, when you're in a in a job and you have a team and, and that that that the challenge there is is creating inspiration and motivation so that everyone feels like they're traveling on the same road as you to create something and making sure that work is as enjoyable and as it can be.

01:36:45:08 - 01:37:06:00
Simon
And you want to make sure people are productive so that they feel satisfied with their work. You know, the more people are doing it's not about working hard, but you achievements. You want people to be getting things, getting things done. So I think that there's like continual pain points throughout the entire process and they're never going to end.

01:37:06:05 - 01:37:38:08
Simon
Yeah, it's never sailing is always challenging and so it's how can you deal with those challenges at an emotional level and have not always been good at that. That's the work that I try to do on myself, is to not take things personally, to understand that again, all of those different perspectives coming, coming in from different places in this world, you know, there's there's that that's the pain points from an entrepreneur where if I would think about the industry because there's so much we need in this industry.

01:37:38:08 - 01:37:56:03
Simon
Yeah I mean health insurance can we we start there you know if you're in the in the hospitality industry and working in restaurants and bars and there are some places that can afford to do it. But the the entire financial structure, you know, some people might get annoyed at me saying this, but it's not meant personally to anybody in this situation.

01:37:56:05 - 01:38:22:19
Simon
The entire financial structure of the hospitality industry is made is has been created to put the customer first. Right. And go for it. And the best people in the industry are the ones that just do that naturally instinctually and do it and get pleasure from making someone's day better. Like we talked about earlier, your friend creates a party every day for everybody, right?

01:38:22:21 - 01:38:50:11
Simon
But on the flip side, there's a system in place that doesn't support everybody in that structure. So the people working in it supporting people, but they're not supported throughout. And it's a it's structured. So it's very difficult to do that. So business owners actually are in a situation where it's very hard for them to actually do that and remain open, you know, So it's not you know, I don't blame anybody for this.

01:38:50:17 - 01:39:13:02
Simon
This the the the problems that our industry has, you know, the lack of care and the lack of security and all of those different things, it's the nature of how the industry has been structured over the years. And changing it is it can't happen overnight. Is going to be like lots of tiny little changes. So I say to the pain point for the industry is people that work within it.

01:39:13:04 - 01:39:36:19
Simon
You know who you want to create sustainability for them so that they stay, you know, and it can become more of a career. It becomes a career often for business owners and there are larger corporations, but that is a very top of the triangle. But this is an industry that employs millions of people and provides the cultural relevance of, of of of, of nations.

01:39:36:19 - 01:39:39:02
Simon
You know, food, eating, drinking, cities.

01:39:39:04 - 01:39:42:06
Jessie
Communities. Absolutely. 100%.

01:39:42:08 - 01:39:55:09
Simon
It's the glue is it is so much and so so you know, looking after it the best we can, looking after the people in it, the best we can. And if you're not from this industry and you go to restaurants, treat everybody in them with the utmost of respect.

01:39:55:09 - 01:39:55:22
Jessie
And tip.

01:39:56:01 - 01:39:58:00
Simon
That is that tip.

01:39:58:01 - 01:40:02:01
Jessie
That cash, cash, cash.

01:40:02:03 - 01:40:18:11
Simon
That I know around with a little bit that is, you know, like on a podcast is like this. Such a deep conversation. Your questions are deep. And I'm like, they can't be kind of met with simple answers but a little ramble to hopefully share some sentiment and some thoughts. I hope that help.

01:40:18:12 - 01:40:19:06
Jessie
Absolutely.

01:40:19:06 - 01:40:41:07
Jessie
I mean, we hospitality and and that side of the business is really a part of, you know, my direction in my company. And So I love talking about that piece of it. You know, I've been lucky enough to have a couple of people that were are you know, have created concepts and, you know, opened restaurants and and understand those pain points 100%.

01:40:41:07 - 01:41:09:17
Jessie
You know, it's the world that we live in, post-COVID has been a struggle for restaurants because people are like, I'm going to go get a degree or I'm going to I'm not doing this anymore. People are rude, people are not nice. You know, whatever the case may be, it's just a huge challenge. I think our industry throughout the the variant tiers that we live in is struggling, you know, with the change, the change of everything happening.

01:41:09:19 - 01:41:26:23
Simon
And yet there's still so many people out there just passionate about creating new ideas, new concepts, new dishes, new cocktails in a in a figuring out new playlists to create new atmospheres and whatever other attentions and detail that like permeate throughout this.

01:41:26:23 - 01:41:30:13
Jessie
Yeah F and be innovation baby.

01:41:30:15 - 01:41:32:14
Jessie
Which is what I do.

01:41:32:16 - 01:41:37:13
Simon
Yeah exactly. So all these things that a customer takes for granted are happening for them in that moment.

01:41:37:13 - 01:41:41:07
Jessie
100%. Yeah, No, 100%. It takes a team.

01:41:41:09 - 01:41:46:22
Simon
By the way. We want them to take them for granted. They're not if they noticed, we might not have done our job properly, you know?

