2023 & 2024 Round Table Discussion with Industry Experts

Hello everyone and Happy New Year! In my last podcast release, I spoke about the changes in 2024.

The first episode is considered a "Special Weekly Release". I spent time with experts in our industry in a roundtable format. They each chose a question to share with startup brand owners such as the CEOs and brand owners I have interviewed throughout the year.

We are all big supporters and want to help see new brands succeed. These panelists are the experts, and each has some great advice as we start the new year.

The Panelists & their Questions are:

Brian Rosen, Chairman of Growth Beverage
#1. Did you, your team, or even the beverage industry overcome any significant challenges this year?  It could be supply chain related, packaging, etc... 

Gary Schneidkraut, VP of Business Development, Wine + Spirits of Protis Global
#2. Did you have any key revelations that arose from your 2023 company reflections? 

Matt Giese, COO of Funny Water
#3. Were there any unexpected developments that diverged from what you thought were your anticipated outcomes?

Taylor Foxman, Founder and CEO of The Industry Collective
#4. What valuable insight did you gain in 2023, and how can it inform and benefit your strategies in 2024? 

Ben Salisbury, President & Founder, of Salisbury Creative Group, & Wine Sales Stimulator
#5. What does the adult beverage industry need to stop doing immediately, in your opinion?

Ben Salisbury's Advice:
Read Books to Understand How Products are Sold & How People Buy
Daniel Pink How to Sell is Human
Donald Miller Build

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!! Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Transcript

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:12:18
Speaker 1
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessie, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass.

00:00:12:20 - 00:00:20:11
Speaker 1
Hello, everyone, and Happy New Year. My last podcast release, I spoke about the changes in 2020 for.

00:00:20:11 - 00:00:23:20
Speaker 1
This first episode is considered a special weekly release.

00:00:23:20 - 00:00:35:12
Speaker 1
I was able to spend time with experts in our industry in a roundtable format. They each chose their own question of choice to share with the startup brand owners, such as the CEOs.

00:00:35:12 - 00:00:38:23
Speaker 1
And brand owners I've interviewed throughout the year.

00:00:38:23 - 00:00:48:15
Speaker 1
We are all big supporters and want to see new brands succeed. These panelists are experts and each have some great advice.

00:00:48:15 - 00:00:50:14
Speaker 1
As we start out the new year.

00:00:51:01 - 00:01:02:09
Speaker 1
If any of you listening are looking to start a new brand or be a part of the beverage industry, don't do it without listening to this podcast because there is amazing content for you.

00:01:02:09 - 00:01:04:21
Speaker 1
From these five. Amazing.

00:01:04:21 - 00:01:05:15
Speaker 1
Panelist.

00:01:05:15 - 00:01:13:06
Speaker 1
The panelists are. Brian Rosen. Chairman Growth Beverage. Gary Schneider. Group VP of Business Development. Wine and Spirits.

00:01:13:06 - 00:01:21:17
Speaker 1
Of protest Global. Matt Gaetz, CEO of Funny Water, and Taylor Foxman, founder and CEO of the Industry Collective.

00:01:22:04 - 00:01:27:12
Speaker 1
Last, but certainly not least, is Ben Salisbury, president and founder of Salisbury Creative Group.

00:01:27:21 - 00:01:30:03
Speaker 1
And the wine sales simulator.

00:01:30:03 - 00:01:33:03
Speaker 1
Get ready, York, as we jump right into the question.

00:01:33:03 - 00:01:35:03
Speaker 1
I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

00:01:35:03 - 00:01:40:03
Speaker 1
Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes.

00:01:40:04 - 00:01:49:13
Speaker 1
Brian, did you or your team or even the beverage industry overcome any significant challenges this year? It could be supply chain rate related packaging, etc..

00:01:49:13 - 00:02:14:07
Speaker 1
I think, Jesse, the one thing that we saw that was super interesting this year, that is I wouldn't call it a new phenomenon, but it really was front and center as investors in the capital space and in the brand space. It used to be a time, not not so recent past, frankly, that you you could raise money to grow your top line revenue for brands and then exit out.

00:02:14:09 - 00:02:35:08
Speaker 1
Now, brands need to run as operating businesses and that is a new, relatively new phenomena. In the last couple of years that was kind of punctuated this past year. You've got a softening of demand from the consumer. You've got excess supply on the shelf. And so these brands and you've got people like me who have hundreds of millions of dollars to give out.

00:02:35:10 - 00:02:59:04
Speaker 1
I'm not giving out capital right now. So right now I mean, in the rest of the year, you have to have a viable business. You have to have a functioning business. You have to understand that you cannot raise your way to profitability. So the biggest fundamental shift, Jesse, that I saw this year was that brand creators, brand owners, brand founders really had to be operators.

00:02:59:06 - 00:03:19:09
Speaker 1
You can't just be a marketer. You can't just be a distiller. You got to be an operator. And the brands that are operators are the ones that will will make it over the hump of New Year's if they continue on through the first quarter, etc., of 2024. And the ones that are trying to raise their way to profitability that would say, you know, will be profitable in 2026, 27.

00:03:19:15 - 00:03:31:11
Speaker 1
They're having a real tough time as brands now and that is a we started investing in brands in 2015. That was not the case. You can raise your way to profitability and now you have to operate your way to profitability.

00:03:31:11 - 00:03:33:19
Speaker 1
Interesting. Does anybody want to come?

00:03:33:19 - 00:04:02:14
Speaker 1
I'll make a quick comment on that because I am an operator. So I run a brand, a startup brand, right? And you're exactly right, Brian. It's the capital market is extremely tight and I don't get as involved on that side of it. I let the the owners and founders work on that. But you know, from an operational standpoint, it yeah, people aren't our companies aren't throwing money at you just to magically make this work.

00:04:02:14 - 00:04:14:22
Speaker 1
It's you've got to and there's there is a lot of challenges and I'll certainly get to that in mind. But I absolutely agree with you Brian you are spot on and it feels very different than it has in the past years. There's no question about it.

00:04:15:00 - 00:04:40:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, Matt and I'll and I'll share one thing more is that we we're going to see a thinning of the herd. We are going to see brands that don't they can't raise the capital really struggle in 2024 because if you think about and I talk about it all the time online, but if you think about the consumer slowing down the shelf, not getting any bigger, right.

00:04:40:04 - 00:05:13:01
Speaker 2
So there's not a lot of room for new brands and a lot a lot of brands are getting pulled off the shelf. See, all that combined with nothing is getting cheaper. You mentioned, Jesse earlier, supply chain logistics, legal accounting, TB compliance, route to market delivery options, sales options like Bev Strat or others. There are it's expensive to be a brand and if you don't have the capital, you can't cut your way to profitability because you're cutting the one thing that really matters, the two things that matter, the most and brands, which is marketing and sales.

00:05:13:03 - 00:05:35:07
Speaker 2
So if you cut those, then you're not going to be a brand. So what do you cut? You can't cut accounting. Maybe you can outsource that. You can't cut leadership because one who stewards the brand. Right, guys? So this is unprecedented times. And what we are seeing right now as a private equity firm are great deals very cheaply.

00:05:35:09 - 00:05:47:18
Speaker 2
We're seeing founders who are willing to give away the bathwater and the baby just to stay, just to keep oxygen on the brand. So these are unprecedented times. Scary, perhaps opportunistic 100%.

00:05:47:18 - 00:05:52:22
Speaker 1
Es ist genau die Eierschale.

00:05:53:00 - 00:05:59:05
Speaker 2
Die die Area for Brian so nett.

00:05:59:05 - 00:06:22:17
Speaker 1
What I was just saying is that these are unprecedented times and we are seeing deals that we have never seen before come to our level. And the brand owners are needing to either chase survival or get out and they can't cut their way out. Right. You can't because marketing and sales are really where it's at. So, you know, we're seeing deals, trade at low multiples.

00:06:22:17 - 00:06:41:21
Speaker 1
What was a 15 multiple is now a six multiple. We're seeing us at invest by being able to write deals that are very onerous, not that vulture ask, but onerous in the sense that we want a bigger piece of the company. We're going to invest in. And that's that's going to play out throughout 2024, I think.

00:06:41:21 - 00:06:45:11
Speaker 1
I it. yeah. Go for it. Government.

00:06:45:15 - 00:06:50:21
Speaker 2
No, I'll shut up because I've been talking all this time. So you're on your own.

00:06:50:23 - 00:07:13:10
Speaker 1
I just had one second thing, which is I agree with everyone. I think it's. It seems pretty impossible at this point unless you, you know, you've exited other things prior. You know, your high net worth just coming in the space. I'll just be honest. Like without having funding of your own to launch and kind of take it to the next level, it's pretty much impossible is not necessarily like a sign of defeat.

00:07:13:11 - 00:07:38:22
Speaker 1
Like, a lot of people come to me and they're like, I have to raise money and like, so do celebrities. So, so does everyone. I mean, everyone's raising money all the time. And the rationale, right, is not necessarily like you're doing a bad job of what you're doing. It's just it's so competitive that to do that, just the nuts and bolts of this business like to get on a shelf to hire the right people, like just to generally get brand awareness at a very minimal level.

00:07:38:22 - 00:07:55:16
Speaker 1
Like you need to spend money in order to do those things. And so I guess my advice is always like, look like don't look at it as a negative. Just realize that like everyone is in the same boat. And the rationale is because the stakes have never been higher, there have never been more brands in market and it's more competitive.

00:07:55:16 - 00:08:11:23
Speaker 1
So that's just the nature of the beast, you know? And so it is what it is. It's not great. But but I think everyone, you know, regardless of growth, is everyone's pretty much in the same boat, at least on the CPG side from what I see. Like everyone needs money as soon as they finish a raise, they're looking at the next raise.

00:08:11:23 - 00:08:14:16
Speaker 1
And so, you know, it is what it is, but.

00:08:14:16 - 00:08:34:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a great point. I always tell people that that will ask me like, Jeez, well, what does it cost to get into the beverage space? Or I've never done this before, but I've got this great tequila seltzer and I think this is going to be the next great thing. And I always tell them, if you don't have a minimum of 3 million to get this thing up and running, I said, You're going to struggle and you're you're exactly right.

00:08:34:13 - 00:08:55:01
Speaker 1
Where as soon as you finish a round, you've got to be planning for that next round, that next race, because it is from an operational standpoint, things haven't gotten cheaper yet. We still have to produce product and you don't get to just produce on demand. You've got to produce, you've got to buy the cans, you've got to buy everything.

00:08:55:03 - 00:09:14:03
Speaker 1
And you may lay out three, four or five, $600,000 in one week and it's going to take you time to recoup that. And if you're not ready to absorb that, you you're going to be in some in a tough spot. Then if you from that to Brian's point with the sales and the marketing, you, that's the kiss of death.

00:09:14:03 - 00:09:36:00
Speaker 1
If you cut those back, you're you're you're absolutely dead in the water. Well, those aren't cheap either. Marketing is is a really expensive thing. And sales certainly if you want talent, you can go the route of some of these companies where you're a shared brand or your brand is is using a shared sales team. So that's a model.

00:09:36:00 - 00:10:00:16
Speaker 1
But the the wholesalers, the model is very, very different. I kind of joke that we've broken our industry, you know, I, me included, I'm another brand in this crazy space and you've got to do everything right and you've got to spend like drunken sailors to try to stay relevant with the wholesalers and the retailers and the consumers all at same time.

00:10:00:16 - 00:10:04:17
Speaker 1
that was good. That was good. And it. Does anyone else have any other.

00:10:04:17 - 00:10:06:09
Speaker 1
Comment on this topic.

00:10:06:09 - 00:10:07:09
Speaker 1
I guess.

00:10:07:09 - 00:10:30:21
Speaker 1
For me as a someone that's been, you know, interviewing a lot of the these folks throughout the past year is, you know, what what little things can they do to get started? There's a lot of brands, obviously, that don't aren't going to be able to raise 3 million to just start a brand. But they might be able to start, you know, with 100,000 and have an idea and get going.

00:10:30:21 - 00:10:56:02
Speaker 1
I interviewed Unicorn Distillery and what they did and he's such a processor. I had to ask them, are you are you German? Because he was so very but he was from the industry and he knew exactly what it he needed to do from an event process to a launching at an event to social media to these certain segments and different, you know, things that he needed to do.

00:10:56:02 - 00:10:58:20
Speaker 1
And I'm wondering if that's something that people are missing on.

00:10:58:20 - 00:11:00:10
Speaker 1
Are we ready to go to the next question?

00:11:00:10 - 00:11:03:01
Speaker 1
All right, let's do it, Gary.

00:11:03:14 - 00:11:04:09
Speaker 1
Yes.

00:11:05:01 - 00:11:10:15
Speaker 1
Did you have any key revelations that arose from your 2023 company? Reflections.

00:11:10:15 - 00:11:40:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as the previous discussion was about costs and hiring, the pandemic led to a massive spike in growth for the beverage industry. And so reacting to the amazing amount of business suppliers and brands of all sizes went on hiring spree to grow their teams and found themselves with an overly robust org chart. Sales, Marketing, Arts.

00:11:40:04 - 00:12:22:22
Speaker 1
Finance and even internal talent acquisition teams had to keep up. But what companies didn't anticipate was that 2023 was going to bring inflation, a looming recession, and, you know, a term that I've been using a lot post pandemic normalization, the record growth had to end at some point. And while revenue today is generally stronger than ever before, the growth slowed and so did the need for such large teams, which led to layoffs and reorganization, especially, I mean, Q4 we've been hearing in wine, beer and spirits the layoffs.

00:12:23:00 - 00:13:15:03
Speaker 1
It revealed that the hiring that was done, it was really abundant but not necessarily strategic. And if you ask any organization what their most important assets are, I think people will be the number one or number two answer always. So if hiring is so crucial to a brand's success, why is it being done so haphazardly? I think it's extremely important for organizations to focus on, again, using that buzzword strategic hiring and if your team is if your internal team is not equipped or aligned on interview skills or what you truly gather from talent, you're likely to damage your hiring brand and lose the best candidates to your competition.

00:13:15:04 - 00:13:49:05
Speaker 1
So I think that two things are absolutely booming and companies just, you know, hired, you know, through the roof. And 23, unfortunately, there's been a very, you know, a very prevalent trend of layoffs. And I think 2024 is going to sort of carry over the lesson that companies have learned that you need to be strategic in your hiring and bringing on the right people.

00:13:49:07 - 00:14:00:21
Speaker 1
So, I mean, that's at least what I've Chuck coming into 23, riding the high of, you know, the previous few years and then seeing what's unfolded the past 12 months.

00:14:00:21 - 00:14:19:11
Speaker 1
The area that I have to agree with you. It's you feel like you're going to solve all your problems by adding a lot of bodies to your team, and that gets expensive. Again, what we've already been talking about, but you have to be as strategic as you can because you also have to look at the longevity of it when you're in startup mode and you're.

00:14:19:11 - 00:14:39:20
Speaker 1
Writing some of those big hundred thousand dollars checks for a production run. Let's say if you've got 15 employees that you weren't quite budgeting correctly for, you could end up having to let some of them go a few months after you just brought them on. So you've got to be very careful because you're you're dealing with people. But it it can be a tricky game.

00:14:39:20 - 00:14:56:09
Speaker 1
I know personally. I have built out models and change them probably 15 different times in a very short span where here's my goal. This is what the org charts are going to look like. And then we're we had to kind of pivot over here. Now it's going to be this and then, wait, now it's going to be this.

00:14:56:09 - 00:15:05:04
Speaker 1
And there's it ebbs and flows constantly where you've got to be as strategic as you possibly can. I also think you have to be kind of lucky to.

00:15:05:04 - 00:15:33:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, that I think that that's a good point. I mean, luck plays into everything, but if you can sort of go into your game plan and execute with a strategy, a plan. Knowing what gaps need to be filled and, you know, I'm glad you brought up longevity because it's not just budgetary. It's also, I think, bringing on.