01:41:47:04 - 01:42:11:23
Jessie
Yeah, well, so the last kind of question here is what is your outlook in our industry? Is there you know anything about, you know, your your I mean, maybe it's ginger or is there some trend that you're seeing in the industry that is kind of new to you or, you know, what, what would you like to, to talk about.

01:42:12:01 - 01:42:35:20
Simon
The I actually, you know, we talked about some of the pain points, but I the positive our industry right now is it's becoming so much more open minded. Yeah. And that journey is happening, you know, whether it's people taking a stance and saying all people are welcome in our restaurant, you know, and, and making everyone feel welcome, which is really important.

01:42:35:20 - 01:42:55:22
Simon
Right. You want the if a restaurant in a bar is not a safe space, then why what is right? This is hospitality. And so there's been lots of energy there. The the the idea that you can have balance, you know, that you don't have to drink all night but that you know, and that has been addressed is amazing.

01:42:56:03 - 01:43:15:10
Simon
You know, the complex world of non alcoholics, you know, in nonalcoholic drinks is really interesting to me because it's not just someone who abstains. It's also someone that doesn't want to might want to be out for four or 5 hours and doesn't want to drink consistently for 5 hours.

01:43:15:16 - 01:43:19:13
Jessie
Because we can't anymore.

01:43:19:15 - 01:43:52:04
Simon
If there's there's to. But you know, but now there's have a break and that doesn't have to impede upon your experience of hospitality. You don't have to feel unwelcome in that moment. You can feel welcomed by the choices that are now on offer that are almost everywhere, which is which is fantastic. So there's so many so many there's so much evolution happening within hospitality right now to, to, to refine it and fine tune.

01:43:52:05 - 01:44:14:13
Simon
So, you know, the fact that it's taken this long to effect the fact it in those areas is probably more shocking to me. But the fact that is happening is the most positive thing for me as well. You know, seeing how that's evolving and seeing how these these spaces can, you know, not alienate people but actually make more and more people feel welcomed.

01:44:14:15 - 01:44:42:21
Simon
And so it's not about who you are or what you drink or any of those things. It's about, do you like this space and the environment that we're creating for you? Come on. And you know, and so I, I feel the outlook of our industry is is is great. I mean the last ten years I've seen some of the most incredible innovation or more, you know, crazy spirits, more entrepreneurs, you know, more fancy barrels of bourbon.

01:44:42:21 - 01:45:01:22
Simon
Yeah, you name it. It's happening right now. Yeah. It's really it is really exciting. You know, bartenders are going I'm going to make this in the movie machine in a rotovap and it's going to blow your mind and we're going to serve it on a mountain that puff smoke or someone going, You know what? I'm going to do negronis in my dive bar?

01:45:02:00 - 01:45:03:23
Jessie
And it's yeah.

01:45:04:01 - 01:45:27:07
Simon
We level, it's improving, you know, and offering all of these different choices. So I've never been more excited. I mean, I can't keep up with the innovation. Quite frankly, seeing what I see out there now is so exciting. Seeing the crazy minds and and mad scientists and and hospitality kings and queens out there is just like, remarkable to me.

01:45:27:07 - 01:45:53:02
Simon
So, yeah, the outlook for this industry is is amazing. Quite frankly. I you know we we got the biggest blow with COVID and talk about resilience you know we're coming back stronger. And I know it's hard because we're not the landlords all the time, but in terms of creatives, we are the creatives. Yeah, and I love this industry right now.

01:45:53:04 - 01:45:53:23
Jessie
I'm with.

01:45:53:23 - 01:45:55:11
Simon
You.

01:45:55:13 - 01:46:15:06
Jessie
You know, that's one of the reasons I dove in. You know, you listen to people say, well, well, what am I supposed to do with my life? Like, what do you, you know, do what you're passionate about? Like, well, I don't I don't know how to translate that into something because I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I've always been I grew up in an entrepreneurial, you know, environment with my mom and dad, each owning their own business.

01:46:15:06 - 01:46:35:22
Jessie
And so it's just it's just a part of who who you know, who I am. My grandfather was an entrepreneur and all that kind of thing. And so I just didn't know what to do because I've I can't tell you how many restaurant concepts I've created, business plans I've written, you know, it just wasn't the right thing. And so when when I reflected, I'm like, what do you love?

01:46:35:22 - 01:46:59:07
Jessie
Food and beverage, innovation. And then I'm like, This is the greatest time to dig in and really roll up your sleeves and get involved in the industry because there's just so much explosion going on. And and obviously my background is beverage, you know, but food too. I mean, food and beverage, you can't have one without the other or I don't want to.

01:46:59:09 - 01:47:09:22
Jessie
I mean, obviously you do, but I mean that the combination of that plus the experience in these restaurants is it's the best, you know, for me. And so, you know, I.

01:47:09:22 - 01:47:11:20
Simon
Love that.

01:47:11:22 - 01:47:12:22
Jessie
Being a part of that is that.

01:47:12:22 - 01:47:14:19
Simon
Well said. So.

01:47:14:21 - 01:47:34:10
Jessie
Well, thank you. But it's true. It's that's that's the core of, you know, what I really believe in. And you know why I'm doing what I'm doing. So it is exciting. I mean, in our industry kind of needed it, right? you got to go.