00:15:33:16 - 00:16:00:21
Speaker 1
Not just a large amount of people, but those who align with the company's values. Growth trajectory, its borderline future proofing for your company, making sure, especially at that smaller stage of a company, that your hires are the people that are going to be with you and help you grow over the next three, five plus years. Right. Yeah, you're exactly right, Gary.

00:16:00:21 - 00:16:23:07
Speaker 1
Agree with what he's saying in terms of this lack of strategy around putting up like, let's say, a sales team on the field. If you look at job ads from ten, 15 years ago and you were in a coma for the last decade and you looked at them today, you wouldn't see a whole lot of difference, not in the org chart, not in the requirements for the roles.

00:16:23:09 - 00:16:48:10
Speaker 1
Here's a good example. In the modern competitive environment, where there's so many brands and so few distributors, you don't need as many high paying people to manage distributors as you used to. What you need are more feet on the street, more people actually selling. But yet look at the average organization in our industry and their chart looks just like it did, you know, ten, 15 years ago.

00:16:48:10 - 00:17:01:12
Speaker 1
So it's a total lack of strategy and adjustment. And this is just part of a long list of things where our industry falls behind other industries in terms of, you know, putting a team on the field and being more strategic about it.

00:17:01:12 - 00:17:08:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. And Ben, an observation that I've noticed over the past year, year and a half.

00:17:08:10 - 00:17:42:20
Speaker 1
If you used to look at a job board or job postings, it was for entry junior level roles, sometimes a mid-level role. Your seen companies of, you know, emerging brand size all the way to enterprise posting vice president roles on LinkedIn and a I don't know maybe some of the larger companies have the capacity internally to sift through the you know, 4000 applications you get in the 9 hours it's been posted.

00:17:42:22 - 00:18:11:12
Speaker 1
But I also believe that job posting, if that's your way of trying to cut costs, it's not the way to do it. You know, job posts, you're maybe going to get exposure to 30% of the talent landscape and how much of that 30% is really qualified and then how many of those qualified people are fits for the value and, you know, culture of the organization?

00:18:12:21 - 00:18:36:17
Speaker 1
And you're making those hires because I don't know if it's convenient, it's inexpensive. You think that by blasting it on a website like LinkedIn or indeed you're going to find the best people? But I do think that there's got to be I mean, even just basic blocking and tackling when finding the right people and filling in the needs that you truly have.

00:18:36:17 - 00:18:59:16
Speaker 1
We could go on and on about the lack of skills around assessing talent and finding talent. Yeah, because it's seriously lacking in our industry. You know, the very best people are not actively looking for jobs. They have to be recruited. The job ads are very, very ineffective. They make a lot more work for the recruiter and the hiring manager, and they're just not very effective.

00:18:59:18 - 00:19:03:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I think these are great points you make.

00:19:03:05 - 00:19:25:12
Speaker 1
So I do have one comment I wanted to make. Is that about the hiring and about the people? And I hope I didn't miss the boat. There is what the pandemic showed all of the distributors is that you can do more with less people and they became a lot more profitable. And that and we all have mutual friends in the e-commerce platforms.

00:19:25:14 - 00:19:49:11
Speaker 1
It what it did was it said, Hey, we're going to sell you the same amount of goods, if not more, and we're going to do it all online. We're going to force you to go to our our platform, whether it's limited band or whether it's e proof or whether it's electronics, Southern or electronic R&D, C, whatever it is they have learned to do to make a lot more money with a lot less bodies.

00:19:49:13 - 00:20:15:20
Speaker 1
Conversely, who is getting hosed? The independent brand right. The independent brand is that is the and this is kind of this has been my my screaming for a decade is the independent brand is getting totally hosed because 90% of the sales from southern come from 10% of the book. But they need 100% of the book to have a breadth of selection to show other people that they're southern.

00:20:15:22 - 00:20:39:14
Speaker 1
Right. So so I think either Ben said it or Gary or Maddock can't recall. But the shared service model, some kind of sales model where you get in front of the retailer and or the on premise account and you say, here is the story of my brand, because vanilla and I don't no one gives a shit if it's the Rock or Kevin Hart or Michael Jordan or Wiz Khalifa, right?

00:20:39:19 - 00:21:03:07
Speaker 1
People don't necessarily care. But what they do care about is the story of the brand that the retailer or the bartender can then go sell to their audience. Right? So when I say when you look at Gary, you're talking about it hiring salespeople. I would only add higher storytellers that can sell instead of salespeople, They can storyteller. That's that's the only point to differentiation.

00:21:03:07 - 00:21:09:20
Speaker 1
The small independent brand read under 100,000 cases can ever have to make headway in the marketplace.

00:21:09:20 - 00:21:33:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I think that that's a very good point. You know, I had spent seven years at the largest distributor in metro New York, and we used to I loved telling stories, building brands, putting together, you know, four bottles to bring into a particular count. Tommy's going to love these. These are going to fit with his customers. And yeah, you're right.

00:21:33:15 - 00:21:47:02
Speaker 1
If you're not, say, a Diageo, a Gallo of Bacardi, it's going to be very difficult to get on quota to get work with time to present at general sales meetings. So, yeah, thank you for that.

00:21:47:04 - 00:22:01:17
Speaker 2
And it goes it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, which is the struggle of the independent brand. If you can't get share of mine, Taylor, at the distributor level, then you can't get share mined mind at the retail level. Then you can't raise capital to.

00:22:01:17 - 00:22:03:15
Speaker 3
Keep it, right? Right, Exactly.

00:22:03:15 - 00:22:42:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, Totally equals up, down, left, right. And so it goes back to kind of what I tried to communicate earlier was you have to be an operating company. It can't just I mean, even heaven help you if you actually have physical assets like a distillery and where you've got people that need to run a pot still and come in every day and you're guessing that your production for the next quarter, heaven help you, it's much better to be an asset light brand right now with a marketing person and a CEO and a head of sales and go do what you do.

00:22:42:13 - 00:22:56:13
Speaker 2
And that's going to be, by the way, from a financial aspect. That's going to be the way going forward until it's not right, until you have enough revenue to build your physical asset plant, you're going to be outsourcing everything.

00:22:56:15 - 00:23:03:02
Speaker 1
And yeah, you should be investing in the right people, a winning team. But the right people for the.

00:23:03:02 - 00:23:04:12
Speaker 2
Present 100%.

00:23:04:14 - 00:23:22:00
Speaker 3
In my whole business that fell on my lap. It kind of started as a result of that, like a venture firm connected me honestly. Some founders four or five years ago when I had a full time job and said, Look like I didn't say this. And they say I give them too much credit for my business, that's fine.

00:23:22:05 - 00:23:40:21
Speaker 3
But in theory, I think what they were thinking is we don't want the companies and maybe, Brian, you could speak to this, I don't know the original concept for the business was like the connecting with all these founders. I think in the back of their minds, just building on this whole conversation was like, we've already put we've put money into these early stage businesses like we don't want to see them.

00:23:40:21 - 00:24:09:14
Speaker 3
Then hire all these agencies to do PR marketing social. Blah, blah. We don't know if they need every single executive. Taylor Since 19, has done some stops across most of these companies. Maybe she can help. And that's literally the model. Like, I don't I don't take on projects. I don't have like ha deliverables, but like I'm really focused on making sure that every week I meet with 70 CEOs for 30 minutes once a week all over the world.

00:24:09:14 - 00:24:23:22
Speaker 3
And all we do is just go through very mission critical parts of the company. Like I don't get into granular, but like, I know what are they what do they need to focus on in order not to fail? Like we need to talk to Brian. We need to raise $5 million. We have to talk to Gary about hiring.

00:24:23:22 - 00:24:47:17
Speaker 3
Like these are the things that we need to do. So all I'm responsible for literally outside of connecting people is making sure that they focus on those few things that they need to keep laser focused on. Right. But I do think going back to the staffing, I do think a big part of why this my business came to be was for that reason alone was like, we don't want these early stage companies to bring on 100 groups and vendors.

00:24:47:17 - 00:24:59:00
Speaker 3
We want to make sure that they, you know, are lean and mean. And I served a fairly unique little side purpose in the business. But anyway, it's an interesting topic around hiring and finding that right mix.

00:24:59:02 - 00:25:22:13
Speaker 2
So I think about our business that we're all very passionate about everyone on this call, very passionate about the adult beverage business, but just think about the business from an organic standpoint. And I at 53 years old, I've seen too much life at this point, and it's the only business I know of where you have to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into it before you sell your first can.

00:25:22:15 - 00:25:36:21
Speaker 2
Right? You've got to go through legal, you've got to go through compliance, you've got to go through packaging and formulation. You've got to go through logistics. You've got to hire an MSW or part street or you've got to travel around the country pitching investors and you even sold shit, nothing. You may not even have a product.

00:25:36:23 - 00:25:40:17
Speaker 3
So you don't look a day over 20, you don't look a day over 20.

00:25:40:19 - 00:26:13:03
Speaker 2
I am. I am about 6000. 6020. But thank you. But I do agree with you and Taylor. Thank you for that. But I will share with you that the business is so hard and so challenging to begin with. And then like from when we come in and it could be an abstract or invest before Sprout or one of the places where we enter the ecosystem for the brand and Taylor, you know this and guys you know this it's yeah, we've got $250,000 director of marketing.

00:26:13:05 - 00:26:36:19
Speaker 2
We've got a global head of sales when they when they're only selling in Minneapolis right then this is probably drives you nuts and we've got we've got this is our this is our h.R. Person or our professional or our regional manager. And you sold the thousand cases nationally. It's the founders need to really look at this as a hunt.

00:26:36:19 - 00:27:01:22
Speaker 2
What you kill kind of business until you're at the grocery store, right where everything is there. Every food is at your table. It is such a hard business. And the advice, Jesse, that we're putting out today or the commentary we're putting out today should be written down and stapled to your forehead founders, because this is this is really this are there's five people on the call that are saying, don't waste your money.

00:27:01:23 - 00:27:07:00
Speaker 2
Don't blow all your everything, every asset, your friends, you know.

00:27:07:02 - 00:27:07:23
Speaker 3
Yes.

00:27:08:01 - 00:27:28:18
Speaker 2
Start real lean, real light, outsource the whole world. Hire smartly. Gary, to your point, hire the right kind of people. Use the right strategy, right? Matt and Ben and and do. And then when you get to 10,000 cases, then you hire X. You know, it's amazing to me how this business is the hardest business I've ever been involved with.

00:27:28:18 - 00:27:35:04
Speaker 2
Yet there are people knocking down the door to get into it. It's really quite funny.

00:27:35:06 - 00:27:41:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, especially now, because I don't understand what's involved. No, not yet. Not yet.

00:27:41:02 - 00:28:04:01
Speaker 2
Why? Because they see a glass of wine. They go out to dinner on Christmas Eve and they'll see a glass of wine at every table in the restaurant and say, Why can't I do that? Or they'll go to a crowded bar on a Friday night in Midtown and they'll say, Jesus, everyone's got vodka. Let's make a vodka with no consideration that there's 600 vodkas registered in the USA and the shelf only holds 40 linear.

00:28:04:05 - 00:28:23:17
Speaker 2
You know, it's got 41 linear inches, right? So they don't think about that piece. They only think about it. All my friends are getting drunk. Let's make a beer. It's just. It's. It's lunacy to me. So the consiglieri on this call really should be advocates for the survival of these small guys. They have no idea what they're getting into.

00:28:23:17 - 00:28:27:20
Speaker 1
One spot on that there summed up the whole thing. Jesse I think what.

00:28:27:22 - 00:28:32:23
Speaker 2
Got Matt, you are next here.

00:28:32:23 - 00:28:42:22
Speaker 1
Your question is, were there any unexpected developments that diverged from what you thought were going to be your anticipated outcomes?

00:28:43:00 - 00:29:06:02
Speaker 2
You know, it's funny, when when I saw that question, I kind of laughed out loud because, you know, let's let's narrow it down to one or two because there's it's countless numbers. But for me, probably the biggest challenge or thing I realized for this year, and I have a feeling everyone on this call is going to.

00:29:06:02 - 00:29:27:07
Speaker 1
Feel feel some of this as well. When I said that we've kind of broken our industry, there's been a big shift from the days where you could take your brand. And Brian, I'm going to touch on probably some of the things you've brought up, right? You take your brand, your small, you get it out in front of the retailer and you've got something unique.

00:29:27:09 - 00:29:47:22
Speaker 1
You know, if and then you think, Hey, this retailer is kind of interested, great. You do some tastings or whatever, you start getting some buzz around it. That's exciting. Now you've got to find a wholesaler. In the old days that really wasn't that hard. You could have relationships. I've got a lot of relationships personally. Those are all thrown out the window.

00:29:48:00 - 00:30:09:19
Speaker 1
These wholesalers now are like, I'm not interested. You got to have the chains. I need you to have five key mandates in a chain. And I had a wholesaler in North Carolina do this to me like this earlier this year. It was we had the distributor agreement, everything ready to go. And then at the 11th hour, I had assigned the brand to them.

00:30:09:19 - 00:30:28:14
Speaker 1
Everything was great. I need five mandates. And I said, what we whether that's a pipe dream and who gets five mandates before you're even in the market. And it's it wasn't just a small chain here or there. This was I need Wal-Mart, I need Target, I need Publix. And we went down the list and I said, Well, that's simple.

00:30:28:16 - 00:30:49:18
Speaker 1
If I said if I had that, I wouldn't even need you. That we kind of laughed and kind of agreed, okay, fine, we will buy. But that has been the case time and time again, where a small brand, it is a struggle. And I think, Taylor, I'm going to I was reading something. You had an interview. You did.

00:30:49:18 - 00:31:11:12
Speaker 1
I'm not sure exactly when, but I believe you hit on it perfectly that you can go into some of these big distributors, like a Southern or an R&D sea or something like that and think, my problems are solved. Yeah, but you might be 85th down the list of priorities when it comes to an RTD or a canned beverage, an FMB, whatever you want to call it.

00:31:11:14 - 00:31:37:07
Speaker 1
And I've lived that as well. And it's that's not necessarily the right option. So my biggest for this year is the old ways of you've got a great brand, you're excited about it. People seem to be excited about it. Super. That does not mean you're going to get the wholesalers on board with you and that does not mean you're going to get the retailer to come on board because now the chains have gotten to the point.

00:31:37:09 - 00:31:56:09
Speaker 1
There are so many brands and suppliers, they're saying, Yup, I think your brand is great, but you can't formally present to me. Your distributor has to present like, Well, I don't have a distributor. While once you do have them present and then we'll be good, you go to the distributor and say, Hey, could we kind of early, partner?

00:31:56:11 - 00:32:21:00
Speaker 1
You present to them, they're interested, and the distributor ends up not doing it. So now you've lost that chain interest and you don't have a distributor and now you're not going into that market. So that has been a really big challenge. And I talked to a lot of different people, a lot of brands. It's the same thing time and time again where I don't know what the key answer is because some chains are still willing to take a chance.

00:32:21:00 - 00:32:40:08
Speaker 1
Even if you don't have the wholesaler yet, assuming you'll get one. Others forget it. You you're dead in the water before you even get started. And that really makes it tough for the little brands to even get noticed and to gain any kind of traction in the market. And I don't know if anybody disagrees, but I'd love to hear.

00:32:40:09 - 00:33:04:22
Speaker 2
No, I think I agree. But but there are ways, Matt, there are ways around those things. And the little guy is funny and we all can probably relate to this. You know, people come all the time into our world and say, I want to be in Costco, right? I want to be in total Publix plasma or whatever. And the way we would share it at our companies, our goal with the three people first and here's why.