01:47:34:12 - 01:47:36:10
Simon
They're arriving. So we.

01:47:36:11 - 01:47:38:02
Jessie
Okay. Yeah, we we.

01:47:38:02 - 01:47:46:19
Jessie
Could wrap up. The last question is just your passions, and then we'll wrap up. What do you like to do outside of work?

01:47:46:20 - 01:48:17:07
Simon
As boring as it is, travel is travel and yeah, you know, it just because it's about people, it's about hospitality industry. It's it's just so all of different walks of life. I love it so much. Meeting new people, learning new things. Don't I don't, I don't know where I learn as much as when I travel. Yeah. I don't know when I interact with people.

01:48:17:07 - 01:48:51:20
Simon
Is that a difference to me as much in hear their opinions and and stories. I love it you know or just the culture of walking into a restaurant or bar or trying the street food and all of those things. And so all of them are, you know, travel is, you know, or the views that you might get. So it is boring to say, but I get so much from I, I the moment you walk off an airplane and you smell an air that you've never smelled before, that is magic to me.

01:48:51:23 - 01:49:02:01
Jessie
I 100% agree with you. We try to travel a couple of times a year to different places around the world, if we can. So we're right there with you. I love it.

01:49:02:03 - 01:49:23:21
Simon
And I'm inspired by the sort of, you know, the boarding, you know, the you know, like, you know, like the just like take the backroads, take the detours. That style you know or, you know, Joe Strummer from The Clash would land in a city and the band would get in the limos and go to the Four Seasons. And, you know, and chill out.

01:49:23:21 - 01:49:47:09
Simon
And he would go to a cab driver and say, Take me to your neighborhood. Well, newspaper. Do you read Well, what cafe do you have your breakfast in? Can you take me? You know, like I'm going to you know, I'll pay, keep the meter running and and and go see another part of the world rather than just go to where the tourists might go, you know, just like find something out about the world and about the people.

01:49:47:09 - 01:49:49:09
Simon
And I kind of like that about travel.

01:49:49:13 - 01:50:11:10
Jessie
Yeah, I like that, too. I love that. It just sometimes you don't have enough time to kind of do it all. You know, if you just have a couple days in a city. But that's really how you get to to the culture, you know, of that environment and of, you know, the people, which is the whole part of traveling.

01:50:11:10 - 01:50:15:17
Jessie
Right? Is that is ingrained in yourself into that?

01:50:15:19 - 01:50:41:07
Simon
Yeah, I wish I could do it more. That's what I will say. And, you know, so thanks for asking. Well, passion, it's not really boring, just that boring. It's just people a lot of people will say it, you know, and it is mine. And of course, I love live music. That's my meditation, you know. So yeah, I, I got I can't meditate, that's for sure.

01:50:41:12 - 01:50:52:09
Simon
But what about when I'm, when, when I'm in a in a crowd and the music is touching me. I don't want to pull out my phone. I don't want to I'm not distracted by anything that I. But I'm feeling that that music.

01:50:52:09 - 01:50:56:12
Jessie
Yeah, that is cool. Well, you're in the right city.

01:50:56:14 - 01:50:59:17
Simon
Yes.

01:50:59:18 - 01:51:21:08
Jessie
this is. This has been so much fun. Simon, I adore you. This has been a wonderful experience to have some on one time with you and kind of learn about you, but learn about, you know, the product and the process of how you created it and you created it for the bartending you really did, which is fascinating to me.

01:51:21:08 - 01:51:46:09
Jessie
I didn't know that story. And so, you know, it all makes sense now. Writes the part Bartenders decided that it really had a purpose of being of helping bartenders with, you know, So, you know, especially if you're in a high volume environment, you just need a quick make a as many cocktails as you can. That's that's ten drinks right there, you know, eight or ten drinks, which is really, really smart.

01:51:46:09 - 01:51:55:16
Jessie
I love that. I love that thought process and and where it came from and and you know what you're doing. So congratulations.

01:51:55:18 - 01:52:00:16
Simon
That's great. Thank you so much. And thanks for inviting me on and great chatting. I really enjoyed it.

01:52:00:17 - 01:52:22:03
Jessie
Yeah, thank you. Me too. Me too. I wish you all the success that comes in your, you know, next phase. And I can't wait to see you in, in, in eight in April. So maybe, maybe, maybe we could do some kind of ginger fun, if you like.

01:52:22:03 - 01:52:23:04
Simon
Of.

01:52:23:06 - 01:52:25:07
Jessie
The experiment. A little.

01:52:25:09 - 01:52:26:22
Simon
Of that. Okay.

01:52:27:00 - 01:52:27:16
Jessie
Awesome.

01:52:27:18 - 01:52:29:12
Simon
Already, but. Okay.

01:52:29:13 - 01:52:30:22
Jessie
Cool. Bye.

01:52:31:00 - 01:52:32:15
Simon
Thanksgiving.

01:52:32:17 - 01:52:41:05
Jessie
Tune in next Thursday and have a great week. This week's episode was produced by Fedora J Productions and.