00:33:05:00 - 00:33:21:19
Speaker 2
So whether it's an MH W or Park Street, whatever. Go with one of those first, and here's why. Because you can control your expenses. They're costly. They're not. They're cost prohibitive for sure, because you pay for storage and you pay for logistics and delivery and all of those things, and you have to pay for a salesperson and whatever.

00:33:21:21 - 00:33:43:12
Speaker 2
But you can set your own margin, right? And you can put your brand on the shelf at the price you want it to be on the R&D and the breakthroughs in the car and the Southerners of the world. Let's say they take your brand, your new brand. Let's say they're doing you a favor, Matt, because you went to the you went to sleepover camp, Gary with the son of the founder of the cousin of Soap.

00:33:43:14 - 00:34:00:10
Speaker 2
Right. And you can do all those things, but they're going to put 45 points on your brand for the effort. Right? They're going to they're going to take your house will be landed. They're going to have 45 points because no one knows what the hell you are you're selling and you're going to when it hits the shelf. Finally, it's going to be three times what it should be.

00:34:00:12 - 00:34:26:18
Speaker 2
It's going to die there. Then you're going to get delisted, etc.. And then your brand is ruined in the market. Those are all real things. So what I like to say is as a market point of entry, and this is to your point is go with one of the three piles, get on the shelf, get 100 pods, get 100 points of distribution, and then go to the wholesaler and say, look, I'm going to de-risk this transaction for you.

00:34:26:20 - 00:34:43:21
Speaker 2
I'm going to say, here's 100 applications that are waiting for you. If you take my brand, take 100 cases from me, put me in the network, and I will rinse and repeat this all over the country where your distribution footprint is. I don't want 17 states at once Southern because I can barely afford to keep my one state open.

00:34:43:23 - 00:35:07:00
Speaker 2
If you put me in 17 states, you're going to delist me in a quarter. We don't want that. I know you have to do that because that makes it more economical for you. But let's have a realistic conversation. Let's go to New York, New Jersey, California, Florida, Illinois. First strike good active markets. Let me work those markets. And then from there, let's talk about the pods derisking the proposition.

00:35:07:02 - 00:35:27:17
Speaker 2
And so then, Matt, the conversation of five mandates becomes an easier conversation because you can say, look, I'm in the I'm saturating the independent channel and the change channel should have the same kind of success. Let's be partners on this big distributor. You get the mandates with me. Let's do it together and we can prove this. All right.

00:35:27:19 - 00:35:46:21
Speaker 2
So I just the whole system is set up. The one person who gets hosed the most is the brand. You know, no one else gets hosed in the whole transaction, but the brand, the brand's got to get smarter about how they go to market, what resources they put in the market. And to your point, you get that mandate question.

00:35:46:23 - 00:35:58:10
Speaker 2
There's no way. There's no way you're getting minutes and you're not. And chains are buying shit until third quarter 2024 right now. Know and that purchases for first quarter 2025.

00:35:58:12 - 00:36:02:22
Speaker 1
You're spot on. Yep. Great points. Brian Absolutely.

00:36:03:00 - 00:36:29:22
Speaker 3
Yeah. Matt I mean, what you had just said, it's the chicken or the egg scenario and you know, an industry buddy of mine has taken over as the head of sales for TV and he was venting to me about what the hell am I supposed to do? The distributors aren't taking us in. They say, Well, if you can show us that you've got market presence, you've got traction.

00:36:29:22 - 00:36:56:01
Speaker 3
Exactly. Exactly right. This is their show, Right? And in wondering what to do, I think Brian three m approach is one that I suggest a lot because you know. Yeah. Thinking you've got 46 markets at southern Glazer's is a victory. What's your sell through. Yeah, right. So and what had happened in the instance of my friend was.

00:36:56:01 - 00:37:32:13
Speaker 1
E-commerce, although down almost 5% this year. Digital and e-commerce became a big focus to get brand recognition online with consumers. And at the WSW air conference back in April. They've won several medals and were approached by some distributors. But that's not always going to happen. So it is frustrating. But yeah, I mean, Brian, New York, New Jersey, Florida and then California.

00:37:32:13 - 00:37:54:06
Speaker 1
Great. I always say go an inch wide and a mile deep and then analyze the the behavior and the results and what works. You can then copy and paste into newer markets as you have the resources that allow you to expand at the right time.

00:37:54:06 - 00:38:09:21
Speaker 1
Okay. We're going to move on to the next question. Taylor, you are up. What valuable insight did you gain in 2023 and how can it inform and benefit your strategies in 2024?

00:38:09:23 - 00:38:41:01
Speaker 2
So I don't have any strategies of my own to work with. People who have strategies I hope would be an issue if they didn't know. I mean, the bigger sense, I think for me is just on this is kind of like a macro thought is just to find the whitespace, you know, like I think thing we're all kind of seeing the same thing around the saturation in and like look versus chicken or the egg and all those things just add another layer to it is, you know, a lot of people kind of come to it.

00:38:41:02 - 00:39:00:20
Speaker 2
I think I would say this group, more broadly speaking, I want to speak on everyone's behalf, like virtually saying like, how do I sell my business? My name is Mary. I have moonshine. I'm based in Idaho. My business is worth $35 million. I've sold five of them and I won't desire to buy them. Tomorrow is like, okay, I want a lot of things.

00:39:00:20 - 00:39:19:05
Speaker 2
I would love a house in the Hamptons, but I don't have it. So with that being said, though, I think everyone gets tripped up. And Brian, I'd love your thoughts on this, you and everyone else. Like if anyone else has any thoughts. But like even early, early stage companies get so lost in the granular is of like, what do I have to you know, what metrics do I have to reach to sell my business?

00:39:19:05 - 00:39:40:02
Speaker 2
And you're like, you're barely in a market like you. No one's even tried your product in your Home Depot. Like, why are you already thinking about this? And I get it. But the point the matter is, is like I always try to instill versus thinking about like what exactly. And that's where like Brian comes in, like kilt, Lord knows you will tell you exactly what you need to do on a very granular level to get to the next phase in the next phase, Next phase.

00:39:40:03 - 00:40:01:16
Speaker 2
But I think if we take a step back where I come in and what like a bigger insight that I've kind of come to realize is it's really about finding your unique value proposition in this market. And it's always been something that I've advocated for, is like finding out what's unique about you. And it's not necessarily like, you know, okay, well, I make the best vodka from the best.

00:40:01:16 - 00:40:23:18
Speaker 2
Well, that's what it's really, really, really taking yourself out of the equation, like and being like, that's not enough. And pushing yourself as a founder even further to really think about, like, what is unique about what you're doing. And when you think about how do you fit into an investment portfolio, how do you fit into a distribution portfolio, How do you fit into a corporation that you may want to be bought by?

00:40:23:20 - 00:40:42:10
Speaker 2
How do you fit in and how do you find that whitespace and really, really, really trying to own that to the best of your ability, I think is just a bigger insight that I've come to realize. I think because you do see companies that are earlier stage that sometimes do get by and it's not always about just how many cases you've sold.

00:40:42:16 - 00:40:55:16
Speaker 2
It's really about the relationships that these people have fostered with some of these groups, but also finding an area that's honorable to that. And I think if people can think about that, I think there is more of a chance for them to succeed.

00:40:55:18 - 00:41:30:09
Speaker 3
It's funny, Taylor, you know, we when we buy a company or invest in a company, we like to see the hole they're filling within the marketplace. And to your point, it's not about 10,000 cases. And then look for an M&A team. You look at like prestige, where you look at like alone. And these big companies, like we are in the process of a transaction right now with both of those companies and the way that transaction happened was the brand that they are considering buying is not necessarily a homerun, but it fills a hole in their portfolio.

00:41:30:11 - 00:42:10:21
Speaker 3
And so it's not always about get to 10,000 cases or get to profitability. It's not it's about what Taylor Shane is doing, The hole in their portfolio. They may have a WB mandate woman business, women business. They may have a minority business, right? Right. And so that's something to think about as well. And one thing I would this team is industry insiders, the people on this call and every day last year at this time for the last four from the fourth quarter starting two New Year's Eve, I would get a mark Brown or a Wine and Spirit Daily or a wine industry advisor and every day would be a notice guys and gals on an

00:42:10:21 - 00:42:13:17
Speaker 3
M&A transaction. You recall last year.

00:42:13:18 - 00:42:15:17
Speaker 2
It was crazy.

00:42:15:19 - 00:42:35:11
Speaker 3
Okay, now let's look at this year's emails. Nothing in there. Last year, once or twice a week we would get a notice on so-and-so is buying so-and-so. These two companies are merging. This distributor is rolling up three small distributors. That was every day in the fourth quarter and it's been every day in the fourth quarter for three years.

00:42:35:13 - 00:42:59:11
Speaker 3
This year there's been bupkis. There's been nothing, nothing. So what does that tell you? US collectively? And the greater good is that there's no roll ups, there is no M&A activity, there is no capital investing, although we're about to announce a deal today. But there is no capital investing going on out there. And so you have to have a brand.

00:42:59:11 - 00:43:21:08
Speaker 3
And to your point, you've got a brand, the of a brand that fills a hole because you drink vodka doesn't mean and you make a vodka for yourself doesn't mean that's a vodka for everyone. I mean, it's a vodka for one, right? So I think that look, I'm a little bit monopolizing and I'm sorry, but but I. Taylor am in your camp totally about.

00:43:21:13 - 00:43:43:16
Speaker 3
It's not just about the number of cases or the revenue. It's about how do you fill a fall. It's about a greater good that you may not even know about, that the parent company that that that LVMH needs Moet Hennessy to fill a void in their portfolio. There's nothing to do with anything other than filling a void because the shareholders want the portfolio filled.

00:43:43:18 - 00:44:13:14
Speaker 3
And so you can have a shitty brand that's not doing anything that can be acquired for 11 acts if you know where that hole is. So when we enter brands as far as investing or buying, we're always looking three years ahead of what we're as a whole in the market and who's going to buy us. And I, in the brands that you're counseling with and all of us are kind of consiglieri towards those brands really need to not only look at right in front of them, right in front of the nose, then look right in front of the windshield as well.

00:44:13:14 - 00:44:20:11
Speaker 3
And then look at the next off ramp as well. Those are all things that have to happen when you're building a brand.

00:44:20:13 - 00:44:54:00
Speaker 4
And Brian, also going back to earlier, you had said, you know, people are at a restaurant, a bar, and they say, man, look at that cool vodka bottle. I can't I, I think a lot of people have entered the the alcoholic beverage space or SKUs who are very successful in their own right, but being extremely successful in a different industry doesn't exactly translate into a whole three tier system.

00:44:54:00 - 00:45:20:08
Speaker 4
It's nuanced. The compliance and out there you see the sexiness of casamigos and these is big numbers associated with acquisition. What the general population doesn't see is the amount of carnage. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:20:10 - 00:45:24:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. How do you how do you make $1,000,000 in the booze business? You start with 10 million.

00:45:24:19 - 00:45:27:09
Speaker 4
See, that's exactly it. Yeah.

00:45:27:11 - 00:45:49:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. And they don't see it. Like to your point and look, we all work with the same kind of brands. We all know the same people. It's, it's going to I'm in Miami, going to the beach and being like, Hey, everyone's drinking tequila. I'm going to start a tequila is baloney, right? Because they're not they're drinking and they're drinking 100%.

00:45:49:16 - 00:46:06:15
Speaker 3
BLANCO And there's Margarita culture. And you want to make a reference to only here when you have to wait eight years to do it. You know that there needs to be a macro look like like, you know, like I'm back in the day when I was a kid, there was what Motorcycles Guide to the Galaxy. Was that a book?

00:46:06:17 - 00:46:19:08
Speaker 3
Right. There needs to be like a which we kind of all are collectively doing a how to not get hosed by the industry manual, you know, And it should be everyone should have a chapter here.

00:46:20:22 - 00:46:31:18
Speaker 1
You have to be really careful who you listen to, because a lot of people are living in the past and they haven't kept up at the time. So if you listen to the wrong person, you're going to be headed for disaster.

00:46:31:18 - 00:46:42:06
Speaker 1
We need to quickly move on to our final and last question here been what does the adult beverage industry need to stop doing immediately, in your opinion?

00:46:42:06 - 00:46:49:01
Speaker 1
Well, listen to this podcast. That would be well, that wouldn't be. Stop doing it. But we've touched on all of these things, and I have a long list.

00:46:49:01 - 00:46:51:13
Speaker 1
Almost out of time. I'll keep it to three.

00:46:51:13 - 00:47:14:05
Speaker 1
So three things. Quick thing, just one. And the first one we've already kind of talked about, but stop expecting that distributors can sell for you. Those days are long gone. Too many brands. We're talking tens of thousands of brands. I have a quick anecdote. One of my clients has been selling 100,000 cases of wine a year through one of the big distributors.

00:47:14:05 - 00:47:37:08
Speaker 1
He wants to launch a new brand in 2024 and they won't take it on. And he's like, Well, what do you mean, we're already partners, We're already doing business. Like we don't need another brand. So people need to stop their expectations that distributors are going to sell for you. And related to that is stop thinking that you could hire someone who could better manage the distributor.

00:47:37:08 - 00:47:57:20
Speaker 1
It doesn't matter how tight your relationships are or what kind of access you have to the top executives, they're just not capable of too many brands. So that's the first thing, is just recalibrating expectations of what a distributor can do for you and stop trying to manage it. I look at and Gary, you can confirm this, I look at job ads and I see the qualifications.

00:47:57:20 - 00:48:17:15
Speaker 1
They're looking for salespeople, and it says things like manage the distributor, motivate the distributor, educate this firm. Like what planet are you living on? No matter how well you do that, they still can't sell for you. The second thing, and this is a particular personal beef of mine, our industry is so far behind other consumer products in the way that we sell.

00:48:17:16 - 00:48:35:01
Speaker 1
We're selling in a style that was popular in the 1950s, and I'm talking about features and benefits selling. I pulled this bottle. I'm going to tell you how it was made, where the grapes were grown, who made it. I love the, you know, the barrel regiment. If I tell you enough about this product, you're going to be convinced to buy it.

00:48:35:03 - 00:48:58:01
Speaker 1
It's just so silly. That is not how products are sold. Read Daniel Pink. You know how to sell as human. Read some books about how people buy read Building a story brand. So this has got to stop this selling features and benefits selling because the truth is having a great product and a great package, a great price. All that does is get you to the starting line.

00:48:58:03 - 00:49:22:08
Speaker 1
Those things don't differentiate you from the from the broad selection. So you get give that up and God forbid you got to sit there in front of a cold violation with no no relationship. And you start talking about the qualities of your product, how it tastes. You're dead. You're absolutely dead. And then the third thing I would say to stop doing is and it's not necessarily stop it, but reduce it greatly.

00:49:22:10 - 00:49:45:09
Speaker 1
There are certain things that we do to sell in our industry that cannot be scaled. I have nothing against inserts. Racing's very, very powerful, but it can't be scaled. Distributed work lists can't be scaled, general sales to major distributor. Anything that evolves the physical presence of a human being cannot be scaled. The good news is there's many, many things you can do that can be scaled digitally.

00:49:45:09 - 00:50:09:12
Speaker 1
Generation, you know, not building an audience on rented land like your social media. AUDIENCE Yeah, that's important. But your email list is audible to you and can't be taken away. And your email list is infinitely scalable. I look at people's websites and they're doing nothing to convert that website visitors to email subscribers. All they're doing at email is sending out monthly newsletters, which no one reads or cares about.

00:50:09:12 - 00:50:31:07
Speaker 1
That's a relic from the nineties in the early days of email marketing, understanding what can be scaled and how to do it really well. That's going to get you a lot farther than these things that require a plane ticket or, you know, some kind of physical event. So I just think that people need to wake up. Everything we've already talked about today is so, so relevant.

00:50:31:07 - 00:51:01:01
Speaker 1
But I love this question because the things we need to stop doing are just as important as the things you should be doing instead. The problem is people don't know what to do instead, and that that is a big a big problem. I get fired up about this topic because people are not keeping up with the times. They don't really understand marketing of adult beverages, don't really understand what motivates people to buy.

00:51:01:03 - 00:51:16:22
Speaker 1
And so it's a big problem. I think there's going to be and Brian, you may have mentioned this is going to be a great separation in these coming years about people who get this and adjust accordingly, control their own destiny more, and people who don't. So, you.

00:51:16:22 - 00:51:44:18
Speaker 2
Know, it's been you're right on. I will just share one thing and then I unfortunately have to f the heart out. The selling is about selling to the people in the language they speak. Right. If you're a retailer is cared about gross margin, margin dollars, SKU velocity, that's how you sell. You're not going to sell a guy on the end of the song and the slope and the amount of rainy days for the terror.

00:51:44:20 - 00:52:03:01
Speaker 2
No one gives a shit. The guy wants to know. And there's three different messages, right? The retailer wants to know. Yeah, they want to know how quickly can I get rid of it and how quickly they turn that into cash. The distributor wants to know. I don't want to get stuck with this before the. Before the money comes in.

00:52:03:01 - 00:52:23:20
Speaker 2
Right before we have to do a delisting. And the supplier wants to know, how can I sell the most at the most money? Three different audiences, three different messages. And oftentimes, Ben, to your point, the the salesperson is selling in a language that the retailer does not care about. What the retailer cares about is payroll is every other Friday.

00:52:23:22 - 00:52:54:07
Speaker 2
And how quickly can I turn this case of wine for $300 into $390 in cash that I can then pay payroll on the subsequent Friday? And if you go into the account with that thought process, selling to the retailer in their own language, you have a much greater likelihood of success. But to your point, then there's a day of reckoning come in where there's going to be a cleansing of brands and the people that are in it for hobbies are going to go back to their hobby.

00:52:54:09 - 00:52:58:16
Speaker 2
And the people that are in it for business are and have to run a business.

00:52:58:18 - 00:53:00:13
Speaker 1
All set.

00:53:00:14 - 00:53:07:02
Speaker 3
Brian No, that's okay. Anybody else want to comment on this topic?

00:53:07:06 - 00:53:40:11
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. Ben I do agree with you that things have changed. Some people are living in the past. However, pre-pandemic our industry really hadn't changed for 100 years. Prohibition, repeal of prohibition 100 years and then the pandemic. I do believe, you know, I think we can all agree that we can all agree that having presence or feet on the street and each market is important.

00:53:40:15 - 00:54:09:10
Speaker 4
And I do believe that in-store demos and tastings can still be effective. I think work with and presenting at general sales meetings are something that brands still need to do, but also that's where it goes back to strategic hiring. You know, when I worked for a distributor, a regional sales manager didn't necessarily have to roll up their sleeves and get their hands as dirty as they do now.

00:54:09:12 - 00:54:49:04
Speaker 4
They had area sales managers, market managers, etc., underneath them as far as an organization staying lean but succeeding. I believe that it's it's about having someone I mean, even if your brand let's say you're nationwide split the country into six have a regional sales manager in each of those segments roles the responsibilities of roles have changed. You know, I do agree things have changed an incredible amount.

00:54:49:06 - 00:55:19:11
Speaker 4
And I think that that can be adapted to or the change made a little bit more digestible in saying that the roles of particular positions and titles have changed. But it is liquid to lips, you know, that's what will lead to sales and I think in-store demos, tastings at general sales meetings, etc., still still carry value.

00:55:19:11 - 00:55:24:17
Speaker 1
We could probably go on all day with the Jesse, how are we doing on time now? We we've lost a couple of folks.

00:55:24:19 - 00:55:38:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, we are at the turn of the hour so we can wrap it up here. Do you guys want to answer, you know, your guidance and recommendations for 2024 with and pick your pick your audience that you want to talk to?

00:55:38:11 - 00:55:42:08
Speaker 1
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

00:55:42:09 - 00:55:43:23
Speaker 2
Go ahead, Gary.

00:55:44:01 - 00:56:19:22
Speaker 1
You know, touching upon, you know, the discussion earlier. And, you know, also throughout this discussion, I encourage every organization to have a hiring approach that makes sense for them, build an internal assessment process to decide whether you should fill a role internally. And when investing in a search firm is is actually crucially important to do. And every organization needs to do their due diligence.

00:56:19:22 - 00:57:02:22
Speaker 1
Again, looking inside and, you know, doing a self assessment, do your due diligence in your needs and finding the best partner work, whether it's hiring internal to or it's partnering with a search firm to make strategic hires. Candidates should not just look good on paper. They need to match the company's values as well as its goals. So, you know, using the buzz word for the 400th time strategic hiring and I believe that means somewhat of an investment inside in your approach.

00:57:02:22 - 00:57:08:01
Speaker 1
All right. Well said. Who wants to go? Next matter, Ben.

00:57:08:03 - 00:57:41:17
Speaker 2
Go ahead, Bill. So we're talking about guidance or recommendations for 2024. And you had mentioned in the notes that we could address specific cohort of the audience. And for me, my clients are small distilleries and small wineries, and I have many clients who sell everything they make profitably with no salespeople, no plane tickets, no and no distributors. So my advice is to to understand, to take the time to learn about how these people are doing that.

00:57:41:19 - 00:58:04:10
Speaker 2
And I will give you a hint. A lot of it has to do with being able to access your consumers directly. An email is the best way to do that, but also access train buyers directly. I think email is underutilized because most people think newsletters when they hear the word email, they don't really understand modern email marketing in the way that other consumer product categories do.

00:58:04:12 - 00:58:31:18
Speaker 2
So my best guidance for 2024 is to learn how to use modern email strategy, inbound marketing and digital touchpoints. It has the power to transform your sales revenue without having to add headcount. And I have nothing, nothing against hiring people like I do recruiting too. But for small startup brands, get as far as you can digitally before you start adding headcount.

00:58:31:20 - 00:58:49:13
Speaker 2
And if you don't know what that looks like you need, there's plenty of information out there. And the best place to look is, you know, other consumer product categories or leveraging email in a powerful way. And one last thing to add on, and that's SMS messaging. I predict that's going to be really huge for our industry. I'm already seeing it.

00:58:49:13 - 00:58:58:21
Speaker 2
I've subscribed to a lot of brands, text messaging service, so I can study what they're doing, how they're doing it, the frequency. So I'm really bullish on that.

00:58:58:23 - 00:58:59:14
Speaker 1
Interesting.

00:58:59:14 - 00:59:01:22
Speaker 1
Matt.

00:59:02:00 - 00:59:27:21
Speaker 2
My advice would be, if you're a new brand starting out, decide or try to figure out early on what it is you want to be when you grow up. There are different strategies on how to do this. Do you want to be a brand that each year you you go into a market and grow that and then the next year you do it again and the next year you do it again and build out that base.

00:59:27:23 - 01:00:00:13
Speaker 2
That's great. That's one model is your model. You want to go broad very quickly and it is far out as possible to be ripe for acquisition. What is it you want to do? Because the strategies are completely different. And then with that, you're going to it will help you then understand what it is from a capital standpoint. You're going to need to do that because if you only have $100,000 in the bank, let's say, and you want to go into 15 states, you're not going to be able to do it.

01:00:00:15 - 01:00:21:13
Speaker 2
But if you have 100 in the bank and you want to start in your community and start branching out from there, maybe hire a few people, kind of do that type of thing, the grassroots, then you can probably make a go of it. But it could be a ten year process to get you to that point that you can either sell your brand or kind of move on to something different.

01:00:21:15 - 01:00:43:17
Speaker 2
So just my advice would be, and I tell people this all the time, figure it out, What do you want to be? And and then put that plan together and go for it, but be ready to pivot multiple times because you're going to be blindsided by some some interesting things along the way. That's it. Yeah.

01:00:43:18 - 01:01:09:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's interesting. Pivoting and changing when you mentioned earlier and I really wanted to dig into it, but we had so many other questions to move on to. So Matt, maybe you can jump on again later in the year and we can, we can talk about that in in Ben while SMS messaging is not something I expected our industry to get to get on board with so fast, actually.

01:01:09:20 - 01:01:32:14
Speaker 1
So I want to follow them too and see what they're doing because that's fascinating to me. And I guess, you know, when you think of SMS messaging direct to consumers works a lot better, I guess, than probably B to B to B just because I mean, Talbots, for example, I think I get I think I get a semester messages message from them every single day on 20% off 50% of shipping.

01:01:32:14 - 01:01:43:10
Speaker 1
So, you know, I guess in that regard, it does make a lot of sense. So I'm excited for that. I think that there's there's proof and analytics behind the success of similar messaging.

01:01:43:10 - 01:02:02:21
Speaker 1
And if you're getting a text from a friend every single day, they're doing it wrong. it's all right. Like everything else, the right way and a wrong way. But for a small brand, this is a game changer if they do it right. And remember, people are opting in to this service. It's not an outbound activity. It's really inbound activity.

01:02:02:23 - 01:02:11:22
Speaker 1
They're voluntarily signing up to receive your texts. And if you don't abuse them, it could be a fantastic new sales channel. It's 100% controllable by you.

01:02:11:22 - 01:02:27:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's great. Well, I do have one little surprise question for you guys. If you if you've got a few minutes, it's just it's it's a one word question. And if you could summarize, 2024 in one word, what would it be?

01:02:27:09 - 01:02:43:20
Speaker 1
I'll tell you mine the first word. This. This happened on my mentor call this Sunday. We were just chit chatting about something and I'm like, my gosh, this is a fun. Like, this word came to mind of 2024. And for me, that's community because I think.

01:02:43:20 - 01:03:13:10
Speaker 1
Social media is always going to exist. It's always going to be there, but people are going to get burned out. People are picking one channel over the other and sticking to one channel instead of trying to be everywhere. And I think there's been proof on the consumer side, the direct to consumer side, the community is the future. I think building communities and, you know, whether it be a brand to people is going to be a very effective way to connect with their consumers on a more personal level.

01:03:13:12 - 01:03:40:15
Speaker 1
And you can kind of talk to them about the brand, but also build a community around that and ask questions and survey and offer them discounts and whatnot. So I think to me, that's what I'm seeing as a real potential in the future, whether it's 2024 or 2025 and beyond. It'll take a while to get there. But that's that's my community.

01:03:40:15 - 01:03:45:09
Speaker 1
So you're asking, Jessie, a word for 2023 or a word for 2024?

01:03:45:09 - 01:03:46:12
Speaker 2
2024?

01:03:46:14 - 01:03:51:15
Speaker 1
Okay. Because I've got one for 2023. I may not be able to say it on the podcast, but.

01:03:51:17 - 01:03:54:00
Speaker 2
You can say this is not made for children.

01:03:54:02 - 01:04:17:17
Speaker 1
No, no, no. Actually, I would say 2023. The one word is wild. It has been a roller coaster. Lots of excitement, a lot of craziness. A lot of frustration. Right. I mean, it's it's, I think, wild. But I think in 2024, the word that I would pick is fun. When you can relate to this, right. We've been in this business for a long time.

01:04:17:19 - 01:04:37:21
Speaker 1
We are people always flocked to this business because it was fun. This is what we. And a lot of times we've had a strip of fun out of the business. I feel like we're going to start shifting back again. We're going to start finding ways to make this fun again. And and the reason we all do it. I still have fun.

01:04:37:22 - 01:04:53:03
Speaker 1
I still enjoy the heck out of it. It's why I do it. I did have more hair years ago. But, you know, again, it's either my children or this job. But I do think it's we're going to start introducing a lot more fun back into back into this business again.

01:04:53:05 - 01:04:53:22
Speaker 2
I like that.

01:04:53:22 - 01:05:33:13
Speaker 1
If I've got to choose one word to describe 2024. If I had a crystal ball, I guess I would go with optimism. You know, since March of 2020, there's been so, so much change and newness and lack of predictability and, you know, as we discussed on the podcast today, you know, Bryan said some of the brands that aren't taking it seriously or doing it right are going to disappear.

01:05:33:15 - 01:06:04:01
Speaker 1
And I am hoping that 2024 is going to bring some normalcy back to our industry. You know, the growth, the trajectory. Life in general. But I'm very optimistic, especially now that, you know, it was it was Dickens who said it was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Right. I'm really proud that I read Dr. Seuss primarily.

01:06:04:01 - 01:06:50:23
Speaker 1
So hope that will help. But we've seen the business. Absolutely. Boom. We've experienced 2023 where almost every organization has has failed to hit goals because, you know, we didn't predict what would happen. We couldn't see. So I'm optimistic that having seen, you know, the entire spectrum of how our industry reacts and also, you know, adapts to, you know, changing landscape, I'm very optimistic that 2024 is going to be a solid year, realistic growth, and I'll use that buzzword.

01:06:51:03 - 01:06:57:23
Speaker 1
One final time, a strategic approach to brand building and an industry prosperity.

01:06:57:23 - 01:06:59:05
Speaker 1
Well said.

01:06:59:05 - 01:07:29:06
Speaker 1
So my word would be inbound. I'm all about inbound marketing. My wish. Everyone in the industry is to learn what it is, how to execute it, how can benefit you. I think there's too much outbound interrupted, unsolicited activity. Learn how to attract people to you and enroll to your cause. Build your own audience. Not on rented land, but on your own land.

01:07:29:08 - 01:07:40:11
Speaker 1
And I just think that could be a real difference maker for big brands, medium size brands and small brands. I'm all about inbound marketing.

01:07:40:13 - 01:08:01:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, that certainly is a great, great advice. And I know you when we started talking, that was kind of exactly what your advice was to try to get to the inbound place. And it's certainly been in the back of my mind for the last year on how do I get there? How does it work? What does it look like for me?

01:08:01:21 - 01:08:25:06
Speaker 2
I don't have a brand. I have a service. So how does that look like for me to help get to that place? And so I'm hoping I've found it. And next year it'll it'll work for me. So inbound is a good word for me, too. I love having fun. So, you know, I'm looking forward to having fun. I think a lot of people that get in the industry think that it's just all about fun.

01:08:25:08 - 01:08:51:07
Speaker 2
But what they don't realize is how how hard it is and how hard we work to actually earn that fun in the industry. But it is a great industry, but it is a tough one. As you've all heard and felt throughout your all your own careers. So is there any final words, anybody, anything, anything that we haven't said yet today in closing?

01:08:51:07 - 01:08:51:18
Unknown
All righty.

01:08:51:18 - 01:09:11:16
Speaker 1
I appreciate you all coming on this this roundtable. I was super excited about it. Please let me know your thoughts. I'd love to potentially continue this in some format or some way. I will use this. I will be going to every other week on my full podcast and I will use this as a special segment.

01:09:11:16 - 01:09:15:15
Speaker 1
So anyway, thank you for all your support this year and coming on my podcast and.

01:09:15:21 - 01:09:17:21
Speaker 2
Coming back on the address.

01:09:17:23 - 01:09:18:16
Speaker 3
Yes, absolutely.

01:09:18:16 - 01:09:21:07
Speaker 2
Juicy. Thank you. Happy holidays, everybody.

01:09:21:09 - 01:09:34:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, happy holidays. And thank you, guys. This is a really, really fun conversation to have and agree to See you again, Ben, to chat with you. You know, Brian and Taylor, this was a lot of fun. Thank you.

01:09:34:09 - 01:09:40:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, Thank you all. Agreed. Thanks, everybody. Take care. Next year. Bye bye.

01:09:40:04 - 01:09:43:16
Speaker 1
Tune in next Thursday and have a great week.

01:09:44:01 - 01:09:49:23
Jessie
This week's episode was Produced by Fedora J Productions.